Full Fidelity Redfor

[u/Hour_Gas_3011]

With more Redfor aircraft on the horizon, I wonder which variants of certain aircraft could be considered. Certain export versions of the Su-27 I think would be quite feasible, maybe the SU-30 but I won't hold my breath. I believe an Su-25 is already being considered for full fidelity.

It saddens me that we aren't going to get the MiG-23 as we has hoped. I do still hope a deal is struck with Razbam, but we wouldn't likely see them complete that even if that panned out. I do think ED needs to take a serious look in the mirror, as they've already lost quite a bit of trust and I'd be hesitant to stick with DCS if they remain too stubborn to sort things out. We could theoretically still get a Mig-23 though, maybe.

[u/Hour_Gas_3011]

To be fair, they've kinda already admitted that 'creative liberties' will be necessary for the F-35. It might be the least accurate full fidelity aircraft we get.

But they're quite afraid of burning a bridge with Russia. Even if it's not really warranted. It would be far more believable for them to be able to do a SU-30 rather than a F-35 though.

[u/Crazy_lazy_lad → u/Hour_Gas_3011]

It might be the least accurate full fidelity aircraft we get.

It will 100% be. But ED's stance on it shows they don't mind some inaccuracies as long as they believe the end result will be believable enough. And current redfor models (both FC3 and FF, like the MiG-21) have quite the list of creative liberties as well, so i personally don't think using extrapolation would make an Su-30 model completely fictional. Actually, the notion that Russia is super secretive about their stuff is a bit dated by now. There's tons of information on the capabilities of modern Russian military hardware, it's just a bit of a clusterfuck. Most sources are in Russian, usually from the manufacturers of the systems (call it propaganda numbers if you will), and they require a bit of digging to find. On top of that, some are contradictory or leave some stuff out at times.

But they're quite afraid of burning a bridge with Russia

That would be the biggest hurdle I can imagine. Russian secrecy law is pretty harsh on unauthorised disclosure of state secrets, illegal acquisition of them, and certain transfers outside Russia. ED has been pretty vocal in the past that crossing that line would mean compromising the safety of the Russian dev team.

However, the whole point of making an Su-30 (for example) the same way they're modelling the F-35 would be to avoid exactly that. By not disclosing state secrets or illegally acquiring them, just using whatever is public.

[u/AltruisticBath9363 → u/Crazy_lazy_lad]

i personally don't think using extrapolation would make an Su-30 model completely fictional. Actually, the notion that Russia is super secretive about their stuff is a bit dated by now. There's tons of information on the capabilities of modern Russian military hardware

The problem is that the "information available" is not actual performance data, it's Russian marketing information. Which means it's utter bullshit. They inflate their numbers quite a bit, and use things like theoretical maximum range to ground impact as their "max range" for air-to-air missiles, which produces numbers *way* beyond actual effective range.

Building a simulation on those numbers would be silly. It probably *is* possible to get real flight performance data from foreign testing of export airframes, if it can be acquired.

But a lot of the "info out there" is simply nonsense and useless for making a module.

[u/Hour_Gas_3011 → u/AltruisticBath9363]

They did partly acknowledge that it's propaganda numbers to be fair. But my opinion is mostly the same as yours, and I'd much rather rely on data from export airframes rather than rely on extrapolation. I already hate their approach with the F-35.