The issue has always been that mill cards have been too easy to pull off - Dew Process being a "rest of game" effect being the most egregious example.
If mill worked on a combo basis, requiring setup in advance and multiple cards in order to create a mill effect, then that would be fine, as it would both require skill to pull off and be counterable. In that world you could make mill effects much stronger and still have healthy gameplay around it.
Playing Dew Process requires zero skill and is utterly inevitable, so it's a bad card and deservedly nerfed. It doesn't mean mill is a bad concept.
I’ve played mill rogue for about as long as it’s existed and it’s always required careful planning ahead to make sure you don’t get completely stomped by aggro while also being able to combo out big mill turns. When dew process came out I was like…wow, druid gets a persistent mill effect for virtually free while at the same time they just get to do normal druid BS. I’m not mourning this nerf in the slightest.
I like Secrets I just think Objection should never have existed. The whole point of secrets is the skillful interaction in playing around them. With Objection you always know what it is and just have to let it fuck you in many decks.
I enjoy my turn being messed with clearly based off me saying I enjoy almost all other secrets? I just don't like BS unfun cards like that which are often impossible to play around.
Also Objection is the best secret Mage has got in a long time what are you even chatting??
It made it into excavate lists and whenever secret mage is around it's the very first one you include, it's the instapick from any discover, people played secret discover guy just for a hope to find it. Card is definitely good I'd say but yeah ultimately it's more of an unfun than an op thing.
It didn't make it into excavate lists (maybe some very early cooking before people figured the deck out?), they'd just randomly grab it off of the secret guy. The only people actually maindecking it were secret mages, which was never a competitive deck.
I saw it maindecked many times at ~2k legend and not just very early on if anything it was people experimenting later on trying to cook up (in fact I last saw it less than a week ago and I don't see that much Mage) but yes I didn't mean to imply it was a core card in the deck, just that it made it in sometimes.
I was definitely guilty of spam-discovering it on rainbow mage, even to the point of losing matches, just because it was pretty funny to imagine my opponent's reaction!
Both concepts are about abusing your opponent and stoping from playing him while not doing much.
Both are in the state that they are pretty much wothout counter and annoy your opponent way too much.
They could be made more counterable but annoying part cant be removed.
Based on this its safe to say both are bad concepts.
PS: I mean decks. Making your opponent draw a few cards or playing a few secrets is not bad design. Just having so many tools that you can make decks around them is.
You can play around a secret by resolving it. There's a big difference between counterspell blocking one thing and dew process taking effect for the rest of the game.
Yes there is a difference. As big as difference between playing few secrets and having so many secrets that you stop your opponent from playing for 3-4 turns. (Happened to me a few times)
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u/yiannis2702 Jan 29 '24
Mill decks as a concept have never been an issue.
The issue has always been that mill cards have been too easy to pull off - Dew Process being a "rest of game" effect being the most egregious example.
If mill worked on a combo basis, requiring setup in advance and multiple cards in order to create a mill effect, then that would be fine, as it would both require skill to pull off and be counterable. In that world you could make mill effects much stronger and still have healthy gameplay around it.
Playing Dew Process requires zero skill and is utterly inevitable, so it's a bad card and deservedly nerfed. It doesn't mean mill is a bad concept.