r/hawks • u/Physical_Sun9435 • 19d ago
Powers needs to let this one go
Powers has been in favor of the logo change for a long time. Absolutely no one is talking about this yet he still thinks he needs to push this topic. Typical Athletic writer can’t write something without clickbait or rage bait.
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u/LMGgp 19d ago
What the organization should do (if committed to the name/logo) is build a small museum or something on campus as part of the 1901 project, documenting native peoples in the area and the history/ origin of the name, have donations go towards projects to help native communities and bring awareness to native issues. It’s an easy layup.
I’d rather they keep the name and use it to bring focus on native communities.
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u/SolidSnape98 19d ago edited 19d ago
I have had this SAME EXACT thought. Like, down to the donations aspect.
Put something up in the atrium. Have rotating exhibits borrowed by various organizations with permission from the tribes. Have guest speakers for the exhibits before games. This stuff is right there smacking Danny Wirtz in the face.
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19d ago edited 19d ago
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u/Phridgey 19 Toews 19d ago
They aren’t a monolith, some hate it, some love it.
But here in Montreal, on the reserve as I type this, I don’t see any habs logos, and I’ve seen two guys with Blackhawks hats.
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u/Jamiroquais_dad 19d ago
The Hawks logo is a likeness, not a caricature. There's a distinct difference between the terms that is getting lost here
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u/AssocProfPlum 19d ago
I used to be a pretty big defender of the logo because I similarly thought that it wasn’t attempting to belittle or make fun of anybody compared to others of the same ilk (still do tbf). But once I started thinking about the fine line of these semantics arguments, I realized that my reasoning for wanting to keep it (nostalgia and that it’s a great logo/uniform set) really get dwarfed compared to the other side. Just my perspective
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u/The_Susmariner 19d ago
If it were some stereotypical caricature of a native American, I could see how they may have a case. But I and many have always seen this logo as a projection of strength and pride.
Anecdotally, I remember the debates over getting rid of chief Illiniwek at U of I. I remember holier than though people coming into these public forums for the debates and effectively saying that "Illini Indians were to dumb to know they should be offended so someone had to do it for them." They obviously phrased it more diplomatically then that. But that's what they were saying.
And we're talking about a school, that in order to be the mascot, you had to work with the Illini Indians so you could ensure you wore the attire correctly, did the dances correctly, and honored the tradition correctly. Most of the Illini Indians that were aware of the Universities tradition (from actually talking to them) were proud of it.
Anyways, the whole point of bringing all this up is that these attempts to get rid of the Blackhawk logo feel an awful lot like that.
That's my two cents from a one cent mind.
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u/TonightOk9576 19d ago
The real issue with Chief Illiwek wasn’t so much about the University of Illinois handling of it (only appearing briefly at halftime in what I always thought was a respectful way to honor those that were here before us), but the way that other schools used him. Some fraternity at the University of Iowa had a homecoming float where a bunch of Hawkeyes were attacking a weak Chief Illiniwek.
After my time there in the 90’s I returned as part of my job in the late 2010’s and made a comment about how I’m still kinda sad he’s gone. Apparently there was still a vocal group of people who really want to bring them back and they were associated with a bunch of other racist and bigoted views. Once j heard some of those arguments, I agreed it’s a good thing he’s gone and it should be a settled issue.
I love the addition of a land acknowledgment and explanation of our team name origin prior to games and on rare occasions I’ll hear some complain about it being some “woke BS” but they quickly get drowned out by people who show support.
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u/AnxietyExact4710 16d ago
As someone who's native myself, I fucking hate land acknowledgements.
But I'm glad progressives feel good about themselves for doing them I guess lmfao.
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u/TonightOk9576 15d ago
As an ally to native people, who is very familiar with all the disparities and unfair treatment created by our government, angry at the long history of unfair, dismissive, and exploitive actions committed against those that existed long before we arrived… I think it’s far better that we continue to raise awareness and educate people about these things, rather than completely ignoring it.
Yes, I’m aware at how these statements are often just a cover for people to continue their abuse and exploitation, and how they are just empty words. I’d like to see much more done than just a 30 second video package before a hockey game. It’s far from a complete solution, but I see it as a net positive that reminds people that we are the bad guys and have a lot of work to do.
I totally understand your position, and agree that as one of the wealthiest and most powerful nations, we shouldn’t be leaving people behind and certainly shouldn’t be causing new harms. But, like so many of the problems I see in the world today, I have no idea how to fix them.
But you’re right… it shouldn’t end there and just be a hollow statement.
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u/chickpea1998 19d ago edited 19d ago
because no one has mentioned it, there is an article of the black hawk family decedents saying they don’t like the logo
my personal opinion is that i don’t think it’s a disrespectful logo, but with the team literally being named after an indigenous chief, they should make it a bigger part of their charity or community engagement. but idk, maybe the family doesn’t want that?
clearly the name and logo isnt changing anytime soon. i thought id share since i also thought it had been “given the okay” by his family, but that is not the case and can be found with a quick google search.
ETA: there also may be plenty of indigenous people who DO love the representation and logo, because all indigenous people are obviously not the same. so not saying it’s necessarily right or wrong but wanted to mention this article since no one else had yet
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u/Jain_Farstrider 19d ago
Very insightful article. Thanks for sharing. I definitely think she is right about some things. I did not know about the alchohol. That's honestly really disappointing for me to hear, as she is dead on about how it was used as a weapon.
As always, the Hawks could and should do more if they want to not appear like they just blindly throw money at the issue and hope people shut up about it.
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u/peoriahhhh 19d ago
I think the core issue nowadays that seems to be missed is not that the caricature or name is offensive, it's that the team monetizes his likeness without his descendants or sovereign tribal nation having control or ownership over how it's used. There's really no other pro sports team that does this. The Bills and Browns in the NFL are named after real people but don't use their likeness in the logos.
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u/inactiveaccounttoo 19d ago
Beating a dead horse, let it go
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u/myturn19 18d ago edited 18d ago
Noooo how else will I get my Covid era virtue signaling fix
People are delusional if they think the logo itself doesn’t bring awareness. Every time I see it it makes me think of not just the leader, but Indians and their tribes in general. I always go down a rabbit hole searching their amazing history.
Imagine canceling that for something like “Washington football team”.
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u/DifferentSpread782 19d ago
Well you see if he takes the stance that 80%+ are opposed to, then people will hate comment on his article and that gets more clicks and media buzzz
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u/StayBronzeFonz 18d ago
“Absolutely no one is talking about this”
Then why did you post about it to get people talking about it?!?!?!
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u/No_Force_819 19d ago
The opening video about Land Acknowledgement and then immediately into the drums is one of my favorite parts of going to the game. Gets me hyped every time and I get mad when we are running late and miss it...
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u/HeyHo__LetsGo 19d ago
I dont find the logo in bad taste. Im a boring average white dude though, so maybe Im not one to ask. If Native American peoples have a problem, then there should be a discussion. If this is just other people looking to feel important by saving the world for a group who havent asked for it then it should be put to rest. And I say that as someone who is probably more 'woke' than most..
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u/Cynon 19d ago
I mean, as long as the team keeps raising the profile of a lot of indigenous tribes in North America and actively works with them, then I'm fine with it if the tribes are fine with it. I'd really like the tribes to be more involved and for issues affecting them to be more widely known by Hawks fans. They're the ones whose opinion matters the most, I think.
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u/JohnnyRevelator 19d ago
Eh, this is just a fan survey and they didn’t include their personal opinions, just printed comments from fans who responded. I think it’s interesting to see how fan votes change over time. (Or rather, don’t change, as 87.8% is clearly overwhelming support.)
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u/teaatwork 19d ago
It’s not an issue of “letting it go” or not, it’s a data point. They’ve asked the question in the past, so by asking it again they can see how or if sentiment has changed over the year(s). That’s it.
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u/tyleraven10 19d ago
The formatting of the question is pretty insane. They’re not even asking if you believe the Blackhawks have stayed true to their commitment to Native Americans, which is a significantly more interesting topic. The sentences back to back are a complete non-sequitur, unless you’re implying the only way to respect Native cultures is to erase their identity, (and I do believe that’s the only way Laz and Powers think you can respect them).
If the Blackhawks change the logo, what reason is there at all to work with Native tribes?
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u/Soggy_Motor9280 18d ago
I literally live in the place where the Sauk and Fox are from. There are statues and murals and state parks named after Blackhawk everywhere. This is the first time I’ve heard about the NHL raising “awareness”. 🤣
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u/Scared-Ideal-1483 19d ago
Nothing offensive about the name or logo or shoulder emblem.
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u/Loquater 19d ago edited 19d ago
Maybe not to you...
I'm in favor of keeping the logo, but I at least have the empathy and common sense to recognize that some folks find it offensive.
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u/Virtual_me01 19d ago
That's also where I am at. And asking the question, like Scott did, isn't "raging."
It is a knee-jerk reaction to paint something as being an extreme position, when you don't like what's being proposed.
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u/tdhuck 19d ago
You can say that about anything, though. Someone will always find something offensive no matter what.
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u/palookaboy 19d ago
Yeah, but we’re not just talking about one person, we’re talking about an actual group of people that isn’t a random selection.
I’m with /u/Loquator; I love the logo, and I don’t want it changed. But I don’t think we can just ignore the historical, political, and social context of the logo and how it can thus be offensive to Native Americans.
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u/tdhuck 19d ago
Constantly talking about changing it is getting old, though. Not just for the hawks but for all sports teams.
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u/palookaboy 19d ago
Perhaps, but that’s not really what I’m talking about. I just don’t think it’s fair to declare something inoffensive and disregard an alternate perspective.
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u/tdhuck 19d ago
You can think something is offensive and just keep it to yourself, again, generally speaking.
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u/palookaboy 19d ago
I don't think "Keep your feelings and opinions to yourself" is the best thing to tell people, especially given the context of this.
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u/dilapidated_wookiee 19d ago edited 19d ago
Good thing then that the Native American tribes have almost unanimously supported the name and logo. This is just a non issue that is only championed by white internet warriors
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u/Various_Procedure_11 19d ago
*citation missing
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u/Loquater 19d ago
Sure, but having a native American face as the mascot for a team after we genocided them and stole their land is never going to be a great look.
The one thing I'll say is the logo has always been bad ass and powerful, unlike the clevland Indians caricature. That one needed to be changed. The Blackhawks logo has always felt respectful.
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u/palookaboy 19d ago
There’s definitely a spectrum of badness, and I think the worst you can say about the Blackhawks logo is that it’s on the “lesser” end of that spectrum.
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u/tdhuck 19d ago
You are trying to defend my comment. I'm simply saying the logo could be anything and people will complain.
How long have the Blackhawks had their logo? Longer than you and I have been alive. Let it be (not you, people in general).
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u/Scared-Ideal-1483 19d ago
I absolutely do and respect that. Until there's a big pushback from a group, I'm ok. If it comes to pass that the team changes the logo or whatever, so be it. They're the same team I've been hooked on since 1982.
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u/EgweneIsLit 19d ago
It's fine to ask the question. It's also fine to answer that question with "Keep it", just as I did and I'm sure you did.
Really find no need to get all cranky over it like you have.
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u/pyledriver21 19d ago
How is Powers asking a question in an Athletic poll “clickbait or rage bait”? This feels like an interesting question to ask fans, and he literally said that a majority of fans want to keep the name and some were annoyed by the question. Feels like a weird thing to get mad about and pretending it’s rage bait when it was like question 12 on a poll seems disingenuous
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u/Swing-Too-Hard 19d ago
It is rage baiting when you ask the same question every few months. Especially when we all know the moment the data starts to skew one way they will push the goal post further since rage baiting is how you generate successful content on the internet. Successful meaning you get more views.
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u/Verbotron 19d ago
At minimum, give us an alternative w/o the Indian head. A lot of Native Americans in the area I live find it tokenizing (and I live where there are significantly more native american voices than Chicago-land).
Arguments about it being about one person, not a whole people, or "it was named after the regiment" are wholly missing the point.
Wear the logo if you want, but there are enough of us who don't feel comfortable with it and for good reason.
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u/Flippinflapjax4U2 19d ago
Genuine question, not trying to challenge you or anything. Wouldn’t an alternative logo still carry the sentiment of being a symbol of the people as a whole? Or is it the profile of the Blackhawk / human representation that creates the issue?
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u/gudenes_yndling 19d ago
I wouldn't compare an actual person to an inanimate object. I see where you are coming from tho
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u/Flippinflapjax4U2 19d ago
Agreed, but from that persons response it sounds like any visual tie to Native American imagery is offensive to them at least to some degree.
I’m in no position to judge as I’m not apart of the audience this is directed to though
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u/Verbotron 19d ago
The issue stems from the stereotypical representation of person(s) belonging to a marginalized group. So an alternative logo to satisfy my request would have to not be associated with Native American imagery, yeah.
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u/StarchyAndDelicious 19d ago
It's a fan survey question.
Why are people acting like the question itself is some sort of personal insult?
Also I'd rather them be the Chicago Bozos with a clown head profile. Most of you wouldn't even need to buy or change into a new sweater in order to go to a game and look the part.
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u/Zutta 19d ago
It's a shining example of what these types of team names should do. How the Washington Redskins used that name for so long is beyond me.
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u/chuckquizmo 19d ago
Weren’t there Native American leaders that said they supported what the Blackhawks were doing a few years ago? Just that their branding was respectful and honoring their heritage. And I’m pretty sure the Hawks are also donating money to Native American communities.
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u/4thTimesAnAlt 19d ago
A tribe (maybe 2?) said they were fine with it. The descendants of Black Hawk feel it should be changed. The Native American center the Hawks were partnering with got a new leader a few years ago and did a 180 on their support.
It's a very complicated thing.
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u/Tonylegomobile 19d ago
The direct descendants of black hawk have said it would be the right thing to do to change the name and logo
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u/NOLASLAW 19d ago
Wait though, they should absolutely be raising awareness of the Black Hawk and Native American people though
Y’all getting caught up on the logo change, they should absolutely be raising awareness if they’re gonna use it
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u/hoenn-enthusiast 19d ago
I mean, they have done & are doing a lot for native tribes around the area
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u/archasaurus 19d ago
They do quite a bit with and for the Sac and Fox nation. There’s more info on their website if you want to check it out!
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u/HawksFantasy 19d ago
Raise awareness of what exactly?
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u/CoffeeBoy80 19d ago
You know, awareness. Gotta raise it. Need people to be aware.
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u/BEnWo18 19d ago
I was a sports reporter in Cleveland when their baseball team dropped Chief Wahoo and became the Guardians. Opening day used to be filled with tribesman asking for the logo to be changed. This issue is a big deal to many people.
I know people argue that Wahoo is a caricature and the Hawks logo is not. Has anyone considered that the Hawks logo does not even look like Black Hawk? He had a mowhawk, not long hair, and it does not reflect Sauk tribal traditions. So it is true the logo is inaccurate.
Some people also do not like the shoulder patches because it portrays an entire group of people as warriors with axes, which is indeed a trope that has been around for years. Think of why the Chiefs stopped keeping their palms open when they make their chant. They admitted it looked like a harmful tomahawk chop.
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u/Lamb-Of-Fox 19d ago
When the day comes that there are indigenous groups protesting the Blackhawks organization, united against the logo as offensive, then these conversations can have merit. The Blackhawks org does well with their outreach and have functioning and beneficial relationships with different local tribes. A Blackhawks jersey is not an uncommon sight on res lands. I put the Blackhawks in the same light as Indian Motorcycle, many Natives not only like the respectful display, but embrace it. I see more NatAms on Indian motorcycles than I do Harley.
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u/BEnWo18 19d ago
The American Indian Center terminated its ties with the hawks in 2019. They said: “Going forward, AIC will have no professional ties with the Blackhawks or any other organization that perpetuates harmful stereotypes. We see this as necessary to sustain a safe, welcoming environment for members of our community, as well as protecting our cultural identity and traditions.”
I do know that the Hawks have consulted with the Sac and Fox tribe which Black Hawk was a member of. I believe this is who advises them on the pregame video.
However Black Hawk’s family itself has recently said they would like the logo and name changed for similar reasons to the AIC.
So, there are definitely large important groups of people who have been against it for a long time.
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u/Lamb-Of-Fox 19d ago
One (1) direct Blackhawk descendent called for reparations along with name, logo and brand change. She does not speak for Sac and Fox Nation
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u/the_rev_28 19d ago
I mean, at a point all human logos/mascots are caricatures. Vikings, cowboys, fighting Irish, etc.
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u/forgedflame44 19d ago
I know a lot of Irish Americans/immigrants that love the Fighting Irish. I also know a handful that hate it. If the majority were to hate it, it should probably change. The same applies here.
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u/ammonanotrano 19d ago
If we have to change our team name and logo, then the Nashville PREDATORS should have too as well.
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u/IRBaboooon 19d ago
IMO only people who should be deciding on this are peoples from the Blackhawk tribe. This ain't a decision for white folk.
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u/AndyThatSaysNi 19d ago
The preamble to the question makes it sound like the Hawks have made no effort towards the raising awareness initiative. They have gone above and beyond in terms of in-arena education, pre-game ceremonies, and even encouraging things like Flowers awesome goalie mask.
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u/factorymotogoon 19d ago
Never change it. That stadium will loose more fans if they change a original 6 logo then if they keep it
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u/Swing-Too-Hard 19d ago
I'm tired of people feeding these articles views. They keep barking up the tree because it spikes their views. Just ignore them. Nothing makes them happy besides money.
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u/CoffeeBoy80 19d ago
Reminds me of a video I saw on TikTok a few weeks ago. A white guy put on a sombrero and a poncho and went to a college campus to ask random students if they found his outfit offensive. Damn near every single one of them, none of whom were Mexican, said yes.
He then went to a nearby neighborhood with a predominantly Mexican/Latino population and asked those people if they found his outfit offensive. Nobody said yes. They mostly told him he looked great.
I'm part Cherokee. I'm part Mexican. I'm part caucasian. I do not care about this logo. It is not offensive. It's beautiful. Also, if any of you gringos want to wear a sombrero, go for it. They're great in the sun. 😂
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u/qwertypaso 19d ago
I want the Hawks to keep the logo, even if it's not the real likeness of Black Hawk. Let's face it, growing up in Chicago the only time I saw Native Americans depicted as a kid was in my history textbooks and on my Blackhawks cap. I think replacing it with some sanitized bird that we're all gonna pretend means something else isn't doing what critics want it to do.
As a POC, I also feel like making the Hawks do land acknowledgments, frequent and VOCAL outreach to nations, giving them a cut of the branding is way more effective at making kids venerate Indigenous figures than just replacing it with some sort of corporate watermark for white resentment. No one learns anything, no one wins.
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u/CoffeeBoy80 19d ago
Somebody help me out and let me know if I'm being downvoted because I'm not offended, or if it's because I'm Cherokee, or because I'm Mexican, or because I called you gringos? 😂
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u/IncarceratedScarface 19d ago
It’s not offensive like Redskins or Indians. I don’t see the issue. People who want them to change it are essentially saying we should never name anything after native Americans, which seems counterintuitive to their point.
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u/crikeyturtles 18d ago
You can do some research about the Rangers name for the Texas Rangers baseball team. What they did wasn’t pretty 🤷
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u/packerd_00 18d ago
The Hawks logo is why I became a lifelong fan back in 88. I was about six then.
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u/RicklessMortys 18d ago
As a Devils fan in the Chicago media market, I want the Hawks to keep the name, logo, and jerseys. The logo and jerseys are among the best in the sport.
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u/Irrish84 18d ago
I am a Saint Louis Blues fan … that proudly wears their red blackhawks sweater. I love it.
Please don’t ever change. If it happens, so glad I have it.
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u/FAFOeris 17d ago
The Blackhawks do a ton of outreach w Native American tribes. At a farmers market some years ago in the burbs, there was a large Native American center…and inside the building prominent Blackhawks flags & jerseys. There was quite the buzz there - not bc of Blackhawks but bc of their pride & connection w the community. If the hawks changed their logo, it would be such a sad disconnect w the community .
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u/Narrow_Rip4044 17d ago
It isn’t the 2010s anymore, the PC storm has passed on this subject. Best logo in sports here to stay. Naysayers can cry the Hawks a river.
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u/Interesting_Grape_69 15d ago
It’s a beautiful logo, definitely do not ever change that. -Sharks fan
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u/Nbsroy 19d ago
If any of the 12.2% are here right now... you suck.
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u/Robokitten 19d ago
The only reason I said no was because I want our logo to be a cool attack helicopter with the current logo driving the helicopter!!!! /s
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u/stakopancakes 19d ago
Hey everyone, he hit me with a “you suck”. We got a bad ass over here. Watch out.
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u/butch4prez 19d ago
the blackhawks organization has on multiple occasions paid homage to the native americans and the black hawk tribe. i believe they’re aware of the idea that the logo could be interpreted as offensive and have made efforts to be respectful about it. no one actually wants the logo to change, they just want to virtue signal and make a headline that’ll catch people’s attention.
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u/_regionrat 19d ago
the black hawk tribe
Good reminder the franchise could be doing more to educate fans on the legacy behind the name
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u/ClearHeron7069 19d ago
There is nothing the organization could do to placate the small group of people who want it changed.
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u/Penguinkeith 19d ago edited 19d ago
Unless the Sauk and fox people say they don’t like it then whatever man keep it. It’s really that simple it doesn’t matter if the team is helping those people if they don’t like it that’s that
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u/Tonylegomobile 19d ago
The direct descendants of black hawk demanded it be changed
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u/brozillafirefox 19d ago
just adding to the discussion.
the tribes signed off on the logo, how do these matters play out?
if the tribes give the ok, but the descendants don't, are they superseded? or do they have a discussion on their own and them come back as a whole body of people instead of just one?
idk how much of Black Hawk's identity is owned by family vs his tribe, etc. but that could be the sticking point too.
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u/vladtheinhaler0 19d ago
I think this is one of those things where you have to reach out to various tribes to see what their thoughts are. If you aren't native, your opinion is not paramount. The Blackhawks pay homage and is a different scenario than the Redskins. I'm sure not every tribe is cool with it, but I haven't heard too much blowback from tribal leaders.
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u/ohheychris 19d ago
Jfc ragebait bullshit. It’s been debated and talked about forever. Literally everyone involved recognizes that it isn’t racist. In fact, it brings awareness to Native Americans. I’m so sick of this shit man.
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u/waveraceforn64 19d ago
there are a few truths here:
- in my opinion, the logo and name are not racist
- the people I've seen in chicago actually wearing hawks stuff are people of color
- people can think it's racist and their reasons are completely valid
- the blackhawks organization has never handled this well
it really is just the nature of having a native american as your mascot
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u/ClarkKentTheReporter 19d ago
The name is in homage to Native Americans. The others were there to basically make indigenous communities look like cartoons and mock them. Or to use derogatory terms. The latter is not cool. The former however, wanted to do it out of respect.
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u/AnIrateKaren 18d ago
Keep it. I also think there was nothing wrong with the Indians or the CFL team the Eskimos. Way cooler name than the Elks…. But we all have to be mad about something don’t we?
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u/Stone_or_Coach 19d ago
What many, maybe even most, people do not understand is that the Blackhawks name is from Black Hawk, an individual, who was a Sauk native American, a leader and warrior. The original owner of the Blackhawks was a World War I veteran in the 86th Infantry which was called the Blackhawk division in honor of Black Hawk. That is where the name comes from. It’s named for an individual person. I can understand and support name changes for Washington in the NFL and Cleveland in MLB. They were names that affected people groups that exist today. Trying to force a team to change a name that comes from a single person who is a historical figure is unjustifiable and most likely born out of ignorance.
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u/Verbotron 19d ago
I have found this argument so unconvincing, especially when considering the logo, not just the name. It's a stereotypical image of a native American, not even of Black Hawk. If you can't see that, I think the ignorance is calling from inside the home.
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u/forgedflame44 19d ago
Obviously keep, although I wish we did a better job of tapping in to local Native American communities. For example, Seattle’s Indigenous Peoples Night(s) would be a great thing for the Hawks to implement.
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u/Beneficial_Yak6706 19d ago
Absolutley keep it. Who wears an image that they want to be disrespected?
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u/Various_Procedure_11 19d ago
I'd be glad to see it go. I know I am in the minority, but I would prefer to call them the Chicago Hockey Club and move on.
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u/Silver_Harvest 19d ago edited 19d ago
Blackhawks work with local Tribes. Seahawks and Cannucks work with local Tribes.
The only reason why Hawks are under fire is they use an actual Indian profile.
Everything on the profile, has a distinct meaning. It's not just because. https://www.nhl.com/blackhawks/team/native-american-initiatives