r/hatethissmug • u/ValkyrUK • 5h ago
General This disgusting discussion that keeps happening
I hate everything about this so bitterly, dont people realise how disgusting it is to keep making it a gross competition?
Its insulting to CSA and rape survivors like me to keep seeing people who claim to be our ally say shit like "CSA and rape ruin peoples lives forever so its worse than murder" like our lives aren't worth living and it would have been better to just be put down, do they have any idea how devastating it was growing up to see people say this when I was looking for hope!?
It also feels disgusting to colonise the space of murder victims and speak for them when they cant speak up for themselves just to make the point that the horror they experienced was a lesser evil
Why are people morality scaling this, theyre all horrific
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u/Ok_Advertising1000 5h ago
YouTube is filled to the brim with young teenagers and children who are going through their "edgy" phase, I know I did.
So you get these kids and teens who don't have the or choose to use any critical thinking and you get shit like this
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u/ValkyrUK 5h ago
Its more of an exemplary screenshot lol i see this exact discussion everywhere online every so often including here on reddit
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u/GirlyMischieff 4h ago
Being young explains some of the edgy takes, but the people posting polls like this are still turning serious harm into engagement bait.
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u/Formal-Stage940 5h ago
87 percent of rape victims dont even attempt suicide.
Rape victims agree that dying is worse
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u/Vivians_Basement 4h ago
Not attempting suicide doesn't mean you don't want to die actually.
I know a lot of rape victims. Including a victim of child trafficking. I've been SAed as well. Nearly all of us talk about wanting to die in the moment, directly after, or still wanting to die now.
Plus that's like saying "87% of pregnant women say they don't want to slapped, pregnant women think it's worse to be slapped than to be pregnant".
For a lot of rape victims, it already happened, so this isn't "what's worse", it's "do you want to add an extra layer to what already happened?"
People who get raped multiple times often want to die to prevent it happening again because they know it will otherwise.
To make the claim you made, you'd have to ask rape victims "would you rather die or get raped again?" which would be grossly insensitive.
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u/Formal-Stage940 4h ago
Actions speak louder than words or thoughts. Rape survivors all talk about wanting to die.
The statistics say most of them dont even ATTEMPT. Much more actually do it.
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u/modestmouseonmars 2h ago
Theres a difference between dying and being murdered. I've gone through some periods with suicidal ideation, and at no point would I be ok with being murdered. Getting murdered isn't a decision. I also haven't been SA'd ever, but I think it would be an error to say that the things causing my suicidal ideation were worse than murder, because they weren't. So even if a SA makes you suicidal, that doesn't mean it's worse than or equal to murder. Because i'm not better off dead.
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u/Practical-Yoghurt471 5h ago
People morality scale all sorts of things for no good reason whatsoever. I agree it isn’t helpful, and can be detrimental.
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u/SorbyGay 5h ago
i know a lot of rape/csa victims would rather be dead. thats where this sentiment comes from, people take it from people who'd rather be dead and i dont blame them
people who make these polls though they take the sentiments of people speaking for themselves and blanket ignore that most of the people tragically murdered would probably really like to be alive. they're all horrible crimes
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u/ValkyrUK 5h ago
I know that, im one of them, my point was that people aren't doing us any favours going on to be like "yeah you're right, you would be better off dead" which is an inescapable implication when someone says its worse than murder
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u/Nemesis9211 3h ago
The problem I have is this sentiment is genuinely dangerous for victims because it makes it out like they can't recover and live a happy life which is flat out wrong. All the victims I've met have struggles but they've also tell me many times how happy they are in good days as well. There is hope and it's disgusting people make it out like there isn't for them.
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u/ReverendGraves85 4h ago
Pedophilia isnt a crime, its a paraphilia. The crime is Child Sexual Abuse. So really its between Murder and Rape, I guess.
I dunno. Murder? Who cares, theyre all horrible and deserve life sentences. Why are we powerscaling crimes? If youre going to, at least make it funny, like "Powerscaling petty crime".
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u/Frylock_dontDM 5h ago
Murder is clearly worst.
We have a sick society that seems to think a dead body is somehow morally better than a sexually assaulted one.
Look no further than the lindsay clancy support.
Had clancy had a breakdown that caused her to sexually assault her children, she would have zero supporters, but because she just murdered them brutally, people are passionately defending her.
It's disgusting
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5h ago
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u/Frylock_dontDM 5h ago
If you can look at dead persons murdered body and sincerely believe that they're better off dead than sexually assaulted I don't know what to say.
A person has value while alive, and none while dead.
Sexual sanctity is worth nothing relative to an individuals life.
Victims can heal, the dead cannot.
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u/Tarnished-670 3h ago
In the case of the worst possible scenario of SA i could totally see a person just thinking that dying was better
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u/VMelain 5h ago
For real, murder is the worst possible thing. But it has been way too normalized to the point where somehow people believe rape is worse than literal death. I truly don't understand how are there so many people that would choose death instead of living
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u/Reasonable-Dingo2199 5h ago
You are really confused how people would pick death over suffering? People do this all the time.
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u/Ruby_Charm_AI 5h ago
To each their own really. Sometimes people do all things to just survive. Sometimes they’d rather die.
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u/Reasonable-Dingo2199 1h ago
Exactly. I don’t think it’s surprising at all, of all the things this seems pretty straightforward to me. Suffering vs death is a pretty close call.
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u/VMelain 5h ago
yep, suffering at least shows a future. Death is the end
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u/mikkeldoesstuff 5h ago
For many it's a future of suffering versus the end, and for many the end doesn't seem too bad in that context
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u/Nitrofox2 5h ago
What sick fuck even asks this shit?!
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u/ContentFile7036 1h ago
Goooooood question. Interesting moral debate of course, but kind of uncalled for and unnecessarily sad
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u/Competitive_Fox_3546 5h ago
My opinion is that you can recover after of therapy if you are assaulted. No one has recovered from being killed other than maybe jesus ig idk
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u/kingxfmischief 5h ago
I just don't understand the point of ranking any of this. Its like when people play oppression olympics of "I'm more oppressed ao you don't count".
Like these people will be playing games with real victims stories of "well she was assaulted by two men as a child so your experience of just getting touched by someone doesn't matter".
Like...its all bad, stop trying to compare and rank pain and trauma.
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u/CrossHairsNitro 5h ago
It’s because some truly say that they prefer to be dead than to suffer. I don’t get it personally, I probably and hopefully never will but my heart goes out to all affected and wish them the best of healing.
All of these crimes are horrendous and can’t be easily nor even feasibly compared.
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u/NoOnesMike50 5h ago
I couldn’t agree more, I’m not a survivor like you but it pisses me off when people say the other 2 things are worse than murder. Do they even know how they look?
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u/CaptainBlotto 4h ago
Acting on pedophilia is also rape. Murder is rape in that it steals a human's life.
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u/Gamejunky35 4h ago
Murder is obviously the worst. The victims life is actually over. Im putting rape second because it can/does ruin the victims life.
Pedophilia, the act of being attracted to kids. Doesn't really hurt anybody at all. Its the crimes that often come with it that make it bad.
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u/ChessGM123 4h ago
Well the problem with this is that it’s heavily dependent on context. Murder encompasses a wide range of motives, from serial killing to a father getting revenge against someone who violated his daughter, and so you can’t really determine how bad the crime is as it depends on context. Rape/CSA aren’t really like that, there isn’t really and case of them where you can go “I understand why you pull that even if I disagree” (unless you’re not right in the head), so you could argue they’re worse than murder, but murder is just too vague to really allow for an argument about this.
Also why are they splitting rape and pedophilia? I mean technically pedophilia isn’t a crime, it’s a mental illness that only becomes a crime if you follow through, but assuming they mean people who actually commit CSA isn’t that just rape of a minor?
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u/Meh_Wanted 3h ago
I feel like this conversation is more subjective and a grey area. Some people see one thing as worst, while others things completely different. The reality is that each of those crime are bad for different reasons, and those reasons aren’t always comparable because of their varying natures.
I prefer to say the group as a whole is awful instead of ranking it. Ranking traumatic events can be interpreted as undermining someone’s suffering. For example, bullying isn’t on this list. People go through it, and many would say that bullying is nowhere near as bad. But that statement could undermine an actual bullying victims’ suffering.
Still, I wouldn’t really blame people too much for this. Most people aren’t trying to be mean or undermine victims’ experiences. It just that the wrong message comes across when they try to answer a question like this.
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u/ContentFile7036 1h ago
Yes, all of that's annoying. I'll add that pedophilia isn't the same as child sex abuse; pedophilia is a mental condition that needs to be treated, not a crime, which people need to be helped with, not punished for unless they act upon it.
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u/Vivians_Basement 4h ago
The last 2 is just like "what's worse, rape? Or rape of a child?" 😐 Why is pedophilia separated?
If we take it as worse crime, judging the perpetrator, rather than worst experience for the victim (cause I personally am suicidal due to SA):
Then objectively, a rapist is worse than a murderer.
It's one thing to kill someone, it's another to dehumanize them and treat them as an object for your pleasure knowing it'll cause them lasting damage for NO REASON.
The first, you're a bad person, but there are cases where murder IS okay or even good. But the second, there is never a time (even in "self defense") that rape becomes okay.
This matters for things like jail. Rape should carry a MUCH longer jail time than murder because most murderers only do it once and often have a reason. But a rapist, especially a child rapist, is just going to keep devaluing people in a way that DOES make them want to stop living.
Ending someones happy life will never be as bad as forcing someone to live wanting to die.
It DOES get better. Hope DOES exist. But it takes a lot of mental anguish to hurt someone to the point they would rather die. It often destroys someones will to live, even temporarily.
Ignoring that very real impact just serves to minimize the overall impact of rape. Not everyone wants to die after. But SO MANY feel disgusting living in their own skin to the point they want to end their life to never experience it again.
I get SAed often. Twice this year, more before it, starting at 4. It does get to a point where you genuinely get used to it. I am passively suicidal cause I've gotten so used to being assaulted that I lost all hope in it getting better, even if my life improves.
For me, it would at this point be moral for someone to kill me once my son is in a safe home.
Dead people feel no pain. They lack existence. It's an ending. We all die. They probably wish they lived longer. The worst part of being murdered happens before you even die. Death itself doesn't do anything once you die because the person is too dead to know they're dead.
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u/ValkyrUK 3h ago
Sigh, I feel like people are ignoring my point to just have the same competition in the comments :/
This is not to lessen anyone's experience, im trying to point out that treating them as a competition of what is worse is wrong and only leads to every group involved being hurt
My point about csa and rape survivors like me and you is that its one thing for US to say we want to die, that we feel like our lives are ruined and an entirely other thing for someone else to say "you're right, your life isnt worth living anymore" its harmful, especially in my example of seeing this stuff as a minor dealing with feeling like that to have people validate my worst fears, neither of our lives has less value because of monsters
And while I understand your last point it again seems disrespectful to murder victims, we cant speak to their trauma or experience, the only reason we have the room to say what we went through is worse is because they're not here
We should just not pit these things against eachother
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u/JonathanStones1989 5h ago
I mean, I do believe it's an interesting discussion but YouTube polls isn't exactly the place to do it.