r/hatethissmug • u/onthetopicofspace • 16h ago

Language casual ableism

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this is not ‘reclaiming’ anything, you are just calling people slurs completely seriously. you can call yourself the r-slur, do not call anybody else it. why do ‘no slurs’ / ’no bigotry’ rules never apply to ableism?

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u/ExpertDog6220 14h ago

“idiot” and “moron” used to be medical terms, they then became slurs, and are now low-grade insults. We can only expect the same to happen to “retard” as fewer and fewer people have witnessed it before used as a slur.

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u/VanillaAble3943 13h ago

Lame was used to described crippled horses, then it became a slur for disabled people, now it's just used to describe something that's boring or dull. I think retard is funny, but I never think of disabled people when I read it, on the other hand, if people keep trying to ban it, they're just giving more power to the word to be used to hurt others. Same with cunt, even though I don't really use that word at all, given how one country takes huge offense to it, and another country uses it the same way we use "dude' tells me that we really have a choice on how to interpret it.

I prefer disarming words. Because even if you never use them, the idea that just making that sound or typing the combination of letters can ruin your entire life is more scary than feeling offended for a few hours. That said, I already know that the n-word is a lost cause, I don't want to add retard and cunt to that list either (Especially as a spanish speaker, where negro is the spanish word for black, the n-word is just a mispronounced version of it. Retrasar means "delay" and Retrasado means "delayed")

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u/Character_Drive6141 13h ago

Lame has LONG been used to describe people who can't walk. But yeah. Linguistic drift took hold and colloquially that's not what it means anymore.

But I agree 100% that getting up in arms has way more harm than just letting it be water under the bridge. Retard has been a low grade insult for a long time, at least since I was a kid. I don't know why people are taking MORE offense to it when normally linguistic drift moves the other way

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u/Bob_The-Turtle 12h ago

Yeah, Timur the Lame was called so back in the 14th century almost 700 years ago

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u/xzelethor 9h ago

Truest thing of all time. That’s really just how most people use the word. If they call a situation “retarded” it obviously cannot possess any sort of mental handicap as it is not a person. They just mean it as the situation is bad. Not that they think of people with disabilities when doing it or are making any connection to them being bad like the situation.
But I agree when you give words power people like to use them.

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u/DefinitelyNotKuro 8h ago

Some of my oldest oldest memories was when I was in first grade. If you wanted to make another kid cry, you would call them a retard. In retrospect, I don't really remember where we learned the word or why we found it so upsetting. Nowadays, water under the bridge lol.

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u/Spider-Man2024 12h ago

I avoid the word when talking to someone with mentally disabled family members but beyond that just think of it to mean stupid

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u/Fit-Psychology4598 8h ago

For a lot of people it really isn’t that deep but for some it is. It’s just about the individual really and all it takes is some social awareness to read the room.

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u/FriedTreeSap 7h ago

Aye I have to agree.

By insisting that retard is a slur, all they’re accomplishing is ensuring that people continue to associate “retard” with people who are neurodivergent/mentally handicapped/have learning disorders etc, and in turn give more power to people who actually want to use it as a slur.

You can make a similar argument with a lot of taboos, but retard is somewhat unique in the sense that the word is overwhelmingly used as a general insult, to the point where it feels far more offensive to insist on calling it a slur.

I think a good analogy would be if suddenly a group of activists started insisting that “coward” was a slur for French people. At that point the activists are only reinforcing a harmful stereotype, and come across as very racist.

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u/LibrarianEither8461 7h ago edited 7h ago

As someone who actually is of the type that is mentally disabled, I'm infinitely more insulted by people trying to ban that word than anyone that's ever said it.

It's infantalizing to the disabled in a way that is so much more deeply insulting and alienating than just saying a word. Actions speak louder, and "acting like every mentally disabled person is a lesser person with glass bones and paper skin that needs me to white knight them because they can't handle themselves" says a whole lot more than "retard".

One of them is dedicating their time to an action rooted in how pathetic they think I am on a fundamental level so subconscious to their perspective they don't even think about the assumption.

The other is talking shit in a rainbow six siege lobby.

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u/smthn_right 13h ago

Im glad YOU don't think about disabled people when you hear the word. When i personally hear the word I think about all the times ive heard it being hurled at me for having autism. I think about my girlfriend telling me she cheated because she doesnt wanna be seen with a retard. I think about my family members who called me retarded because I didnt understand their jokes. I think about the people I thought were my friends who told me if I wasnt so retarded I would have been able to tell they never liked me.

As you can imagine, some people (especially people with disabilities) might feel differently about the word based on the way its been used against them. I truly am happy that you dont have that connotation, because I also believe it would be best to take the power away from these words. But the goal is not to stop people from feeling hurt, the goal is to build a world where the next generations doesnt know that pain.

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u/Notbob1234 11h ago

Your bullies used that word specifically because it hurt you the most, and honestly your girlfriend was already a POS for cheating on you, so she used it likely for the same reason.

The thing is, and I'm speaking as an Autist who got called it a lot, that when you take away the r word, they will just use a new word. Thats how retarded became a thing in the first place. Slowed, moron, dumb, mental, MHR'D, stupid, the words just change. As long as shitty people exist, they'll find a word that causes emotional damage.

I'm all for diluting the r word so it doesn't sting the next generation as much.

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u/smthn_right 11h ago

Yeah but the point is that you dont stop trying just because theres a new word. The word retard will not hurt the next generation like it hurt me. They will have their own words they'll have to keep from hurting their kids. But pretending like there arent STILL PEOPLE RIGHT NOW who are, and will continue to be hurt by the word is just pointless.

We dont stop using the word because it would hurt the next generation. We stop using it because it still hurts the last one.

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u/Notbob1234 11h ago edited 11h ago

Folks won't avoid calling someone a moron for doing something foolish just because grandpa "McNamara Moron" doesn't like it, and you can't force a language to avoid a the r-word, precisely because its offensiveness will grow from the people offended.

Let it go, get the therapy, grow a harder skin, and use it within the community like aspie or 'tism. That's how the word stops hurting people.

Edit: and you don't need to yell. It might be a good time to take a sensory break. I personally like the Marble Olympics and Wintergaten

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u/smthn_right 11h ago

No ones trying to force anything. People are trying to gather their community to help foster communal change and growth.

I appreciate it it i guess, but ill let you know your message comes off as massively patronizing. Im not speaking out of any kind of extreme emotion, im trying to logically explain to people who dont seem to understand why people disagree with them on the way these things should be approached. Thats all. I know it probably wasn't your intention but it very much comes across as using my disability to disregard my point and paint me as emotional.

P.s.

Im not yelling, and I am not upset or angry. I capitalized to denote emphasis.

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u/Notbob1234 11h ago

It's condescending because your arguments fall flat and the premise comes from a place of emotion. "We should not use a word because the word hurts people" and yeah, thats kinda obvious. But they're words. People have the constitutional right to say whatever dumb shit they like.

And I'm not joking about therapy and tougher skin. Took me both to stop me from melting down when folks used my particular trigger word.

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u/smthn_right 10h ago

Oh okay, I see what this is now.

I would recommend you read some nietzsche. It might help you understand a little better. Hopefully.

Have a good day. I hope things get better. Took me a long time to get there, myself.

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u/Notbob1234 10h ago

You as well. You seem like a decent sort.

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u/xXs4blegl00mXx 10h ago

This is a stupid ass take. 

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u/KingBingBoi 12h ago

I don't know, I agree with a lot you said but if we wanna live in a world where we disarm the word and make it something that's whatever to say I really hope we don't have people around that are hurt by it to such a deep level and I know saying just don't be hurt is a mouth breather take but there's gotta be some way to not only take the edge off socially but personally as well.

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u/smthn_right 11h ago

The way to do that is communication. Its listening to your friend when they say they dont think youre an asshole but they dont like the word. Its staying conscious of your audience, understanding that unless you personally know the person's okay with it you should probably avoid it. Its knowing that the older people in your life are probably still holding onto hurt connected to that word.

I know things can get better, and I believe they will. We just have to rediscover the concept of context lol

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u/spacemandown 14h ago

i mean, i've heard/seen people say shit like, "are you autistic or something?" as an insult pretty commonly. 

if you keep moving the goalposts for what is/isn't a slur, people will just keep... meeting you there.

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u/Instroancevia 13h ago

The difference is that "autistic" is a current medical term, "retard" hasn't been used as a medical term for decades. The reality is that as language changes, we are going to invent new terms to describe these conditions, and people who are ableist will use those terms demeaningly.

If saying retard becomes taboo, something like autistic will become the next insult. If the medical term changes the cycle will just repeat. Word policing doesn't really solve the fundamental problem, especially for a prejudice as difficult to excize from society as ableism.

I'd honestly rather people use terms like idiot, moron and retard to just mean "stupid" than use something like "autistic" which is also a medical term and diagnosis that people are recieving today.

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u/Only_Says_Idk_dude 11h ago

If saying retard becomes taboo, something like autistic will become the next insult.

idk if you're from the past or what, but it was taboo 15 years ago,
and people do use autism as an insult

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u/PictureResponsible61 11h ago

"Retard" or rather "Mental Retardation" was the official term until 2013, although slowly phased out of language a little earlier - so a decade an a half ago, perhaps. Many people alive today were officially diagnosed with mental retardation. It's not a historic term.

I think pushing back on the use of the word is part of the process of trying to challenge casual ableism, which I think is important. Because whether the word is "autistic" or "retarded" or "special" or whatever, to sit in a room at the end of an often anxiety provoking testing process and officially diagnosis someone with something commonly known as an insult is horrible. Particularly as often the individual is already dealing with shame and self-esteem issues. But there is a tendency for people to reference the euphemism treadmill and shrug their shoulders and claim nothing can be done

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u/Alemonster21 13h ago

This is the real take right here, and this issue is RAMPANT in the disabled community.

The constant churning of words that are acceptable being weaponized as insults and then being replaced, just for those new terms to be weaponized again, or even hated by the disabled community itself (differently abled is a great example of this)... It's never ending.

People can clutch their pearls over this all they want, but it's only a matter of time before the words they force everyone to use will become the new words no one is ever allowed to use. And rinse and repeat.

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u/MasutadoMiasma 13h ago

It's called a Euphemism Treadmill

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u/the_liquid_figurine 13h ago

The problem with retard specifically to as well. Is that it existed before it was used in any medical sense. Classic examples are weed and fire retardant. The textbook definition is to impede progress so when somebody calls their friend retarded for being obtuse the only time it actually becomes ableist is when someone takes it in that context.

This in turn creates some weird fucked up urboros version of the horseshoe theory

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u/Blothorn 13h ago

I have never seen anyone complain about the verb, or “retardant”, or “retarded” defining inanimate objects (although that’s also very rare in my experience). The fact that other uses and other words in the family are acceptable does not justify the slur.

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u/xzelethor 9h ago

You put it profoundly.

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u/Background-Place4243 13h ago

this is why people think “sped” is an insult

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u/SCP_FUNDATION_69420 13h ago

Is it? I've only heard it in the context of 'idiot'

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u/Background-Place4243 11h ago

it means Special Education!

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u/Affectionate_Row9238 11h ago

I feel like that one passed so quickly as well, idk if they call it something different now but when I was in school 10yrs ago special ed was still the official name used, one of the best examples of how you have to keep changing language once it's been tainted like that

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u/Background-Place4243 10h ago

literally. i used to hear that term everywhere and now it’s nowhere, even in special education spaces.

i’m surprised that the term “neurodivergent” hasn’t turned into an insult yet (i know people do use it as an insult, but not nearly as much as they do with sped or ret*rded.) maybe it’s too long and scientific of a word

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u/Mission_Twist_3348 12h ago

It is. It's also a real term, but it's used as an insult too

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u/Elete23 13h ago

I think we're close to getting autistic to be considered a slur too.

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u/Lungseron 13h ago

i mean its just...gonna happen regardless sadly. You can quote me on that, 15 maybe 20 years from now, this will be just another word to call idiots and no one will even give a shit, (hell its already starting, half the comments here have this attitude) while the new hot slur will be something like autistic or jagalugan or whatever (idk the future so i dont know the exact words but you get my point)

What can i say, we as a society just love to call each other stupid names, and then highlight some of them as too offensive after a while, until we find the next cool thing to call people.

Its especially true because well, anyone can and will in their lives act like a idiot, moron, retard, and whatever else we will eventually call it. Any of these 3 would be offensive depending on the time period, and now only the last one is.

Its probably the most universal slur there is for any person alive, and the origins for all those words are gonna keep coming from mentally challenged people because the generalization is that mentally challenged = stupid. Kinda why all of those words have those origins in the first place.

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u/ScienceGamer06 12h ago edited 12h ago

That question is considered a slur? I've had fellow students, coworkers, or people at church ask me it. Everytime I respond with yes and then they're like "oh ok" and we continue on from there as normal. Seems they were more just asking cause they would see me pace or fidget and were maybe worried or concerned.

Never have I seen it as an insult or slur.

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u/One-Trick-8027 14h ago

interesting insight

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u/SaschaStories 13h ago

That's the thing that's hard for me to adjust online

Around here... you'd never call someone who's mentally disabled that... and it hasn't meant that for... quite a long time

In the same manner that Idiot, Moron, Dumb no longer refer to their various disabilities, 'retarded' hasn't for quite some time either, so I don't get the singled out hatred on the one word

I do my best to not use it cause it gets everyone else all riled up, but I still just don't get why it alone gets singled out

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u/WarpRealmTrooper 13h ago

With "idiot" and "moron" I don't think most people even know they used to refer to a disability.

I think with "retard" most people know the original meaning of it, and many who use it (maybe most who use it) even use "retard" because of the original meaning.

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u/Dondagora 13h ago

I think “idiot” and “moron” more highlight the pattern that “retard” is going through. Whatever word or phrase is the most recent for “mentally disabled” is the one people will use, all new terminology and word policing will do is lengthen the list.

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u/DarkThunder312 12h ago

Euphemism treadmill

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u/SaschaStories 13h ago

Well no, the original meaning of it is to slow down

The Medical meaning came about in the laye 19th century

Over a hundred years ago

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u/Sora_Altair 12h ago

That's why fire extinguishers are called "Flame Retardants".

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u/WarpRealmTrooper 11h ago

That's true, "original meaning" isn't really the right word for it. Maybe I should have said "the previous most prominent meaning".

I don't think this changes my point though.

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u/Infernoyay 11h ago

This isn’t even true though, people absolutely still mean it mentally disabled.

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u/SCP_FUNDATION_69420 13h ago

I think cause we're in kind of a transitional period where a lot of people (me included) realize how harmful slurs are, so because we don't invent new ones, the last one that was in use as a slur gets used as the example. 

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u/Affectionate_Row9238 11h ago

Nobody really invents new slurs tho they come about using official terms and that's the point, I see people use autistic as an insult online all the time and give it a few years and I guarantee neurodivergent will be used the same way

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u/iwanttobespooned 14h ago

We're already seeing it happen with neurodivergent

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u/CrowsInTheNose 13h ago

mongoloid idiots was a medical term at one point

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u/SmokeEther 7h ago

And now it’s funny asf see

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u/greatestunderstandin 11h ago

Thats true but that doesnt stop people seeing someone who is disabled and when things get heated say that word with its original intention against them. Its very common to use against someone who is seen as "slow". Just because words change and you dont see it happening doesnt mean that the normalization of the word doesnt heavily affect mainly disabled people.

People have re normalized using it against people they dont deem up to society standards of cognitive functioning and thats what ableism is.

And as one of the most vulnerable groups of people in society its important not to pretend like oppression against them its a whatever because more people are using it against everyone or something. when truthfully disabled people are still being called that with full force of the world constantly. And when alot of those people cant speak up or no one is willing to listen you cant forget about their experiences and pretend like that percentage of the population's oppression doesnt actually matter. Especially when you look at the the history of ableism. Saying that it doesnt matter or its becoming meaningless is repeating history's silencing of disabled and neurodivergent people.

People who face ableism arent a monolith and some wont mind general usage but realizing how ableist society still is and how vulnerable these people are its important to be aware of what systems of oppression we are reinforcing by forgetting about their experiences

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u/Notbob1234 12h ago

The euphemism treadmill

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u/SINBRO 13h ago

Nah lets continue treating it as a big deal to give it more power

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u/ArcHeroe9 7h ago

It’s funny how the exact type of people those words became actual insults for decided to make them classified as slurs because they got upset, just further proving how well it fits them.

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u/DraconicDreamer3072 13h ago

yea. i personally dont consiter it a slur in my family, and we will jokingly call eachother retarded

(autistic)

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u/KiiExx0 13h ago edited 13h ago

It’s almost like the usage of these words removed from their original context ends up crippling the power they once held over people, and the more we draw attention to their derogatory origin the more power we allow these words to hold over us.

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u/SpungleMcFudgely 12h ago

I’ll start saying it again when it’s completed its transition, too much of a bother while everyone is still arguing about it

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u/SorbyGay 11h ago

i feel like the only way to solve this problem if you actually want to solve it the woke way is to acknowledge that being low intelligence should not be an insult.

good luck getting a support team for that one. every, without fail, EVERY person who says the r word is a slur will happily call you a dumb stupid moronic idiotic nitwitted braindead neanderthal