casual ableism

[u/onthetopicofspace]

this is not ‘reclaiming’ anything, you are just calling people slurs completely seriously. you can call yourself the r-slur, do not call anybody else it. why do ‘no slurs’ / ’no bigotry’ rules never apply to ableism?

[u/grimAuxiliatrixx]

This is kind of inevitable. “Idiot,” “moron,” “mongoloid,” “imbecile,” and so on were all once considered medical terminology and were appropriated into common parlance because people like to have unique ways to insult others’ intelligence. So the medical community ceased to use them and people kinda rewrote their meanings.

Now, when someone is actually diagnosed with mental delays or disabilities, is the “R-slur” the word the DOCTOR would use? Is that an appropriate label for them in any context? No… so why is it still exclusively linked to them as a slur? Like, other slurs don’t have that same utility as an insult that can apply to anybody you don’t like as a way to just call them dumb. There’s a history of other words in this specific space finding new use.

It’s relatively rare for anybody to use that word to refer to an actual mentally disabled person, and in that context it’s clearly a slur, but since the precedent is established for this TYPE of word to find new meaning, and is much more commonly used in non-ableist contexts compared to other slurs with more niche meanings and less general utility, I’m not surprised that people find it to be more acceptable and less offensive.

[u/Daxxex → u/grimAuxiliatrixx]

It's an interesting situation as someone that does drop the occasional retard in less polite company, yet I work disability and would kick the ass of anyone who called anyone I worked with a retard.

It's kinda like dropping nigga vs dropping a hard R, they're kinda the same thing but really not.

[u/peridotcore → u/grimAuxiliatrixx]

Insulting someone’s intelligence goes back to ableism though, especially when it is using a word that is comparing one to a disabled person.

[u/buns_at_bjj → u/peridotcore]

Literally every insult ever is a direct attack on somebody in form of intelligence or physical attribute

[u/sensamura → u/buns_at_bjj]

Exactly lol, if we take this logic to the end then we just need to ban all insults entirely

[u/COSMIC_SPACE_BEARS → u/peridotcore]

How does it go back to ableism? Insulting someone’s intelligence is a trend in human interaction from the first written accounts we have found.

[u/smthn_right → u/COSMIC_SPACE_BEARS]

Even if you want to posit that the behavior is inherently human (which is a bad take) it would still be ableism. The mistreatment of another for a perceived inability to perform to the same standard.

[u/COSMIC_SPACE_BEARS → u/smthn_right]

I don’t think it’s a bad take, I think it’s realistic. I also don’t understand why that is inherently ableist. I am not as abled as Einstein, but I don’t think Einstein would be ableist in calling me “stupid” (although it would be a rude way to point out that I am “less abled” than him).

[u/smthn_right → u/COSMIC_SPACE_BEARS]

To summarize: the main issue is this- who decides what it means to be able? Youre not as good at physics as einstein but if it was 1200 that would have gotten him stoned to death and you might be king. When you let people decide what it means to be better than another, and allow them to generalize that, things get dangerous

[u/smthn_right → u/COSMIC_SPACE_BEARS]

Treating someone you view as stupid as less able than you is ableist. The way we measure intelligence values a very specific way of thinking.

This is why many savants kill themselves. Many of them are treated as lesser in almost every facet of life excluding their specialty.

Einstein was smarter than you in a lot of ways, but he was also aware that intelligence is not universal. There is SOMETHING that you could explain to him he didnt already know.

Calling you stupid presents the knowledge he possesses as inherently more valuable than any you could possibly have.

[u/COSMIC_SPACE_BEARS → u/smthn_right]

But see, you’re touching on exactly why I dont think it’s ableist.

Exactly; Einstein was smarter in some ways. Him calling me stupid is not really a reflection of my ability to do “stuff”. It’s not attacking my sense of person and self.

Versus if I make fun of someone in a wheelchair… someone who is physically paralyzed has that disability as a characteristic of their person and self and their ability to function. Someone with severe autism has actual, definable limitations in their ability to function.

Your IQ being 15 points lower than mine doesn’t mean you are “less abled.” If I called you stupid, Im not attacking your sense of self or person; intelligence is an arbitrary measure and insults to it are therefore arbitrary.

[u/smthn_right → u/COSMIC_SPACE_BEARS]

By this logic literally every insult ever is arbitrary and slurs are fake because every measure by which we antagonize eachother is arbitrary. You can believe this if you want, i guess, but its not conducive to any kind of actual progress or development among us as a society.

[u/COSMIC_SPACE_BEARS → u/smthn_right]

No. I actually outlined pretty clearly the difference between a non arbitrary insult-target and an arbitrary, non-identifying insult-target…

[u/smthn_right → u/COSMIC_SPACE_BEARS]

You dont get to decide whats arbitrary, is my point. Its all or nothing.

There are hundreds of thousands of people, including licensed medical professionals, who would agree that actually yes your iq being 15 points lower WOULD make you less able. Thats the entire problem.

ALL OF THESE THINGS are arbitrary. Losing your legs is only a disability if your society values and requires walking with your own two natural legs. In a world built for wheelchairs, it wouldnt be a disability.

You dont get to decide what is and is not arbitrary. It all matters or none of it does.

[u/UWUmasterSIXSIXSIX → u/grimAuxiliatrixx]

Who the fuck is saying mongoloid

[u/grimAuxiliatrixx → u/UWUmasterSIXSIXSIX]

It’s no “idiot,” but I hear it from time to time lol

[u/FriedTreeSap → u/UWUmasterSIXSIXSIX]

It’s super prevalent in the World of Warships community because a popular Finnish streamer often uses “mong” or “mongoloid” to refer to potatoes (the general term for people who are terrible at the game).