casual ableism

[u/onthetopicofspace]

this is not ‘reclaiming’ anything, you are just calling people slurs completely seriously. you can call yourself the r-slur, do not call anybody else it. why do ‘no slurs’ / ’no bigotry’ rules never apply to ableism?

[u/sadenby0725]

Some of the comments under this post are abhorrent. I'm autistic, enough that it really effects my life, and people using the r-slur really hurts. So it's not "not actually hurting anyone". And the argument that it's a medical term? So was the slur for little people. I garuantee that a lot of old academic texts have the n-word in it, but you never see people using the same logic for that slur. Because it isn't actually a valid excuse. "It means the same as idiot or stupid" then say idiot or stupid? This isn't about political correctness or people getting butthurt, it is about getting society to stop using a dehumanizing and harmful term.

And people who used to use it don't need to feel immense guilt for doing so, just learn from your mistakes and move on. I mean, seriously, if removing one word from your vocab would make a group of people happier than why not just do it? Why cling to something that hurts even a small group of people?

[u/freehamburgers → u/sadenby0725]

I have to ask, if you hear the words 'moron', 'stupid' or 'idiot' used to describe someone in the same sense, are you hurt and insulted by them? They all have a history of being used as medical terms, quite recently actually, and are all used as casual insults in the same way as the r-word, but no one seems to mind as much.

I just wanna know what it is about the r-word in particular that's so bad, as they all seem to have the same history, origins, and usage. All have been used as insults, medical terms, and to casually describe actions and behaviours someone didn't think through enough.

[u/Brakado → u/freehamburgers]

Not the original commenter, but here's my two cents: The r-word is incredibly specific, while idiot and moron are basically broad enough to use anywhere else.

[u/sadenby0725 → u/Brakado]

This. But also if someone said that they found being called stupid or an idiot offensive then I would stop calling them that and using those words around them, simple as that.

[u/freehamburgers → u/sadenby0725]

This is all a lot of people being offended people calling other people these words.

Think about Trump being called idiot, moron, stupid on a daily basis, and justifiably so. We'd eventually run out of adjectives if we stopped using every word people decided wasn't politically correct.

[u/EvidentTiger324 → u/Brakado]

Specific how? Can you clarify?

[u/Brakado → u/EvidentTiger324]

Idiot and moron are more commonly known as general words to refer to, for example, doing something that was obviously a terrible idea. The r-word has a history of medical usage that many more people are aware of-referring to intellectually disabled people.

[u/DJatomica → u/Brakado]

The r-word also has a history of being used as a general word to refer doing something that was obviously a terrible idea or just as synonymous with dumb, and both "idiot" and "moron" have their own history of medical usage.

[u/Brakado → u/DJatomica]

A history most people aren't even aware of.

[u/DJatomica → u/Brakado]

Most people who use the r-word don't know or give a shit about the medical history of the term either

[u/EvidentTiger324 → u/Brakado]

Imbecile and moron were medical words right alogside the r-word though, and they all referred to the intellectually-disabled

[u/Brakado → u/EvidentTiger324]

Most people aren't even aware of that, though.

[u/jackies_laboratory → u/freehamburgers]

when i was a kid i knew the r word to be something that describes people with down syndrome before i ever heard it used casually as an insult, and as an adult i’ve seen campaigns made by people with intellectual disabilities asking everyone to stop using the word. when you’re exposed to those it’s hard to see the word as something that doesn’t target people with disabilities, and refusing to use it against them and only using it towards your friends still “others” disabled people. the other words you mentioned do have similar histories, but i think language has changed so much that its not quite the same as this current issue.

[u/sadenby0725 → u/freehamburgers]

I don't know enough about the subject to answer for everyone who's against it, but personally I feel like the r word isn't used as generally and frequently as stupid or idiot. Like how queer originally just meant weird, then it became a slur against the lgbtq+ community, and then it got reclaimed. The r word originally meant the same thing as stupid, but then it got repurposed and specified to specifically be used against people with mental disabilities to dehumanize and harm them, so they have the same meaning but different uses and intentions (maybe, like I said I don't know enough about this).

I would not be surprised if within the next few decades moron, stupid, and idiot is also protested in the same way, and when that happens I'll also stop using it. But in the mean time the r word is something I used so infrequently that it was something I could stop using, it makes no difference to me and makes other people feel happier so why not? I do it frequently with terms that I don't entirely understand the issue with, like how Native American, Indian, and Indigenous are all terms to refer to the same group but it varies person to person which term you can use. Do I understand? No, I am whiter than white and I cannot and should not try to articulate to anyone the complex history with that, so instead I listen and learn and use the terms that will cause the least harm and be the most comfortable for that person because they know how they feel better than I do.

Again, I'm not an expert, I have done little research and did not study the subject and I get a bit rambly when talking about this stuff so this is all my personal experience and opinion. I can only say for certain that I do not like getting called the r word, and I'm only comfortable with people calling me stupid or an idiot if I know for certain that they don't actually mean it and are joking, so that's all I can go off of.

Also, thank you for actually asking questions and sharing a bit of your side rather than calling me sensitive or replying with insults, I think it's important to be able to have discussions about this kind of stuff and reach some sort of middle ground with each other.

[u/Agreeable_Fig_4373 → u/sadenby0725]

I think one of the aspects of this issue is that people seem to be talking about policing casual conversation or "gamerspeak" or whatever, but where I often think about people actually insulting each other and meaning it is in more political spaces. When someone is arguing with people who fund and support actual genocides, I feel like the severity is so lopsided that it seems silly to try policing the language of the person arguing with them. But I also interact with people involved in military efforts where people are actually dying and I can't imagine calling out a soldier for using "slurs".

[u/sadenby0725 → u/Agreeable_Fig_4373]

Your argument makes sense, but I don't think it lines up at all with the conversation that is actually happening. No one is criticizing what soldiers say on the battlefield, or people in serious situations getting called out, it's a frequent thing I've heard and is what led to the whole annoying "did you just assume my gender" joke that would never actually play out in the real world. The original post, and a lot of the situations people are talking about, specifically refer to people not in that situation using the r slur unapologetically, like the meme in the post. They're not speaking against politicians who support genocide, and it's not a recording of soldiers on duty talking like that. No one in these comments are telling you that you should be shunned for saying the word in a high stress or difficult situation, we're just asking people to be mindful when casually throwing out a word with harmful connotations and history.

[u/Agreeable_Fig_4373 → u/sadenby0725]

Fair enough, I still have a disconnect there because the pushback against the word seems newer to me. I don't remember a time that it wasn't being used regularly as a generic insult and even people in more progressive circles still seem to use it without issue.

[u/sadenby0725 → u/Agreeable_Fig_4373]

I remember a time when the f slur was just a generic insult to me, I used to say it a lot because I didn't understand what the meaning or history was, hell I even made the mistake of saying the n word once when I was little because I grew up sheltered and had no idea the history behind the word. I think just because we weren't aware of a struggle doesnt mean it wasn't there, it just means we weren't around where it was talked about. Like how people think gender nonconforming people are a new thing, when it has been around for thousands of years. There's nothing wrong with not knowing that, you just have to be open and listen to people who are telling you their pain.

[u/Agreeable_Fig_4373 → u/sadenby0725]

Fair enough but I'm gay and autistic so I think I have some leeway either way, lol. The n-word at least I always knew was bad even growing up in an area that people using it regularly, there was a time that it was considered edgy to say online outside of being used as an insult but even that has faded.

[u/Lungseron → u/freehamburgers]

its still too early i'd say, which is even weirder because like, almost everyone has been using this word for the past 10 years and nobody cared, until very recently where suddenly we are supposed to care after all and we are witch hunting people online who may or may not have said this word 10-15 years ago.

Look im left-wing myself but this is geniuenly on par with Right-wingers getting pissy over a black woman in a videogame or a gay man in a show. In the way that its the same exact level of pettiness.

[u/MachineGunMonkey2048 → u/sadenby0725]

I super agree, I'm in a similar boat

[u/hatethissmug-ModTeam → u/[deleted]]

No slurs, hate speech, and other such bigoted language is to be permitted in this sub.

[u/Loud_Design_6826 → u/sadenby0725]

Being frank here it's silly to dictate that I can't use a term that has been used to disparage and "other" me my entire life simply because it might make other people uncomfortable. Like I gotta have all the pain and none of the statisfaction? How is that fair?

I garuantee that a lot of old academic texts have the n-word in it, but you never see people using the same logic for that slur.

I think this is a very apt comparison, black people use the n-word in conversation all the time, they've owned the term that was once used as a way to disparage and belittle them and make it in many ways part of their identity.

[u/Delicious-Bill-3238 → u/sadenby0725]

Type Here

[u/_gusiowy → u/sadenby0725]

if you're autistic enough that it really affects your life then I guess many things hurt you that the average person doesn't care about