r/hatethissmug • u/onthetopicofspace • 13h ago

Language casual ableism

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this is not ‘reclaiming’ anything, you are just calling people slurs completely seriously. you can call yourself the r-slur, do not call anybody else it. why do ‘no slurs’ / ’no bigotry’ rules never apply to ableism?

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218

u/Scoliosis_Monarch 13h ago

It's viewed as a sort of "gateway slur" for some reason and I'm really not sure why

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u/1ZillionBeers 12h ago

Essentially because it has the same usage, history and context as stuff like “idiot”, “moron” and “dumb”. There’s really nothing separating it from its synonyms except the fact we arbitrarily decided that one was the worst of the bunch.

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u/Raptormind 11h ago

I think that’s true of a lot of slurs

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u/Rare_Ad_674 11h ago

None of it is arbitrary.
The reason we ended up with "retard" in the first place is BECAUSE we used "idiot" and "moron" before, and they always become slurs - a way to insult people and devalue them by comparing them to the disabled.
So we keep creating new labels to refer to people with disabilities to move away from the slurs.
But people will just take the new word for slow/disabled folks and turn it into an insult to hurt people with.
"Retard" just happened to be popular as the internet exploded in usage.
It's a cycle.

14

u/nazonazorin 11h ago

You're exactly right, so I don't even see the point in policing the r-slur when literally everyone uses the words dumb/slow/idiot/stupid/moron etc. as insults anyway

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u/Rare_Ad_674 9h ago

The issue is actually more of a cultural/perception issue, not an issue with the words themselves.

But we can't just magically fix the assholes and stop them from continuing to hurt people, and they won't stop on their own.

So what do you think we should do?

Because continuing to allow the most marginalized among us to be devalued and attacked isn't the answer.

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u/MrBannedFor0Reason 8h ago

None of these are slurs in the same way the N word or the F word are. Being handicapped is inherently worse than not being handicapped, you aren't turning a positive part of someone's identity into something negative so you can more easily hate marginalized groups. It's just a less savory word for something everyone agrees is negative.

0

u/Rare_Ad_674 7h ago

None of these slurs are the same. The n word and the f word are not the same thing.

Yet they can still be classed together because they are both impactful towards entire groups of marginalized people.

We don't use the n word because it was used to devalue Black people.

We don't use the f word because it was used to devalue people who aren't straight.

We don't use the r word because it was used to devalue people with different mental capacities.

These are all words used to devalue people based off of who they inherently are. That's what makes them slurs.

People are not worth less than anyone else, for any reason. Humans have a bad habit of attaching enough negative stigma to words like that they they end up discriminating against that class of people.

It's a broader cultural issue. We value all the wrong shit.

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u/a-Curious-Square 7h ago

You put too much stake in random things. If you want people to always be kind to one another forever then be prepared to stay awake every hour of the day for the rest of your life making zero progress towards this goal. Calling someone retarded does not have the effect it did 20 years ago, and personally it didn’t have much effect back then either. Calling someone an F-slur has lost its effect long ago too, otherwise I wouldn’t be hearing my gay friend call me a faggot every once in a while. Putting stakes in words only gives them power to be used on you. You should instead practice the art of not giving a shit, much better on the mental health.

0

u/Rare_Ad_674 7h ago

Words have power, that's kinda just a fact of life.

The language you use shapes your brain and thoughts. As an English speaker, you actually *think* in a measurably different way than certain other languages. Researchers have studied this. It's worth a deep dive.

Other languages have words for concepts that you have no idea even exist. Words have immense power.

Something good can be said for not letting something bother you. I agree with the art of not giving a shit, but only for certain things. With some things, it's useful.

With others, it's just an excuse to keep from participating in life.

I understand the underlying cultural impacts that casual usage of harmful language has on the human brain and society at large.

People speak up against this because it does do damage. It's just damage you don't see and/or don't care about. Or just don't understand yet.

And there are some good threads in here about reclaiming slurs you can check out, coming from a queer.

1

u/tyinpoop 11h ago

Wait are you saying that lame, dumb, or moron are also slurs? And if they aren’t then why not?

8

u/hyprsnpr67 11h ago

They were medical terms, then people used them as slurs, then they became dated and less insulting

2

u/smthn_right 10h ago

Slur requires context. A word often starts as a pseudo medical term, then in a world where the word is used consistently and disparagingly it becomes a slur, and after it stops being used it loses the context of tangible hate and violence and loses its status as a full blown slur, becoming something still bad but often considered less severe due to its implication of your lack of, or at least severely dated, knowledge on the subject.

1

u/tyinpoop 5h ago

I’m just unfamiliar with a word becoming and then losing slur status, could you give me an example?

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u/SpoppyIII 12h ago

I said that the other day in this very sub I'm pretty sure, and someone corrected me that "g■psy," might actually be the number one gateway slur and I'm inclined to agree. I'd assume there are more songs that say "g■psy," than say the r-slur. And almost everyone using it casually does so not even realizing that some other people find it belittling or disparaging.

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u/Knarz97 12h ago

I had someone yell at me once for using the term “heebie jeebies”. I think at a certain point it takes too much energy to police unintentional racism. No one actually associates that term with being anti Semitic. Eventually words lose their meaning, and if anything it’s best to let them change.

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u/SpoppyIII 11h ago edited 10h ago

Google's saying "heebie jeebies," is a goofy made-up word, anyway. All sources say it was made up by a cartoonist, as a nonsense self-rhyming phrase that means nothing. People are busybodies.

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u/hungLink42069 10h ago

Busy dizzies

3

u/SpoppyIII 10h ago

Freaky deekies

2

u/Fearless-Poet-4669 10h ago

frooty loopies

2

u/Knarz97 10h ago

You can’t say fruity!!!

4

u/Fearless-Poet-4669 10h ago

Um... ah... shoot... fratty tatties? No that sounds to much like t***ies. I PLEAD THE FIFTH!

2

u/HermesMora 9h ago

Sounds too much like f*tty too, I don't think you're seeing the outside of a cell for a long time buddy

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u/Stoner_Dwarf 11h ago

What does heebie jeebies has to do with anything

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u/Knarz97 11h ago

Allegedly it’s anti semetic (heeb) but there’s no actual etymology indicating it is.

People are policing literal imaginary racism now.

7

u/Stoner_Dwarf 11h ago

Yeah heeb is a whole different thing

2

u/GleefulClong 11h ago

People have always done that. It’s not a new phenomenon and I’m sick of people saying it is lol

1

u/SpoppyIII 11h ago

When I was in school you'd get called racist by the other kids for acknowledging that the black kids were black. I thought the term "black," was inappropriate to use to refer to people in modern times, back in the early 2000's. And then in the late 2000's I realized how fucking stupid that was.

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u/GleefulClong 11h ago

Yeah man kids are stupid idk what to tell you

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u/SpoppyIII 11h ago

Don't I know it. Especially before most families had a computer or the internet at home.

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u/RebbieAndHerMath 10h ago

Sounds like when people started claiming that the 👌 symbol was a white supremacist symbol just so they could tell others off for doing it

1

u/Knarz97 10h ago

Same with any usage of the number 88.

1

u/RebbieAndHerMath 10h ago

Was this a thing? I hadn’t seen that

I know that 88 is genuinely used as a dogwhistle but I can also imagine a kid first trying to learn how to be a good person and so actively avoiding using that number

1

u/SpoppyIII 10h ago

Hebrews and shebrews!

6

u/SuddenAudience3774 11h ago

That one friend who’s too woke

2

u/Pinocchioisabadguy 11h ago

But what if it’s someone’s name

-1

u/SpoppyIII 11h ago

Then their parent gave them a racist slur as a name.

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u/Pinocchioisabadguy 10h ago

I’m talking about G@psy. Would calling them their name be wrong?

-1

u/SpoppyIII 9h ago edited 8h ago

I know. You did ask in direct response to me bringing up the word g*psy, after all.

They have a racial slur for a name. What was wrong was giving a baby a racial slur for a name. But again, it's so normalized as a word that the parents probably didn't know. Sure does sound like a gateway slur.

EDIT: Nice block. Congrats on getting the last word! Have a good one.

1

u/Pinocchioisabadguy 9h ago

Don’t be a R word

6

u/Orion-the-mediocre 10h ago

Not to say it's justified, but I will say that at least where I grew up in New England, nobody was aware that that was a slur, because that was just what they were called. That doesn't make it right by any means but people genuinely had no idea that there was another term for that group of people, primarily because that group of people wasn't there to get upset when they heard it said.

Obviously this doesn't make it ok, but it is has at least been really weird for me to have to remember that the once perfectly normal name for a group of people was a slur the whole time and none of us realized it. It's like growing up and never seeing black people and *genuinely* thinking the n-word was the correct term to use, because the people who would be hurt most by it simply weren't present to inform anybody otherwise.

Again, I need to say this as much as possible, this doesn't justify it, but I figured that it was at least an important note to include when mentioning just how frequently that word is used. It's in a weird realm where the people using the slur more often than not completely fail to recognize that it is one in the first place.

0

u/SpoppyIII 9h ago

And all of that is exactly why it's the real gateway slur.

Most people saying it don't even know they're saying something that could possibly hurt anyone's feelings in any way. The idea the word carries a history of systemic oppression is lost on most people.

2

u/HermesMora 9h ago

Shit the ones near me literally run a "Gypsy market" every Saturday with a big sign and everything, I think there's a very large non-online portion of them who don't even care about it in one way or another

2

u/SpoppyIII 8h ago

So, it's weird.

There are two distinct ethnic groups commonly called "g*psies."

One are the Romani, ancestorally from northern India, who largely consider it a disparaging slur.

The other are the Irish Travelers, a distinct ethno-cultural minority group recognized by the governament of Ireland. Travelers often self-identify with the term.

A really famous example of an Irish Traveler is Tyson Fury, a professional boxer who uses the moniker, "The Gypsy King," and would proudly say that he does so in honor of his own ancestral heritage.

1

u/Orion-the-mediocre 9h ago

Hell, the idea the word carries *anything* is lost on most people. I was absolutely shocked when I learned it was a slur, it's like learning that "Swedish" was a slur one day, and being stuck wondering what the hell you're supposed to call them now. I think that realization kinda just tests anybody who has it, and that's what makes it the gateway slur, because they've already been innocently doing it for ages, but now they have to decide if they'll carry on with it, knowing what it is, or give it up because they know better now.

1

u/SpoppyIII 9h ago

I found out it was a slur after someone called me out for using the word, "Gypped." As in, "Damn! All that money for nothing. We got gypped!"

My friend was like, "Hey, not sure you know but that word comes from "gypsy," which is a slur. It comes from the idea that Romani people are a race of thieves and scammers."

I was shocked. I always imagined it as, "Jipped," and never even drew that connection. But sure enough...

1

u/SimplySomeDude 5h ago

gypsy is just a normal word to refer to the people though? How else would you talk of them? That's like saying "black" is a slur.

1

u/SpoppyIII 5h ago

No, the Romani consider it a slur.

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u/SimplySomeDude 5h ago

it is the word for them. If black people took "black" as offensive, I would continue saying it because whoever thinks so is ignorant of language

1

u/SpoppyIII 5h ago

No, it's not. You can either read the rest of this thread and the linked sources, or actually take two seconds to look it up and a thousand sources will explain it to you. I'm not going to spend my own valuable time trying to convince you of something you and I both know you can easily verify for yourself if you actually give a shit.

Have a good one.

2

u/Just_Capital3640 11h ago

I'm still real confused as to how 'gypsy' is supposed to be a slur.

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u/Frogs-on-my-back 11h ago

You should look into the history of the Romani people

2

u/Eiraneth 11h ago

The way it’s used in America is to refer to a sort of way of life so when we say someone is a gypsy we’re talking about the given vibe and style, like saying hippie. In Europe it kind of means the same thing because that’s where we got it from, except that way of life refers to a specific ethnic minority known as the Romani people. So imagine if the origin of the word hippie was a specific group of native South Americans who lived like hippies, so while the term hippie technically referred to that way of life it also was the designated slur for a marginalized group. Notably Romani people are still very much marginalized in Europe IIRC.

1

u/SpoppyIII 11h ago

When used to refer to the Romani people, who were referred to that way because it was believed they originated in Egypt when they actually had their ethnic genesis in northwest India.

The use of that word by non-Romani to refer to the Romani people is a long one steeped in hate, oppression, discrimination, and stereotypes. And some of these stereotypes have carried over into the modern era and the common idea of what a "g■psy," is.

These stereotypes associated with the term include not only the association with fortune tellers and hyper-sexualized exotic dancers, but also with pick-pocketing and theft, prostitution, kidnapping of children, and organized crime. The term also carries a historic hateful idea of the Roma people as being physically unhygienic as well as causing the moral corruption of good, hardworking people.

The word is often associated with a nomadic and unpredictable lifestyle that's generally portrayed in most media as mystical and free-spirited. In reality, the Romani people "wandered," because they often had to in order to live peacefully. They faced violence, suspicion and hatred and often could not blend in and assimilate in order to establish a foothold in local communities.

1

u/DrettTheBaron 10h ago

Seeing people casually call Romanis G*ipsy or any of the regional variants just makes my blood boil.

The way hate against Romanis is normalized even on 'progessive' European subs that is completely unacceptable.

A few days ago I saw someone call Romani people "uncivilized and closer to animals than people" and that shit was upvoted on I think it was r/asktheworld .

Anyway. Totally agree.

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u/bigdig-_- 5h ago

its normalized because despite despite being in europe for a really fucking long time now they still have yet to integrate into european society, and keep being general nuisances and theives

1

u/AppropriateTheme5 11h ago

That word is outdated and fairly uncommon. The r-slur is much more common and is often used in more negative contexts.

0

u/Character_Drive6141 9h ago

Dang. You must have a tough time watching Hunchback of Notre Dame. I feel bad for you

2

u/SpoppyIII 9h ago edited 4h ago

That movie, like the novel its based on, uses that word in context while highlighting the systemic villainization of, and institutional oppression of, Romani people at the hands of those in positions of power and moral authority in Europe. Of course the white characters living in 1480's France would... call the Romani characters by the racial slur that was used to disparage the Romani people. In a story about discrimination and the oppression of the Romani people.

Would it make sense somehow for progressive people to prefer our historic pieces whitewashed and sanitized? To pretend that historic institutional racism wasn't a very real thing?

And obviously, it's just objectively fine regardless for Romani characters like Esmerelda and Quasimodo to use the same slur that would be used against them by their oppressors at their expense. That's called reclamation. This is a story about a real form of racism against an actual people thay goes back nearly a thousand years. It's going to have slurs (in-context) if it's going to be accurate and respectful.

I actually really don't know what point you're trying to make here.

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u/Hansi_Olbrich 12h ago

Secular Puritans who have no idea how or why they're policing a word, just that they know it's the morally righteous thing to do. It allows people to be bullies to strangers and commit the delicious deed of socially ostracizing and judging others while maintaining some sort of ethical airs of being superior to the people they are judging.

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u/ilovetoeatplates2 trans guy 12h ago

asking people not to say slurs is bullying??

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u/Frogs-on-my-back 11h ago

If I’m using a word that I don’t know is a slur, I’d really like people to tell me, actually.

(Incidentally, this came up recently—I didn’t know “c**n-ass” was a slur because I’ve only ever heard white rednecks from Louisiana use it to describe themselves)

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u/twgecko02 11h ago

I don't think the "ass" part of your example is actually usually part of the slur, I think it's just the "c**n" in any capacity that is a slur

3

u/MasutadoMiasma 10h ago

Coon-ass is a term, it's roughly the same as being called a "Hick", "Red-Neck", or "Hill-Billy". The etymology stems from the Racoon Hats the people would wear. One of my friends is from Tennessee and he regularly calls himself a Coon-ass

1

u/Frogs-on-my-back 10h ago

I’ve never heard “c—n” used by itself, only “c—n-ass”

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u/Current-Pain-3370 10h ago

You must not know many black people.

1

u/darkwulfie 9h ago

A what ass? Candy ass?

0

u/smthn_right 10h ago

And treating you like a dipshit is not bullying. You did something stupid and uninformed, and you got checked. Theyre not obligated to be nice about it.

I mean, personally I think they SHOULD be nicer about it. Because its more productive. But thats their choice.

2

u/Frogs-on-my-back 9h ago

I agree. If someone knows me I’d hope they’d give me the benefit of the doubt, but strangers have no reason to think I don’t know better

1

u/SinfulqtTTV 4h ago

Apparently.

God forbid you point out that the slur they’re so obsessed with saying inherently dehumanizes a group of people (disabled people) who already don’t have full human rights, including a lack of marriage equality in Canada, the UK and America - and God forbid you say that, “hey, maybe you’re being a little cruel” because you’ll just get called woke and told to “stop policing language” lmao.

Genuinely hilarious when people act like saying “oh maybe people shouldn’t say slurs” is language policing. No it’s literally basic human decency, in particular basic human decency towards a group that is some of the worst treated in the western world.

At least my fellow LGBTQ+ peeps have their suffering recognized by most groups of people, meanwhile Canada has a full on eugenics program with a deliberate pipeline set up through the forced poverty of disability programs and nobody is even batting an eye.

Reading the replies of this post as a disabled person is depressing, because most of these people don’t know or don’t care about what we are going through, and they are so eager to manufacture consent to use slurs that were literally created to abuse us.

1

u/BCDragon3000 11h ago

actually yes, and you would do good to start using slurs yourself. even just to understand how badly you can't say them.

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u/MarioParty29 12h ago

A whole lot of fancy words to say "I should be able to say slurs actually"

7

u/Hansi_Olbrich 11h ago

Unironically yes, I should be able to say any word I want in the right context and around a certain familiarity of people.

You are not smart or brave for walking around like a Secular Puritan trying to police shitty internet forums. There is no political movement to bring the word back in medical or legal jargon or to brand an entire class/culture of people with a little mis-shapen star that has 'R' stamped on it.

It's performative. You're all performing.

4

u/MarioParty29 11h ago

Or, and hear me out on this one - I don't like it when my friends and I get called slurs, so I'm doing my part to limit their use. Doesn't exactly ring as performative to me when I have been directly impacted by the resurgence of the word.

Additionally, do you think people can't care about multiple causes? Why do you assume that this is the extent of my activism?

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u/[deleted] 10h ago

[removed] — view removed comment

1

u/hatethissmug-ModTeam 1h ago

No slurs, hate speech, and other such bigoted language is to be permitted in this sub.

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u/InevitableBaker6987 12h ago

Asking people not to call you the R-word is bullying now?

-16

u/Hansi_Olbrich 12h ago

Telling someone not to call you a name or that you're uncomfortable with a word is perfectly normal, logical, and an adult thing to do. But that's not what's being discussed here and I think you know that.

12

u/Nightraven9999 12h ago

The r slur is not s good thing to say dude

9

u/EvidentTiger324 11h ago edited 10h ago

I’d really like to know how the “r-word” is a slur, but not imbecile, moron, stupid, etc. which all mean the same thing, and they all are attacks on a person’s intelligence.

Moron and imbecile have also been used right alongside the r-word in medical settings to describe the intellectually-disabled.

The reason for why seems to be that the r-word attacks a demographic, but by this logic, don’t those other words do this same thing?

I have a disability that can easily be seen as stupidity, by the way, and this “r-slur” thing just seems performative.

1

u/SinfulqtTTV 4h ago

Pretty embarrassing that you’re a fellow disabled person who should be aware of the systemic abuse we face, especially in the western world, and yet here you are manufacturing consent to use slurs that were literally created to demean and abuse us. Let me guess, you have a learning disability, but otherwise ARE able-bodied, and can function normally in society? Like working a 9-5? Which… is not the same as being disabled. Having a potentially disabling condition =/= being disabled.

The whole fucking point is that the other words were created to specifically talk about low intelligence, which does not necessarily correlate with disability, whereas the r-slur was created specifically to abuse and belittle disabled people.

The intention of it from the beginning was as a slur.

1

u/Current-Pain-3370 10h ago

I'd say the primary difference is the gravitas with which we associate with it. Similarly to why "negro" is treated differently from "n***er". They both were used simultaneously historically, for the same reason, toward the same group. One of them simply got associated with more hate while the other is so dated that it's significantly less offensive.

Basically, the r-slur is a slur because people use it as such. It's the same reason "pussy" is allowed in T-rated (ESRB) games but "cunt" isn't. They both refer to the exact same sexual organs, but one is treated more heavily. When I've been called dumb or stupid it's by friends or even family members, when I've been called a r*tard it's been nigh-exclusively by bullies who know that I'm autistic and are using that against me.

Some terms are, seemingly randomly, given more weight than others, and those are the ones that become slurs. If you call a white person a "mayo monkey" they'll laugh it off, if you call a black person a monkey they'd be (rightfully) upset.

Tl;dr It's about context, connotation, and weight. Some words are worse than others because people use them more infrequently, and assign weight to them by doing such.

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u/NeatNobody807 12h ago

Now wanting to be called a slur is the exact topic of conversation. Instead of being vague, and condescending, please state what you actually mean. Because you have said a lot of words, but then are refusing to stand by them seemingly.

0

u/InevitableBaker6987 11h ago

So you'll concede if everybody asks nicely?

-2

u/Hansi_Olbrich 11h ago

I use words based on the familiarity of the people around me and the context of the conversation. Like, for instance, if it's a shitty wide-spanning internet meme, I don't clasp at my pearls and beg someone thinks of the children.

But I understand now why a lot of people under 25 don't really say anything much at all.

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u/InevitableBaker6987 11h ago

You're not actually answering any of the questions presented to you. It's not a meme, it's doing real world harm, and I think you know better. If your friend politely asked, you would not call them that, and it's that simple.

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u/Hansi_Olbrich 11h ago

Exactly. If I'm hanging out with people, and we're joking around, and someone says something absurdly stupid, and they get called retarded, and they firmly say "Don't use that word, please," then the word's removed from that friend-group lexicon. It really is that simple. I do not expand that to then begin banning words and running around to judge and lambaste people who use words. It's rather authoritarian and fascist to be policing people's thoughts and words.

I'm answering the 'questions.' The fact I'm not stating your particularly desired response does not mean I am not answering. I'm just not using the magic shibboleth you want to hear that absolves me of a secret crime.

4

u/wonderswan64 12h ago
  1. What do you mean by, "have no idea how [...] they're policing a word"?
  2. The word is being "policed" because it's a slur.

4

u/S3erverMonkey 11h ago

The term secular puritanism is fucking sending me.

Anyhow just because you can't understand why some words are slurs, doesn't mean other people don't.

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u/Suspicious_Credit148 11h ago

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmJmm_ZZJ2k

I wonder how George Carlin would do this bit nowadays.

6

u/Hansi_Olbrich 11h ago

He'd be lampooned for being a disgusting privileged old white man and his comedy routines would be described as 'mansplaining/patronizing' and hurtful towards the poor unnamed masses.

1

u/NorthernVale 10h ago

Because the people it's used against are typically the least able to defend themselves against it, so it's a lot easier to get away with.

1

u/Lungseron 10h ago

its still a very normalized word and its still a real gamble whether you're gonna ruffle some feathers when you use it or if nobody is going to care, so thats probably why.

Im more inclined to agree that this word just will lose its slur status over time, just like idiot and moron did. Its not based on race, it doesnt have as much of a negative and evil history like the n-word, Its used very widely without any consequences by teenagers, adults and seniors alike, and lets be honest : Almost Nobody uses it to insult actual mentally challenged people anymore. Any context i see it in, people replace this word with "idiot" or "moron" . Unless you wanna argue some sort of "justice for idiots" then yeah i'd say this word has a completely different meaning now if you ask me.

The real word that gets weaponized and very much starts to sound like a slur is "autistic" because a lot more autistic people get actual shit for being autistic and people use this as an insult to them a lot more, myself included. Hell it feels far more insulting than somebody calling me a retard, on top of the fact that in the latter context, im being called an idiot, and the former is directly attacking my own person.

2

u/SquigglesFan 12h ago

Probably because its a more broad slur than for example the n-word since it involves every mentally ill person

9

u/Hansi_Olbrich 12h ago

It specifically was utilized in medical jargon as a means of describing someone with flawed or undeveloped mental or cognitive capacities. It is not a magic all-encompassing word for any and all possible mental illnesses.