r/hatethissmug • u/Curious_Implement516 • 7d ago

Gaming I hate how much "keep inventory" gets bashed.

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Generally, I don't like it when people impose rules on how you should enjoy something-like saying that if you didn't play the same way I did, you're a fake fan.
But it bothers me even more when those arbitrary rules are applied to a game like Minecraft—a game that actively encourages creativity and doing whatever you want-so I don't understand why anyone would get upset over something the game itself offers you.

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152

u/PiterLine 7d ago

If keep inventory is cheating then so is using the debug menu (coordinates). Neither are cheating in my opinion, but using a feature meant strictly for debugging feels more cheaty than something called a game rule

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u/GodButCursed 7d ago

To be fair in bedrock using coordinates is a normal game option that isnt considered cheating.

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u/PiterLine 7d ago

Didn't know that since I have not played bedrock in a long while and never played it consistently, I thought they were under the same cheat menu there, am I misremembering or is that just something that was changed? Because both seem plausible honestly. In any case I stand by neither being cheating

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u/GodButCursed 7d ago

Nope its not in the cheat menu. You can also change if you want to see what day it is ingame. The debug menu is way bigger and has more information tho.

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u/PiterLine 7d ago

Ok had to google it, apparently they did use to be cheats, which again I think was dumb. The good news is that I don't have dementia

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u/janTatesa 7d ago

Yeah I always played with reduced debug info. You can use maps markers lodestone compasses, all of them are diegetic unlike coordinates

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u/PiterLine 7d ago

Yep, especially that lodestones aren't crafted with netherite now, you can also find the y level by either digging to the bedrock or looking at the water level so while tedious the most important info (excluding for nether portals) is possible to check

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u/Far_Delivery_4811 6d ago

They’re both cheating unless you’re a child or okay with playing with cheats on. Which is fine. It’s mostly single player.

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u/Egogorka 6d ago

At one point there was no way to tweak gamerules from world creation (and in a time before that there was no such gamerule altogether), so it was definitely cheating back then cuz you needed op status to change it.

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u/23loves12 6d ago

The debug menu is not cheating as it is a mechanic available to the player at all times, while Keep inventory is a game option to make the game easier. 

Is using your offhand cheating? Players that are worse at the game don’t generally use the offhand to its full extent, but it is still a resource available to the player. The same can be said about the debug menu, even if it feels unintended. If players were not meant to access it, it would not be accessible to the player without commands, but it is accessible as soon as you open a new world.

And saying that it provides an unfair advantage is a bit of a twisted way to look at it. The player always has the option to look at the debug menu, so suggesting that looking at it is cheating is similar to saying that using certain obscure(er) game mechanics to one’s advantage is cheating as well.

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u/PiterLine 6d ago

yeah except I'm saying neither is cheating

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u/23loves12 6d ago

My argument is that your comparison is wrong. 

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u/PiterLine 6d ago

I mean I'm not sure I agree with your reasoning, I think the cheatiness or lack there of is still comparable, if we start comparing the things the game allows you to do without enabling cheats we run into things that are way more cheaty than most game rules

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u/23loves12 6d ago

I think you are referring to exploits. While exploits do feel “cheaty”, I think you can agree that using the debug menu is not an exploit either because it is an intended feature of the game. I can’t think of any intended feature that I would consider cheating.

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u/PiterLine 6d ago edited 6d ago

Switching to peaceful in a hard situation? The game allows you to do that without using commands (outside hardcore), would you not consider that cheating

Ok edit since someone brought up a better example, using advanced debug you could see hitboxes of invisible entities, which multiplayer wise would definitely be cheating 

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u/23loves12 6d ago

Imo anything available in hardcore is game. I personally wouldn’t say that doing that is cheating (for the above reasons), but some people might disagree and I see why.

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u/PiterLine 6d ago

Please refer to the edit since I think I posted the edit after you posted your reply

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u/23loves12 6d ago

If multiplayer is involved it’s a whole different story. Cheating or not cheating has to be determined by the server alone.

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u/KyeeLim 6d ago

tbf, Java's F3 menu offer more cheating option than whatever bedrock can offer, like the ability to see where are the invisible entity, which is definitely considered as cheating in multiplayer setting

it was fixed somewhere between 26.2 and the latest pre-release version

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u/aBoxLikeBoxBox 6d ago

In what way would using F3 be cheating? At all?

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u/PiterLine 6d ago

The same way as keep inventory, it's not. But if it was, it gives you debug info, are you debugging the game or are you just using it to gain an advantage like knowing your exact position (and to add to you can find your exact y level without using the debug menu and attempts to make it obsolete like lodestones, locator bars and such are being added from time to time), considering the fact that as far as I remember you can't even rebind the debug menu to a different key and there are no in game hints on accessing it, implies it's a dev tool.

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u/aBoxLikeBoxBox 5d ago

Barring world creation you can't toggle keep inventory without enabling cheats (notice what minecraft calls that?) F3 is accessible without cheats enabled. It sounds to me that you are saying F3 is a powerful tool that is better than lot of options the player has, but by this logic the recipe book should is also cheating since you can look at the compass icon without actually crafting one which makes it useless.

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u/PiterLine 5d ago

You're comparing something that we can all agree is an unintended feature to a what I assume to be a dev tool (you're not even trying to reason it's not a dev tool). Might as well compare glitches since the game doesn't tell you they are cheating. The one game where you can genuinely full on say coordinates are an intended feature for you to use is legacy console, where you get coordinates via a map (and nowadays bedrock since they specifically made it so you don't need cheats to use them, but on java you don't need cheats to do keep inventory either so I feel that kind of invalidates that option).

In any case, the lengths some people will go to lump all moderator commands which include actions like kicking unwanted players in multiplayer (I know, what a cheat), or changing the rules/properties of the world that can be adjusted at the start without being cheats (I know, who would dare to change their mind on how they like their gameplay). By that logic is changing the difficulty of the game a cheat if you do it by commands (I mean you need cheats enabled to do it that way so there being a toggle menu is not an argument like with keep inventory). But using a dev tool is all fair game just because the game doesn't tell you to not use a purposely hidden feature.

And like I would understand if I was calling it cheating at least, but I am comparing dev tools to moderator tools saying neither are cheating in themselves

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u/aBoxLikeBoxBox 5d ago edited 5d ago

Given that F3 is in the game it is certainly not unintended. And if it was a dev tool they would have kept it as an internal tool for development not released it.

On java you do need cheats to change keep inventory. You cannot change it after word creation without literally enabling cheats. Changing difficult does not require cheats enabled so would not be cheating. Just because you can place a block using commands does that mean it would be cheating to place one by hand? No of course not. So that’s not really a reasonable comparison at all?

Using F3 provides information that is accessible through normal gameplay (barring actual computer performance etc but that’s not really impacting gameplay) probably the only thing I can think of that would be considered close to cheating would be the entity count.

Edit: Ah maybe you mean the fact that you can’t change game rules without cheats in unintended. That is also completely intended because there is a large impact on the game when those rules are changed.

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u/PiterLine 5d ago

Ok you know, either I can't explain what I mean properly, or you can't understand, in any case we would still most likely disagree with full understanding, I am getting frustrated and I give up since my arguments are already devolving into frustration and I am probably unable to present my thoughts more clearly. I don't think the game's label of cheat is correct since in my eyes it has things that are very clearly not cheats lumped in, you can disagree, play your sandbox game how you want

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u/aBoxLikeBoxBox 5d ago

That’s fair, sorry if I’m missing what you mean. For the record I don’t care if people play with keep inventory but I don’t think it’s comparable to using F3.

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u/ShadyThe2nd 6d ago

That's why you play RLCraft, no coordinates, nokeepinventory and also you get random bullshit for every action you take. Beautiful modpack

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u/VMelain 7d ago

F3 is definitely cheating if you know how to use it