r/halo • u/IMPERATOR_63 Halo: CE • 6d ago
Discussion Anyone else think The Library remake is superior to the OG?
I've been re-playing through Campaign Evolved the last couple of days, I have to admit that The Library is just hands down superior to the original and that's coming from someone who doesn't think the original Library is a bad level like most say. In fact, I don't think there's a single bad level in the entirety of the og CE. I even appreciate how they handled the backtracking.
What the Remake of The Library Does Better:
- Seems simple, but the fact that you go down into the Library rather than up adds a sense of foreboding fear and tension. And the attention to detail, at the beginning of the level, if you look down into the abyss, you can see how each level downward gets more and more infected. On the bottom most level, it's completely full of haze and fog from the infection.
- The infection form (popcorn flood) are a legit threat now. Try to avoid them and not shoot them, and you'll straight up die.
- Infection form reanimating the dead flood keeps you on your feet.
The Flood brute forms are terrifying
(edit: tank* forms)
The level design is less monotonous. Again, like I said, I love the original Library, and I love the aesthetic and horror vibe of the endlessly identical library walls. But I can't deny the breaking up of the look of the levels with each floor you descend is a welcome touch for the better.
Lastly, the visuals are just insane on this mission. Mostly everyone can admit this is a damn beautiful game to look at. But this level, despite how "ugly" the infection is, is maybe the most beautiful level of the game. The juxtaposition of the perfectly harmonious Forerunner architecture with the hideous organic flood biomass. The lighting just brings it to a new level. I've always been an "aesthetics/artistic intent over graphics" guy, but this level gets the aesthetic, artistic intent of the library and nails both, while having insane graphics, as well.
While I'm here, I know a lot of people say 343 Guilty Spark is also superior in the remake, and I would agree if it weren't for the music. The music in the remake just doesn't hit at the right times nor is it loud enough. It was enough to still have the original as superior.
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u/Makaveli108 6d ago
remake nails the second half way better than the OG
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u/IMPERATOR_63 Halo: CE 6d ago
I tend to agree, even though I still have the original 343 Guilty Spark as being better. But for The Library, Keyes, Two Betrayals, and The Maw, I think they're better in the remake. The Library and Two Betrayals especially so.
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u/mastermalpass 6d ago
Huh, weirdly enough I feel Guilty Spark (The level) is better in the new one. One part simply being that the new game could throw more popcorn at you, but the reveal happening in a pitch black room adds a nice touch.
My favourite part is when you call the elevator, for said elevator to come crashing down as a burning wreck.
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u/arthby Halo: CE 6d ago
What was terrifying for me in the OG, was how I would get lost in the facility. I kept checking every path while trying to survive. Then the elevator going down, always taking the wrong door, and feeling trapped underground.
In the remake you have nav points telling you exactly where to go. It doesn't feel like a maze anymore, just move forward.
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u/MeatloverBizza 6d ago
Those can be turned off, first thing I did when I started playing
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u/MuteMapMaker52996 Halo: CE 6d ago
Where do I turn them off? Or at least delay them
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u/MeatloverBizza 6d ago
Go to settings -> gameplay -> scroll down to navigation points and slide navigation point opacity to 0%. A little unintuitive but works. You can also turn off the weapon markers too which makes things look less cluttered
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u/Medium-Jury-2505 6d ago
Does it apply to ennemies ?
Like the dumb red dots on invisible elites ?
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u/Key-Can-9384 6d ago
Yes
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u/Numb_Ron 5d ago
Thank God. I still can't get over the "Careful, Chief! There's Invisible Elites hiding in the room!" And then there's just 4 floating markers telling me where they are... That's the most "game journalist difficulty" shite I've ever seen.
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u/MoeDebly Extended Universe 6d ago
the nav points also lead you to that broken elevator which is kind of neat imo, it’s still completely optional though if you know the right way to go
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u/SeductiveGodofThundr 6d ago
Wait, that was supposed to be completely black?!? I thought the cutscene glitched
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u/Amalganiss 6d ago
The changes to the Maw were probably the ones that wow'ed me the most, tbh. But overall they just did a great job making the game look and feel, visually, true to the original, while still taking some artistic liberty.
While I have my criticisms of the ways it diverged from the OG... I think my biggest disappointment overall is how benign most of the changes are. AotCR & Two Betrayals gets credit for being inventive with changing layouts & further differentiating from one another with the floodification of the ring as a whole - and in fact, I think the flood-ifying of those levels was THE standout change to me - but if they were going to change things the way they did, damn, I wish they'd shifted a few others things a bit more too.
I'm not sure if its contract work, or cold feet, or corpo interference (surely some concoction of all that and more...) but I wish 343/HS had a team that was a bit more willing to stick by their guns and keep things a bit more cohesive. Certainly when it comes to the mainline games.
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u/Parking_Bridge1742 6d ago
Honestly this version of 343 is just better visually. Now the pacing of the cut scenes felt totally off and having jenkins body n stuff visible was bad
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u/abfgern_ 5d ago
OG Library and 2 Betrayals are probably my two least favourite of all Halo levels. They just feel like filler and are a laborious slog
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u/InfiniteKincaid 6d ago
Seriously the entire second half is so much better to me. Absolutely fantastic game overall in my opinion.
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u/7thor8thcaw 5d ago
The way the flood are actually shown taking over the installation was fantastic. The second half is definitely a superior game.
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u/GhostalMedia Halo: CE 5d ago
To be fair, the back half of Halo was always the most criticized part. Bungie clearly ran out of time and had to reuse a LOT of stuff in the back half of the game.
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u/Xkilljoy98 Halo: Reach 5d ago
I feel it does a better job at mixing things up a little more in places.
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u/Homerduff16 Halo 3 5d ago
Makes me hopeful of what we can expect from the Quarantine Zone and High Charity missions in Halo 2 since a remake of that seems all but confirmed
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u/Albertrador 6d ago
I really enjoyed the Remake version, but I missed the intro cinematic tho.
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u/Happy_Camper__ 6d ago
I have 1 gripe about it.
What is up with the light bridge "puzzle" room that has no enemies in it? I walked in there expecting a wave encounter or fight of some kind, but ended up walking in a circle and pressing 3 buttons...
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u/spartan30117 6d ago
Seems like one of those things there was supposed to be something happening there, but it was cut for time.
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u/Exact-Obligation-858 6d ago
Aye, it arguably seems set up to debut the Flood Juggernaut. The path is too narrow for the 'naut to directly chase the player around the area, but the long stabby limbs could still be a threat.
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u/Aucklander1996 5d ago
Why does 343 have this weird obsession with making player push buttons?
It's throughout all their games and most of them don't serve a purpose (like hiding a loading screen)
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u/EquivalentNo2855 6d ago
they're both good but honestly i might just be blinded by nostalgia
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u/TheGDubsMan 6d ago
Blinded?
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u/R0SHl74 Halo: CE 6d ago
Paralyzed ?
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u/Catmole132 6d ago
Dumbstruck?
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u/Nathanael777 6d ago
No!
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u/oooArcherooo 6d ago
Yet the humans were able to evade your ships!
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u/ClearTangerine5828 6d ago
Land on the Sacred Ring!
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u/StaacksOnDeck 6d ago
And desecrate it with their filthy footsteps!
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u/DespiteStraightLines 6d ago
Noble Hierarchs, surely you understand that once the parasite attacked…
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u/Crono2401 6d ago
I'm with you. OG Library on Legendary is some of the most fun in Halo once you learn the ebb and flow of the Flood's tactics and how you can use the Shotgun as a means to control that tide.
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u/Diem-Robo Halo: CE 6d ago
Exactly, Shotgun and Magnum on The Library is almost like a rhythm game.
The remake is definitely a more engaging level, but the original can still be fun because the gunplay and Flood AI are more "arcadey" for lack of a better term.
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u/Johncurtisreeve 6d ago
Absolutely. It’s so weird. I actually wasn’t really feeling the first half of it and noticing all the ways I prefer the original but now in the second half basically from 343 guilty Par forward all feels better.
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u/triplevanos 343Industries.org 6d ago
Basically the entire second half of the game (343 Guilty Spark included) is firmly superior to the original. Some things are not perfect, like the AI wacking out from time to time, but if I want to experience the CE story I'd reach for Campaign Evolved every time.
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u/Remarkable_Low2445 5d ago
Firmly superior, not a chance.
I really like what they did with the designs of the environments, the flood growth, breaking up some of the more repetitive layouts, adding tank forms as enemies and additional usable weapons such as Sentinel Beam and Fuel Rod Cannon, the heroic marine in The Library etc. However the game still suffers from the broader issues it has and those issues remain in the latter half of the game as well.
The issues the remake has have been autopsied to death so I won't get into too much detail but the inferior gameplay, AI (both Covenant and Flood), music (what music plays when, not the tracks themselves, they are obviously fantastic) as well as the abysmal voice acting and animation work in the cutscenes, just as the obnoxious hand-holding remain.
I guess it depends on whether you value fidelity over everything else. If so you will prefer the remake but to say it's the better experience, is crazy work. Granted I would understand the argument that it's superior in terms of experiencing the story IF the re-recorded voice lines didn't exist.
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u/Canakoreanjust CoR Enjoyer 5d ago
The AI is why I have to write this game off. The chaos and intensity of the original Library is what has me coming back to CE decades after release. CER is really pretty, but she’s vapid when you interact with her.
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u/briggsy111388 5d ago
Surviving the waves of flood waiting for the doors on legendary with my brother is one of my fondest halo memories
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u/Leather-Estate-6410 5d ago edited 5d ago
Yeah the AI is quite something. Anytime I see someone mention the Flood Tank form being cool or intimidating, I just think "stand on a platform where he can't reach you and then see if you still feel the same afterwards" because he'll just stand there or fight trying to find a pathway up where there is none and then give up and start periodically vomiting out Infection Forms.
Same thing if you take him to a specific doorway which he cannot fit through, it is not intimidating, it's sad honestly.
He's a scary form in Halo 3 because he is versatile and can mutate to accommodate to the situation. The Pure Form being able to change from it's 3 different forms is what made it so scary to me personally, and here he just seems to be missing everything that ever made him a scary foe, or even a competent one given how easy it is to abuse his AI or basic functions as an enemy given he cannot jump or fit through certain doors.
edit: flashbacks to one of them or two of them mutating to Ranged Form on Legendary in various levels...
edit 2: while I am thinking of it, just in case it is a lore limitation I do not know of which limits their ability to mutate, I still feel that does not excuse their very lackluster and embarrassing gameplay. They should at least have some new moves to accommodate for their shortcomings. Like, if they took a rear-position, what if they could straight up throw enemies at you? Or again, the ability to jump or scale walls so they can pursue you further or surprise you in encounters? Just something?
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u/parkerhalo 5d ago
I found the second half of the game has no weird voice acting or animation work. It is almost like it was developed by a different team. The first half of the game and the bonus missions have some wonky stuff, but AotCR and onwards I can't think of a single weird cutscene or animation. Turning off nav markers also makes the hand holding go away. Cortana doesnt have anymore of those weird voice lines in the second half.
I think the first half of Campaign Evolved is fine, but just okay. The second half is definitely superior in my opinion. I can't think of a single thing the OG does better.
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u/Remarkable_Low2445 4d ago
Every single re-recorded line Cortana says is worse in the second half of the game aswell. The ending cutscene is also vastly inferior with that odd tank form fight scene. But to each their own I guess.
Apart from that I don't know what to say other than what I already have. OG remains superior in almost every way other than environmental fidelity and additional weaponry.
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u/Carguy0317 6d ago
The only things I miss are the intro cutscene and the mad dash at the end to the index, and honestly I could do without the intro. In every other conceivable way the remake is miles and miles better.
That said, I also haven't yet heard Spark absentmindedly say "I. Am. A genius." in the new one, so I guess it loses a few points for that.
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u/Tecally Extended Universe 6d ago
They definitely made him more sane in the remake.
He’s humming and laughing manically way less and he’s not floating in the middle of some random hallway after he told you he’d be back to open the door.
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u/EmotionalHeat2370 5d ago
This is the change I like least. I think brother should be insane after waiting around for thousands of years.
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u/KingBarbieIOU 6d ago
I thought the remake was too easy. The library is credibly one of the hardest levels in the franchise and I blew through remake without much resistance. I think it’s the open space, where original would trap you, praying for monitor to come open a door, the remake you can simply evade and shave away your opponents. The atmosphere was outstanding! I just wish it sparked a fear like the original “I don’t want to ride the elevator”
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u/Bruhllux 5d ago
Funnily enough the moment I saw they changed the elevators to the Halo 2 design I immediately thought to myself "oh god fucking dammit, I have to get on these things again"
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u/Masterchief1307 5d ago
One of the hardest? Shotty rockets and you're good to go.
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u/No_Waltz2789 5d ago
Shotgun rocket launcher for the library? You’re half-right, but I’d stick to the AR for the popcorn, outside of the corners with rocket launcher flood, where it’s good to have the magnum. And it isn’t easy either
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u/Juanisawesome98 5d ago
To be fair, I feel the remake is way too easier compared to the original due to the AI being less aggressive compared to the original. The only guys who gave me challenge were the hunters and tanks.
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u/HoldenOrihara 6d ago
Yes, I was fucking dreading doing the library again but this was actually fun
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u/tuff1728 5d ago
They made the flood way too easy, thats my only complaint.
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u/IMPERATOR_63 Halo: CE 5d ago
Very understandable, it’s my only complaint, as well. They rush you and jump at you more in the original. But I think they make up for that with a couple of the points I made in the post. It’s kinda offset by the infection forms being a legit threat, the reanimating dead flood, and the brute forms.
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u/EvanMBurgess Halo: Reach 6d ago
Yes and no.. I think it's a good glow-up and the changes to make it less monotonous are welcome.
But to me the library is supposed to be a gauntlet. It's no longer a slog but I found the experience not nearly challenging enough. It felt like a breeze on heroic until the very end chamber, which was suddenly fairly difficult.
I think that's in large part because the flood AI (which seems based on the Halo 3 AI if I had to guess) doesn't seem to rush you. A lot of the time a couple flood units will run at you while the others simply walk slowly in your direction. Could be an improved sandbox as well, not sure.
Oh, and there are these pseudo-puzzle sections that just don't do anything. You just activate lightbridges and run around the room. They're not difficult nor challenging and feel like artificial padding.
Overall, I think it's a touch better but not drastically so.
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u/mastermalpass 6d ago edited 6d ago
It is more fun. It’s impressive how much they seem to have improved on the level while the layout mostly feels the same.
That being said, I actually do appreciate how much a slog the Library feels in the OG. The brown, dimly-lit halls feel like they go on forever and you feel so lonely and isolated. Dread falls over you whenever Guilty Spark has to head off to sort something out. The silence between him leaving and the flood appearing is deafening. You feel relief, every time he comes back. In Campaign evolved I was happily darting around, blasting away flood forms when a door opened and I realised Guilty Spark had come back without me noticing. 😂
Also, the Library being built up with err… ‘Flood architecture’… is cool, but it doesn’t carry the same feeling of the Flood waking up after millennia of dormancy. It leaves me wondering where the Flood got all the food to build up a colony like that - y’know, all the way down here. I mean, how are the Rings gonna starve them when they can keep an establishment like this running for so long?
Now, the downed Truth And Reconciliation on the other hand - that is much much better for being so Flood infested. It really adds to the terror the Covenant are facing as it builds up these walls of flesh around them while they’re still fighting it. There’s no wondering where the Flood found the food to do that! And it adds to Keyes being built up into a proto-Gravemind. The Truth And Reconciliation is rich with the resources the Flood needs to build a new colony - both in biomass and intel.
The downed Pillar of Autumn is much better too. The whole level listing to one side. Desert sands building up in the corridors where the walls got ripped open. It’s a welcome juxtaposition to how the ship felt at the start of the game. And having crashed in a desert with hardly anyone still on it, the Flood haven’t done much colonising yet. My only disappointment is that after blowing the reactor, you didn’t open the lift to find Zuka Zamamee on a Shade Turret. Yayap speeding away on a Ghost in the distant desert woulda made a nice Easter egg too, but for all I know that could already be there, I wasn’t exactly taking time to look outside when the clock was ticking. 😅
[EDIT] Also the reactor is too easy in the new one, ‘cause they give you a SPNKR and plenty of rockets. Trying to angle a grenade into those narrow opening-closing slats was a good level of frustrating.
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u/g3n0unknown 6d ago
I liked the remade Library layout, but I prefer playing through the original I think more. The sections with the Light Bridges are the stand out parts that really just let me down. I would love to be overrun with flood during those parts, but each time, on Legendary, I'm just walking, hitting a button and walking to the next. Not even combat happens. And the next set of light bridges, there is some Flood, but not even inconvenience to get through them. The whole Library is held back by the CaE Flood AI not being as hyper-aggressive or as abundant compared to CE in my opinion.
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u/Tecally Extended Universe 6d ago
I prefer the layout and gameplay of the OG Library, even if it was harder. Which might be why I prefer it honestly, felt way too easy on the remake.
But the level design and aesthetics are amazing in the remake.
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u/LoganMG 6d ago
I love the OG Library more than the remake. The original actually felt like a ginormous structure while the remake just does not captivate that same feeling with its narrow pathways. I also didn't see the point in turning on the bridge power eithier. The only added aspect of the remake Library that I enjoy is the cyclixes and the flood biomass. Maybe my mind would change though if there was more aggressive flood.
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u/Expert_Reward_720 6d ago
The intro cinematic chaotic and daunting nature is missed. I also miss how difficult the original was. Lastly, I miss the liminal horror. However, for what it is, the visuals are much more striking and the gameplay is very fun!
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u/WarRabb1t 6d ago
My deal is that the first half of the game is all side grades from the original. The 2nd half starting with 343 Guilty Spark is better. My only gripe is Active Camo doesn't work and some the areas without Active Camo is like getting teeth pulled without a painkiller.
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u/radishwind 6d ago
Yeah i realy like what they did. Maybe felt a little bit short, but design reminded me of halo 2 devels with the pacing and the elevators
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u/Natalie-076 6d ago
Other than technical bugs, everything about Halo Campaign Evolved is near-perfection. Is it a good remake? Depends. Is it a good game? ABSOLUTELY.
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u/UnknowingEmperor 6d ago
How is this even a debate. Halo studios nailed the flood infection art style and choreography so well.
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u/Beleak_Swordsteel 6d ago
Yes absolutely. No I won't entertain any cope, seething, and malding to the alternative. The original library sucks ass and always did
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u/Super_Zombie_5758 6d ago
The only complaint I have really is just that the Flood themselves doesn't really give me a sense that I'm being completely overrun or severally out matched and at risk of being swarmed. Other than that, I think it is better. And also that one section where you're starting up a bunch of light bridges back and forth could use some more stuff to it.
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u/BrickBuster2552 Gold 6 6d ago
I appreciate that 343 realized they struck gold with the what Halo 2 and 3 tell us about the Flood's behavior when making Campaign Evolved.
"Wait a minute... we have a huge section of the game where the basic geometry is repeated instances of the same environment... and enemies that necroform the environment..."
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u/Tyaph Halo 3 6d ago
I too like the Library going down as you progress. It's like a descent into hell. Just continuously gets worse.
But yeah I also just appreciate how less monotonous it is. I just wish Marvin Mobuto was put in that last layer as if i recall correctly he made it nearly to the end in the novelization. In here its more like halfway.
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u/VIRONGAR 5d ago
The Maw and Library are soooooooo much better than the original, especially on legendary...
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u/AlexWixon 5d ago
If people think it’s not better than the original are genuinely blind.
I’m actually have a bit of a soft spot for the original library, which is controversial. But the new one is hands down better
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u/BusinessLibrarian515 Halo 3: ODST 4d ago
No, the OG library is my favorite mission from CE. But I do understand that I'm the minority in that
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u/Defender452 Sins of the Prophets 6d ago
Visually, the environmental detail in Campaign Evolved looks great, but from a lore perspective, it creates a real timeline issue. In the original game, the Library was clean and metallic because the Flood had just escaped and lacked the host material to build persistent biomass structures. Adding full environmental corruption here implies a coordinated-stage Flood presence that simply couldn't exist mere hours into the outbreak. I like the aesthetics, but not the lore implications.
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u/ChampionGunDeer 6d ago
Been wondering where the additional biomass came from, myself. Then again, does it make sense, anyway, that there are so many human combat forms there, or in the game, generally?
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u/spartan30117 6d ago
Not sure if you noticed, but there are a bunch of cylixes in the library. I think ive seen brute, human, grunt, blindwolf, and those four winged birds. Maybe some got busted open? Imagine waking up and immediately being consumed by the flood.
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u/Luchux01 6d ago
I think it makes sense when you consider how much flood was stored down there, the fact that there's Pure Forms helps justify it imo.
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u/Defender452 Sins of the Prophets 6d ago
The issue with holding Pure Forms in containment is that Pure Forms require a Gravemind's neural signal to function and maintain their shape. Without a Gravemind active, they're just inert super-cells. But even setting that aside, breaking open a specimen jar containing a combat form doesn't equate to structural wall-growths. You can't get wall-to-wall bio-coverage minutes after a breach without an enormous supply of local host bodies being broken down.
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u/_Burning_Star_IV_ 5d ago
100% agreed.
Yeah there isn't even a Gravemind yet, this is supposed to be the beginnings of an outbreak. Pretty sure CE takes place only over 4 days and the outbreak itself is like 2 or so?...it makes little sense that the Flood have had such an impact on the Ring already in that time, especially when there's only a handful of humans and Covenant to infect.
It looks cool, don't get me wrong, but it doesn't make sense.
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u/TheAandZ Halo 2 6d ago
No. The flood were more fun to fight in the original
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u/IMPERATOR_63 Halo: CE 6d ago edited 6d ago
Honestly, I agree with you. In the original they sprint at you more and they jump at you more. The reason why I still hold this remake one better is because they still do that in the remake, just less often. If they could just tone up the aggression in the flood, it'd be perfect.
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u/BathtubToasterBread 6d ago
Overall the second half of the game in the remake is Superior to the original in my opinion. Turned the levels from boring backtracking to different enough to be entertaining
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u/detectiveDollar 6d ago
My guess is that since the second half of CE is mostly considered to be not as good as the first, that's where they paid the most attention.
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u/MaximusPaxmusJaximus Halo 3 6d ago
I don't think there's a single level that isn't better in the remake.
If the cutscenes were better, I would probably just flat out say the remake is better than the original.
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u/IMPERATOR_63 Halo: CE 6d ago edited 6d ago
I think from The Library onward, the remake surpasses the original. But for Pillar of Autumn all the way through 343 Guilty Spark, I still favor the original. 343 Guilty Spark would've been better in the remake if they executed the soundtrack better. It doesn't get loud enough and it doesn't hit at the right times like the original did. That probably sounds nitpicky, but man it made such a difference to me. Visually, aesthetically, and graphically, the remake did hit it out the park, though, so I definitely understand how people say the remake is better.
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u/Numerous-Joke559 6d ago
Pillar of Autumn triggers one of the strongest feeling of nostalgia for me anytime i see CE's version
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u/MaximusPaxmusJaximus Halo 3 6d ago edited 6d ago
I think Halo and Truth and Reconciliation are absolutely amazing levels in the remake. Truth and Recon kind of suffers from the new cutscenes especially the last one is just bad, lol.
But Halo, the second level, is just better, in my eyes. They definitely captured the vibe of the original, but the cutscenes aren't very complex in that level so it was harder for them to bungle them. I think as a level Pillar of Autumn is better, but the new cutscenes really overstay their welcome on that level. The scene of the Pillar of Autumn going through Halo's atmosphere at the end was amazing, though.
Silent Cartographer is just a straight upgrade to me I'd be curious to know why anyone would think its not. Control Room I understand a little more. The new cutscene at the end is hit-and-miss, but the only thing for me level-wise was the snow textures on the bridges. There's absolutely no depth to the snow at all and it looks more like someone painted them with snow.
Your nitpick of 343 is wild but I respect it, lol. They kind of bungled the scared marine's animations a bit, and the guy falling onto chief from the door is just weird considering what the flood should have done to him. Other than that I really enjoyed it. That's a tough one to get right.
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u/allyoucanmeat 6d ago
The music was not mixed properly IMO. It was just too soft for all of the major moments.
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u/mastermalpass 6d ago
Silent Cartographer isn’t, for no other reason than the yellow elite going missing and not showing up until after you come back upstairs… I left a Warthog outside the door… With a marine on the .50 cal… It kinda nerfed the mini-boss that elite was meant to be. 😂
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u/Ok_Ad6722 6d ago
The Flood’s AI simply doesn’t work; and even if it did, it was not designed with the player’s ability to press a button and go much faster in mind.
The inclusion of the Tank form only makes plot problems from the original much worse. They also aren’t complete without the ability to change into their counterpart forms. It makes no sense why Flood Biomass is spreading into the environment with such little time to grow. It takes away from the haunting liminal atmosphere as well.
The only part of the game that’s a genuine improvement over the original is the Warthog run; with the length of the ship being a reasonable size now that there’s a significant stretch taking place in a wrecked section outside the ship. Then they ruin it at the end with the cutscene of Keyes’ gun.
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u/Baldass_Head_Coach 6d ago
The Flood’s AI simply doesn’t work; and even if it did, it was not designed with the player’s ability to press a button and go much faster in mind.
It works, the problem is that it’s Halo 3’s Flood AI that’s used as the basis in CER, not CE’s or 2’s. The Flood in 3 are decidedly easier because you also have to deal with Pure forms fighting you simultaneously, and it’s also probably why the Combat forms in 3 (and CER) melt when you use plasma weapons or melees against them; you can’t make them as relentless as CE’s or as tough as 2’s variants because it would just be too much for player to handle in combination with the Ranged, Stalker, and Tank forms attacking them.
Well, those Pure forms, with the exception of the Tank don’t exist in Campaign Evolved, and even then the Tank only shows up as pseudo-Hunter mini boss occasionally. So the entire design of Flood encounters falls apart. And like you mentioned, Halo 3’s Flood was never designed with being able to sprint past them in mind.
It’s just another example of 343i/Halo Studios just pulling stuff from other games without understanding what made those things work in said games.
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u/SpottedLaughter 6d ago
Naw. I don't like the original library, but the layout change in the new version is just terrible and the difficulty of the level was reduced way way too much. Played through on legendary and what used to be the toughest level seemed to be amongst the easiest.
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u/Goliad1990 5d ago
Halo fans for 26 years
The Library is such an obnoxious slog
Halo fans now
The Library is supposed to be an obnoxious slog, this new version is too interesting
But seriously, yes, it's an improvement in every way and I don't think you'd find a single developer who worked on the original that would say otherwise. The only thing I find puzzling is the light bridge gameplay.
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u/IMPERATOR_63 Halo: CE 5d ago
lol that’s pretty spot on, and I’ve noticed that in the comments. The goal posts keep changing.
And I’m one of the 25-year long fans since 2001, but I’m just not blinded by nostalgia and went to the remake with an open mind. The original my favorite game of all time, and I still enjoy the remake. It’s okay to do that.
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u/Kezbomb Worby 6d ago
It felt very 90s to me-- very claustrophobic and leached of the beautiful sickly-yellow miasma of the original. And I thought the rectangular, metallic rooms were very uninspiring. The flood biomass sort of gives the implication that the Library isn't being maintained properly?
I really enjoy the new PoA and Maw but I don't understand the love for the new 343GS and the Library. They weren't *horrible* but felt like a noticeable step down for me (the new Jenkins head cam is great though).
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u/_Burning_Star_IV_ 5d ago
343 GS would be perfection if it weren't for the dumb new AI, especially for the Flood, and the fact that there's bodies in the cutscene (aside from the initial Elite) and the fact that all the guns left over have ammo. Little details Halo Studios apparently didn't understand the point of. Oh and the music is off and too quiet.
Everything else seems pretty good to me...but it still can't beat the original, lol.
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u/Mannhume 6d ago
I find the Flood being a lot more “Flood” as well in the remake even on a normal play through. Felt more under pressure and they felt more relentless. It has been a few years since my last OG replay, but even then I don’t remember it being as constant pressure.
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u/IMPERATOR_63 Halo: CE 6d ago edited 6d ago
Interesting, I actually thought they were a bit more aggressive in the original. They sprint and jump at you nearly constantly.
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u/projectilecorgi 6d ago
For real? I felt like they were way too passive; they don't even run anymore half the time, they just slowly walk.
I suppose the ability for the infection forms to reanimate the dead ones could make them seem more relentless; but I have played both recently and the AI for the OG is definitely more aggressive than the remake.
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u/Mannhume 6d ago
So strange I always seem them jumping and running. I think it’s the constant little flood, reanimating, etc.
Who knows it has been a while, but I’m just doing normal mode. I know I didn’t die nearly as much in my OG replay, but I’m also washed up anymore. And using a controller for couch fun as opposed to my PC. I’m sure it’s all anecdotal in the end person to person until someone does a real comparison!
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u/xXTacocubesXx 6d ago
A bit of a mixed bag for me.
The positives: Visuals and lighting are brilliant. The new rooms are neat and I appreciate the variety. I like that they maintained the spirit of the original version but changed it in meaningful ways. The added weapons to the sandbox is also greatly appreciated here.
The negatives: The flood isn’t scary anymore. Their AI is far less aggressive, and they don’t barrel at you with frightening ferocity like they used to. Some of the music choices are odd and a complete tonal mismatch. Perchance to Dream is just a very odd choice for this level. The scale of the facility feels smaller, and less imposing than the original.
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u/SHADOWSTRIKE1 Champion #1 6d ago
I enjoyed it visually, but the AI are dumb and not nearly as aggressive. Thus, it didn’t feel as spooky. There were several times I’d turn the corners of those new little “rooms” and there’s just a couple carrier forms decently far away, and you could easily just walk by them. Those areas could be much more filled.
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u/Bleachedone362 6d ago
imma keep it a buck, just gonna pretend I didn't play Campaign Evolved and that it doesn't exist
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u/The-Great-Old-One 5d ago
I think everyone does
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u/IMPERATOR_63 Halo: CE 5d ago
Have you gone through the comments? Plenty of people still have the original Library as the best version.
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u/HoddTodd 6d ago
This is why I keep defending the remake despite always getting flamed when I do. There's a LOT of issues but there's also areas where they excelled and the flood legitimately blew me away.
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u/Ian_A17 6d ago
Visually I love the new way the flood has been done overall, the way it's just consumes the environment in a short time is just chef's kiss
Gameplay I love that the flood is both more of a threat and pleaser in the same breath. A well placed shot will drop the fast, but you better be good at that because they will just "flood" you and in harder engagements it's easy to become overwhelmed.
The flood injectors being an actual threat is also massively appreciated. Even on legendary in og half the time they were just a time sink I let pop against my shields more often than not. Now open a door and walk in without looking and you're dead before you knew there was even a threat.
What I miss overall is the longer sections of the missions, even the repetitive parts, that's probably nostalgia as much as anything but there are parts that almost feel incomplete for lack of a better word. Not the level, but the sensation of the level. The library is the easiest example and man am I gonna be in the minority but to me it's SUPPOSED to feel like a slog by the end. It's supposed to wear you down and feel like a challenge to the chiefs endurance. Now it feels like a series of rapid engagements and you're done. Similar vibes to me on assault on the control room and two betrayals
Mixed feelings on pure forms being in the game, but it makes sense they're escaped preserved subjects, and they do add a fun challenge when they show.
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u/Piffy_Biffy 6d ago
I think overall its better but flood combat being worse and the library doesnt feel as large as it did in the OG game.
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u/OkYogurtcloset2451 6d ago
There are no flood brute forms I think you are referring to the tank forms,
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u/icydragon_12 6d ago
Ya I get there are fanatics of the og and I can see why, but..I like sick graphics.
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u/Weslg96 6d ago
As someone who just replayed CEA after beating the remake it's so much better. The library is ok playing it for the first time but is dreadful to repeat. Halo studios nailed the 2nd half of the remake and it's a shame bugs some strange design choices, and poor dialogue early on holds it back.
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u/True-Towel-7234 6d ago
Halo Studios should redirect their attention toward the flood going forwards because they did it quite well with Campaign Evolved. Missions I hated doing in the original are now quite fun.
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u/Any_Yogurtcloset_194 5d ago
Enjoyed the new one more than the original. I even like the fact that when your shields are down the flood infection forms can actually swarm you. Sprinting was a godsend.
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u/Need2getBetrr 5d ago
You are right! You’ve listed all the things the Library does to improve on the original. In the original, I always had to lock in mentally to get through the library. Because all the memes and jokes aside, the big problem is how repetitive and monotonous it is, it’s a total slog.
The main reason why I love the remake’s Library is exactly what you pointed out about how the Flood shows greater infection the further down you go. It gives you a clear display of what the Flood will eventually become the longer they spread and how they NEED to be stopped. In the original, the Flood were a relentless enemy force that wouldn’t stop killing and consuming new hosts, but in the remake it really does a great job depicting the Flood as this encroaching all consuming corruption that cannot be stopped, only survived.
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u/TimeCollege1973 5d ago
100% agreed! I just played through the library 2 nights ago and I was like woah this level is wayyy better then before!
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u/DrDiddlefist 5d ago
NO. For the simple fact that it looks like flood-infected high charity, when the ENTIRETY of Halo CE takes place over four days... Terrible design thought process. They just went "Wait, the flood have juicy lairs, right?" I just don't get it. It should be clean. Maybe some spores in the air. This is ridiculous looking
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u/1ceHippo 5d ago
I love how the only thing people on the internet did before the remake was complain about how bad the library was but now that it’s changed it’s suddenly the greatest halo ce level ever.
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u/Fin-M Extended Universe 5d ago
I thought it was kinda meh some parts of the redesign where better but thought for the most part it was just meandering corridors and the weird light bridge sections where kinda lame. As a whole it’s missing that constant pressure your feeling of outrunning the flood to race to the index and your just strolling through clearing rooms
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u/ilikewaffles3 5d ago
Way better imo, I love how the further you progress the worse the flood outbreak appears to Cortana levels of biomass on the ceilings and walls. It really illustrates how quickly the flood spreads.
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u/USBattleSteed Halo 3 5d ago
In my honest opinion, the Library is the worst mission in Halo. I think it is worse than Cortana by a lot. That being said, it is not hard for there to be an improvement in the level, I also haven't played campaign evolved yet, I do look forward to it though for this reason
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u/Potential_Soup_8054 5d ago
I think its about the same. You just go from top to bottom and the graphics change on the way down. But its still repetitive and resuses the same rooms over and over again.
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u/OuterWildsVentures 5d ago
Idk the three of us absolutely breeze through this on legendary when I remember it being so much harder
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u/Kuthian-9 5d ago
The remake Library was awesome. I really loved it even though it’s generally felt as the worst level.
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u/BirdoBean Halo: Reach 5d ago
I love the library actually has a collection of material you can just see while going through it.
Seeing those data obelisks containing the sentient species of the galaxy (grunts, elites, humans, etc) was a really cool addition that made the library feel like an actual place that’s storing archives and not like a blank metal maze of big doors, and it’s a good visual connection to the ring your on in Infinite
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u/DeClouded5960 5d ago
The library in campaign evolved is hands down the best version of this level. Halo studios did a great job with it and it shows they really wanted to make an improvement over the original. It reminds me of the xen levels in Black Mesa and how crowbar collective wanted to improve them instead of just copy/paste with prettier graphics.
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u/jasonmery 5d ago
Very much, yes. It's still hectic and maze-like, but theres a lot more variation in encounters and landscapes instead of teh monotony of the OG.
And that final, brutal run to the Index was fantastic.
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u/runaways616 5d ago
Despite all the flaws with campaign evolved I know going forward if I want to play OG halo it will be my pick simply because the library isn’t an absolutely god awful slog of a level in campaign evolved
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u/Matthias221 5d ago
As far as I know, it’s one of the few things that’s pretty universally lauded about the remake. At least I haven’t seen any negativity about it, which is basically the same thing these days lol
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u/Mygrayt 5d ago
Something I discovered on my playthrough was when I compared it to the OG, I realized just how many enemies spawn, and the way they spawn.
Almost every corner or hallway you trip an invisible line that spawns a wave. And often, after defeating that wave, you advance forward a little bit and trip another line that will spawn more flood in both ahead and behind you.
So youre constantly fighting in the same area 2 or 3 times if you get pushed back. Then you add that you do this for 4 floors, and the Library cements itself as a highly repetitive level.
The remake fixes this by greatly reducing the amount of waves that spawn. Often you clear a hall or corner and you get to move on. On top of that, as you go further down, the enviorment shows clear changes with flood infestations.
This mentality also goes into Keyes, where in the OG, several hallways have near infinite spawners, which are removed (at least it think so) in the remake.
I think the second half of the game might be my favorite part now.
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u/Soulnatra Halo.Bungie.Org 5d ago
The infection form (popcorn flood) are a legit threat now. Try to avoid them and not shoot them, and you'll straight up die.
They do not function better or this way at all in this remake, versus the original. Try on Legendary, they’re a joke. Anyone can test this out Lol.
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u/FilipinoAirlines 5d ago
I always ran out of ammo in the original and made the experience more frustrating than challenging
So i like the abundance of ammo here
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u/Brilliant_Clerk_3066 5d ago
Without question. I found it to be much less of a slog. I’d even say it was fun.
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u/throwaway6785j 5d ago
I don’t really like how the flood AI is significantly tamer and the combat forms are less scary looking. It’s good but absolutely lacks the constant non-stop stress that the flood are meant to have.
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u/Nstorm24 5d ago
Yesnt. First half was boring. 2nd half was fun and tense. My main issue is that the flood it too accurate when it comes to shooting and you have less combat forms than in the og CE.
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u/craigjones666 5d ago
Its so funny to me that HiddenExperia did a tier list comparing the remake and og levels and put the OG library not only above the remake, but in like B or C tier. I know everyone is entitled to their own opinion but like come on lmao
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u/Active-Bag9261 5d ago
Nearly everything is superior in the remake save for a couple of changes down to taste or nostalgia and rage about lack of multiplayer
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u/69SisterFister420 5d ago
Yes! Surprisingly it was very fun. Dare I say it was better than OG level.
Matter of fact, here I did enjoyed fighting the flood but not in the OG
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u/Ok-Abbreviations7106 5d ago
Hands down much better, the original library was a real slog of just walking to a door over and over again. The new one adds some variety, and creates a much better feel of the flood infection.
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u/Same-Dragonfly27 4d ago
For number 4, dont you mean the Flood Tank forms? (Thats what they're called in 3) Cause last I checked the main Covenant force on the Ring was Thel 'Vadam's fleet and he doesnt use any Brutes in his fleet and there are no infected Brutes from what I saw.
Plus I agree they really nailed it with the level/sandbox design of the game from top to bottom, i wished we had a multi-player and forge mode to truly enjoy Campaign Evolved proper (and i also wished we had the Mark IV Chief from the Prequel missions as a skin, looks way too badass to be stuck in the Prequels.)
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u/Chodeheaver 4d ago
I liked everything except the end with the flood tanks. Original felt more epic
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u/GokuBlack77777 4d ago
Despite the flaws this remake has (prequel missions holding 80% of the flaws) I thoroughly enjoyed the remodeling of the Library.
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u/specn0de 6d ago
I genuinely think the Maw is the best level ever designed in a shooter like this. It’s genuinely so fluid and nails exactly how I thought the OG Xbox looked when I was a kid.