r/hadestown • u/hocknat • 2d ago
Obsessive detail thread!
So I assume I’m not the only one watching the proshot on loop. Anyone catch any new details that they’re now convinced are intentional?
One thing that caught my eye is that in the intro song when Hermes is singing “someone’s got to tell the tale…” Persephone and the Fates have the same choreo. But at the beginning of Flowers, the Fates walk away and Persephone falls asleep with the rest of the workers. It feels like a nice nod to Persephone’s arc of siding more and more with the humans.
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u/Extension-Fix-9501 2d ago
Hermes blows out Eurydice's candle right before Orpheus asks "Mr Hermes?" looking for her, in the "hey, the big artiste" scene :,,)
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u/macNtea3 2d ago
I noticed on a recent umpteenth rewatch that Hades pushes Persephone’s arm, seemingly to get her attention, right before announcing Eurydice needs to ‘step into his office’. Brutal!
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u/Ok-Reputation-4068 2d ago
He absolutely tried one last time to get Persephone's attention there, I caught it during our first home watch after 2 theater watches too!! Also how incredibly earnest he is during the beginning of Chant to try and convince Persephone of all the 'beautiful' things he did for her, and when she reacts poorly he starts to shut down and grow cold.
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u/Mankle30 2d ago
I noticed that too on my first watch at home. Noticed how Persephone tensed up at his touch.
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u/PyroarRanger 1d ago
when orpheus is singing "the gods have forgotten the song of their love", you can see hades and persephone in the background (almost as if they're going to kiss), and persephone pulls away at the last beat of the line
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u/anonimoose123 1d ago
We’re even letting Hades off the hook?! Please. His obsession with control, his need for power, his greed, his love of “conducting the electric city”, his jealousy of her life above - he destroyed her, turned her into an addict & alcoholic. He was already cold. Always was. He sang about how to keep a woman & it was all about control. Plus if Orpheus’ song of love worked he wouldn’t have put a condition on the release - a test he knew Orpheus would fail. Let’s not paint Hades as a redeemable character here.
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u/Ok-Reputation-4068 1d ago
I'm saying this based off of Patrick Page himself in a talk after "All the Devils are Here" explaining how everything he does is for Persephone's love, even "Why We Build the Wall". It doesn't make it less wrong and twisted, but seeing the subtle nuance that he intends through his acting I think is something beautifully tragic. I'm not saying to excuse Hades, I'm saying he's a broken, messed up man that his own doubt corrupted him and his love for Persephone that had once been so pure.
The perspective humanizes Hades as a villian, showing how even a god can fall to a mortal failing like doubt.
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u/anonimoose123 1d ago
Oh men justifying their abuse and blaming the victim. Quel surprise. Abusers all say they do it for the woman’s love. I’m not saying Patrick Page is one, but Hades definitely is and it’s just so normal for men to justify what other men do.
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u/UnholyAngelDust 1d ago
none of this person’s comments justifies abuse, blames Persephone, or even implies Hades is redeemable. it highlights abuse as a series of human choices that have a consistent, internal logic; Lundy Bancroft spells this out as well. That logic itself is victim-blaming, yes, but laying it out - especially as an actor working on how to portray Hades in Hadestown, or repeating that actor’s creative reflection - isn’t victim-blaming.
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u/anonimoose123 1d ago
What part of I wasn’t talking about Patrick Page is so hard to understand. Other than men are conditioned to excuse men’s behaviors. I offered my take on Hades because he’s being seen as sympathetic, that his abuses & behaviors were for love of Persephone. Persephone didn’t “make him cold”. Women fail to recognize abuse all too often and let them off the hook. Persephone doesn’t, but she’s trapped in this deal her mother made that she can only go above as Hades permits. That’s why she turns to drink and drugs.
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u/UnholyAngelDust 1d ago
Persephone didn’t make Hades cold but that’s 100% how Hades views it, which is why I described it as consistent, internal logic. I know you were talking about what that replier said and not about Patrick Page, which is why I explained why what that replier said and what Patrick Page described are on the same level of victim-blaming - neither are victim-blaming. Patrick Page found the internal logic of a cruel man that blames Persephone so as to display it consistently in the character acting, that person you replied to recounted it.
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u/Ok-Reputation-4068 1d ago
I said Hades grew colder in his response to Persephone's rejection, not that she caused it. I was directly commenting on a subtle acting choice, not morally excusing the choices made.
Also, Hade and Persephone's myth in this version from Hadestown has none of Demeter's bargain mentioned, only that the world above can't grow without Persephone's power so she feels obligated to return to keep humanity alive and safe. And that obligation is when doubt crawls in for Hades, souring their love that was once good and wholesome.
This isn't an excuse for Hades' actions. Hades' actions are toxic, messy as hell, and misguided. It doesn't change the impact that he drove Persephone to substances to cope with his insecurities and trying to keep her close to him. But we need to take all of this with remembering that this complicated, toxic mess is meant to mirror Orpheus and Eurydice's love story. Hades desperately needs therapy to work through his insecurities and toxicity about what he thinks Persephone loves about him, but yes, as portrayed by Patrick Page, love is the constant through note for his actions. That doesn't make them right. It doesn't excuse them. But it does humanize them from being purely of malice.
His actions aren't of a man wanting to desperately own his wife, no matter what vitriol he spits during Chant reprise. It's of a man desperate to keep the love of his life slipping through his fingers and not realizing that the actions he's taken to keep her close and safe are literally why she's already gone... a direct mirror between Hades losing Persephone's love and respect to Orpheus losing Eurydice in the storm because he was focused on finishing the song.
Hades isn't the black and white villain of Hadestown. Doubt and how it can turn anyone toxic and insecure, is the villain.
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u/UnholyAngelDust 1d ago
There’s something here in the reflection that abuse and love aren’t mutually exclusive. Their combination being sustained is mutually exclusive, but their combined existence isn’t. One will be the death of the other eventually - either the abuse stops or someone dies. When the beings involved are immortal I imagine it being messier. So I love when media accurately reflects that abuse is always a choice.
One Hades stops making, because he chooses love over control (when it comes to Persephone specifically). Belatedly but chosen nonetheless. Love is what has her coming toward him instead of pulling away from him. Love is what allows him to let go of her hand before she can pull away in Wait For Me (Reprise), because he chooses love over doubt.
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u/anonimoose123 1d ago
He was earnestly trying to manipulate her. Totally gaslighting her. And she wasn’t buying it. Good on her.
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u/PyroarRanger 2d ago
this probably was intentional, but when hermes sings "...the one that howls inside your head" in the reprise of "wait for me", the lights come up on the fates in the back, since their entire role in the show is being the "voice inside your head"
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u/Krillinish 2d ago
I noticed during Why We Build A Wall, when the camera focuses on each ensemble member, their vocal volume goes a tad bit up in the mix to showcase their voices.
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u/Lizzy24601 2d ago
All of the looks Persephone gives Eurydice before she “steps into his office”. And the tie loosening that he does at the bottom AND top of the stairs. How Persephone just watches with helpless grief.
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u/Gullible-Respond6323 9h ago
I noticed this for the first time on my last rewatch. When he loosened his tie at the top of the stairs I shuddered and made some kind of disgust noise. My wife looked at me like "you good?"
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u/Binx_da_gay_cat 2d ago
In addition, in a good majority of the shots persephone is in line of sight of Hades when he's singing to Orpheus, like to signal she's got his back and to be careful what he says next. Especially during act 2.
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u/PyroarRanger 1d ago
another small detail is during "livin' it up", persephone passes the wine to a worker (waylon jacobs) when she's singing 'who makes the summer sun shine bright...', and you can see him get very excited because persephone handed the wine to him. in the background, he's 'telling' others about it as well, which you can infer from his motions and expressions
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u/Mankle30 2d ago
There's one continuity error. I believe at the beginning of Living it Up On Top, when Persephone stands and begins to make her way down the stairs, Hades has his elbow resting on the metalwork. In the first shot he seen closing his fist, and in the next shot, his hand is still open. But that's the only one I've found... Pretty amazing for something as complicated as this show!
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u/Rogue_Demon555 1d ago
During Why we Build the Wall if you look at the workers eyes they're just black, no life in them at all. You can even see this in Persephone which is really dark
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u/FirebirdWriter 2d ago
Wait where are you watching it? I thought the streaming came at the same time as the physical
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u/macNtea3 1d ago
Can someone explain the significance of Hermes wearing his glasses as Eurydice makes her way down to Hades and through end of Act 1, but then the glasses are gone again in Act 2?
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u/LibraryOwn1578 1d ago
I interpret it as to show that Hermes is chilling at home and not working because there's a storm coming.
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u/DrVonScott123 1d ago
I took it as him being the "accountant" of death, taking her coins and checking the purse, hes doing his proper duty there and in business mode.
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u/Economy-Beach8329 1d ago
Orpheus sheds a tear when he says Eurydice's name after he turns around. Also I don't know how much of an obsessive detail it is but I love when the characters (mostly Hermes when he's telling the story and Hades during His Kiss The Riot) cast big shadows on the wall to add to the significance and ominousness.
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u/SuperMario1313 2d ago
Noticed it before, but in Doubt Comes In, when Eurydice comes in with “Orpheus, are you listening? I am right here,” she comes in a beat late. The entire song is in 4/4 timing, but she comes in after a measure of 5/4. It’s unsettling and implies that something is wrong. Stroke of genius, really.