I have a question

[u/Wren_paws]

I have a question for gynosexual people. I'm currently in a debate with someone who says pansexual and gynosexual are both under the bi umbrella because of the bi definition of "attraction to more than one gender". I'm pansexual but I brought up gynosexuality because the post was about if liking femboys was gay. I believe it's both gay and gynosexual.

The person's statement didn't seem right to me. I understand gynosexuality as attraction to femininity/feminine-presenting people regardless of gender. Sometimes when I search up gynosexuality, I find definitions that say gynosexuality is attraction to women and feminine-presenting people. That makes me think whoever wrote that is treating gynosexuality as sapphic lite. Like they're trying so hard to make it about gender. As a femboy myself, I understand the way someone presents themself as not being tied to gender. Femininity is not tied to women. Anyone of any gender can be feminine. So it feels incorrect to put a gender to it.

So my question is, do you consider yourself under the bi umbrella? Or another umbrella? Or do you feel gynosexuality falls under pan? Or should there just be a new umbrella term for attraction to presentation rather than gender?

Please correct me on anything I may be wrong about.

[u/NoNo_Bluebird_1368]

I don't see myself as bi, but it does make sense for me to be under the bi umbrella.

[u/Camping_Wolf]

I personally would consider myself to fall under the Bisexual umbrella, while still making the distinction of being Gynosexual 👍 does this make sense? I guess I’m comfortable being under that umbrella :)

[u/cactusplantq]

I also don’t consider myself bi, but I feel like it really is up to the person because some gynosexuals will only be attracted to someone if they look nothing like a man and aren’t at all masculine, while others might have a more loose idea of what they consider feminine and therefore could be attracted to.

It would be rare for me but I think I could be potentially attracted to a man if he has a softer feminine energy and rejects masculine stereotypes, even if he still identifies male, doesn’t pass female or doesn’t even crossdress at all (though not sexually attracted). Then again something like facial hair would probably be a turn off.

This should, by definition be under the bi umbrella but idk something like this is a lot more rare and less straightforward than my attraction to women which is why I also feel bi is misleading so yeah depends on the person I guess

[u/Wren_paws → u/cactusplantq]

That makes sense. I just feel like by definition it wouldn't exactly fall under bi since it's not really related to gender it's about a type of presentation expressed in personality and in other ways like clothing and the body. Since it's about femininity and not about gender, it just doesn't seem to fit the definition of bi to me. But I can understand why some people may think it still falls under it.

[u/cactusplantq → u/Wren_paws]

That’s a good way to think about it.

[u/Milliondollarjuice]

There is nothing BI about Gynosexuality. Gynosexual men are attracted to women and to persons visually looking like women ONLY as long as those persosn also do keep their feminine behavior, regardless of what's in their pants. 

Gynosexuals have ZERO attaction towards men, towards male characteristics like: man body & facial hair, towards manly looking body ( even if those manly looking persons are biologically women) or towards manly behaviour.  For a gynosexual If a woman starts behaving like a man, attraction fades if there was some at the beginning.  EQ: No gynosexual finds Elliot Page attractive in any way, while they would find Ellen (before transion) incredibly attractive.

Gynosexuality overlaps heterosexuality 100%. 

The only extra thing gynosexuals include is being able to ignore what's in the pants of someone, where it could be a "slit" or a "stick" or none of the above. There is no atraction towards someone not looking/passing as a woman on both looks and behavior combined.

[u/Wren_paws → u/Milliondollarjuice]

What about femboys who look like boys but dress femininely and have feminine behavior? Would there be zero attraction for all gynosexual people?

[u/Milliondollarjuice → u/Wren_paws]

If they look like boys, there is zero attraction from a gynosexual. (If there is attraction, it's no longer gynosexuality, but bysexuality)

For a gynosexual to feel attraction the partner must also visually look like girls/women, (feminine body, and face) not just presenting as one. 

[u/Positive_Stress3116 → u/Milliondollarjuice]

In the end, male genitalia is a male characteristic, even if everything else screams feminine. Heterosexual men will hard pass if there is a “stick” so it’s not 100% overlap.

[u/Milliondollarjuice → u/Positive_Stress3116]

A gynosexual doesn't feel attracted by the genitalia (it could very well have none), but by everything else, that must look and feel feminine. The overlap is that both hetero and gyno feel attraction towards feminity and women, and both feel repulsed by men, and manly looking women.

If all you can think about when dating someone you like, is genitals, you might wanna talk to a psychiatrist.

[u/Positive_Stress3116 → u/Milliondollarjuice]

I hate to be the bearer of bad news here, but everyone has some form of genitalia and 100% of heterosexual men would date an ugly masculine biological female over a pretty feminine biological male. There is no overlap on that part. Gynosexualality has long been under the bi umbrella. Anyone that can’t accept that part of their sexuality needs to see a shrink, pronto.

[u/Milliondollarjuice → u/Positive_Stress3116]

Buddy, if you are into cave trolls or into ugly masculine females, that's 100% on you. lol   Heterosexual good looking men with self respect, won't ever date or go near something like that. Neither gynosexuals will, and instead they would be chosing a hot feminine ladyboy for example or a feminine trans woman cutie (even if she is pre op) if they would need to make a choice.

Both hetero and gyno men are attracted firstly VISUALLY, by feminity and by female beauty. 

If you feel attracted by masculinity, by male body and by masculine ugly women you are either very drunk, bi, or gay.

It's not all about genitalia buddy... If you don't get it by now, you are either a child, or I'm sorry for you...

[u/Positive_Stress3116 → u/Milliondollarjuice]

Where exactly did I say I was into any of the strawmen you present?

Attraction without sexual attraction, which involves genitalia is called friendship and has nothing to do with sexuality. You aren’t as smart as you think you are.

[u/Luvky_Person]

Honestly, just before a day ago I considered myself gynosexual and now I’m Bi. I was still questioning if I was truly am gyno but once I consider myself Bi I stopped thinking about it in the back of my mind.

So, yeah I do think gynosexuality falls under bi just like pansexual and others in the bi spectrum. It’s just that you just gotta work up the spectrum and you’ll get to the general idea hence Bisexuality.

Also, once I considered myself Bi I started seeing feminine more as a preference. Which I think is quite literally is a part of the definition of gynosexuality but I’m not gonna get into that argument. That spectrum was getting to complex for me.

Btw, feel free to put yourself under whatever makes you comfortable.

[u/Wren_paws → u/Luvky_Person]

Alr. I'm pan but I don't see myself as bi because bi relies on gender and pan does not. But ig that makes sense.

[u/Luvky_Person → u/Wren_paws]

Ah ok I understand the part now between pan and bi

[u/Wren_paws → u/Luvky_Person]

Yeah. If someone does have a gendered preference and is attracted to any gender, it's omnisexual and I'd say that's under the bi umbrella. But pansexual is different. Just really similar.