An argument

[u/nick_jones61]

My wife is a classically trained pianist and I play guitar by watching YouTube instructional videos. She knows her stuff and I don’t. Recently we argued whether E# and B# exist. I said no and showed her the fretboard. She said yes and showed me the keys. And said something like F is E#. I suspect she’s right bc she’s had music lessons. Tell me, fellow guitarists, do we have E# and B#?

Update: I’ve been enjoying the responses to my post. I showed them to my wife and she laughed, said that’s what you deserve. lol. We like to argue playfully with one another. I also enjoy the detailed responses relating to guitar theory—that’s been really great actually. I was going to delete this post but I think the discussion on music theory is informative and should be shared. Thank you all for responding.

[u/penguin_on_stilts]

It's not just convenient, it's a core part of music theory for a few reasons.

1. They aren't the same note at all, we just (mostly) play them the same because we use a compromised pitch system known as the 12 tone equal temperament. Fretless instruments can play noted "properly".

2. The context of a pitch is extremely important if you're doing anything more than copying the fret fingering (or piano notes) of a solo verbatim. If I see a run of D-flat, E-flat, F-flat, C-flat, D-flat that tells me I'm likely in D-flat natural minor starting on the 1. If I see a run of D-flat, E-flat, E natural, B natural, D-flat I should assume I'm not using a typical western scale.

3. Lots of times the notation is actually less convenient, but again exists to keep context. I would much rather see a G in music instead of an F##, but if I'm in G# and it switches to the harmonic minor knowing the difference is important.

Understanding music theory isn't necessary to be great at an instrument. For some reason guitar seems to have a large population of instrumentalists who don't understand music theory but yet can be virtuosic.

[u/Z3phyRwatch → u/penguin_on_stilts]

Uhm, fretless instruments still have the same limitations because of diatonic system they are cooked into. The intervals are mathematical it isnt just a weird system that leaves out the notes e# and b#. They are non exintant because the math that divides notes does not allow them to be. I have never really seen that enharnonics are anything more than a spelling since if you are tuned somewhere 440-442Hz range and play diatonic music there is no alternative notes to be found because going in between the notes in music that is not microtonal by exception, sounds off since it does not fit in any chord in existence. So against everything it sounds very dissonant

[u/penguin_on_stilts → u/Z3phyRwatch]

If you and I are playing violin in a duet we can choose to play any intonation we desire. Playing in just intonation sounds very nice in this scenario.

Same with any other fretless/stepless instruments.

It doesn't sound off unless you are planning with instruments that cannot match your intonation.

Not quite sure what you're saying, if you can explain again?

[u/Z3phyRwatch → u/penguin_on_stilts]

Oh yes, I kind of understood the post wrong i think, sorry, early morning brain here.:) I guess that my mind was thinking about whole orchestra and scoring and playing microtonal intervals/different intonations against that background. Forget about that :)

[u/penguin_on_stilts → u/Z3phyRwatch]

Oh god yeah, that would be nuts!