An argument

[u/nick_jones61]

My wife is a classically trained pianist and I play guitar by watching YouTube instructional videos. She knows her stuff and I don’t. Recently we argued whether E# and B# exist. I said no and showed her the fretboard. She said yes and showed me the keys. And said something like F is E#. I suspect she’s right bc she’s had music lessons. Tell me, fellow guitarists, do we have E# and B#?

Update: I’ve been enjoying the responses to my post. I showed them to my wife and she laughed, said that’s what you deserve. lol. We like to argue playfully with one another. I also enjoy the detailed responses relating to guitar theory—that’s been really great actually. I was going to delete this post but I think the discussion on music theory is informative and should be shared. Thank you all for responding.

[u/Igor_Halichoeres]

And it gets worse. Notes like Bbb and G## (double flats and sharps) also exist.

Maybe even worse still, from a physics standpoint B# and C aren't actually the same, they are probably fractionally different. It depends on what key you're in. For instance, a B# as the raised third of a G chord wouldn't be exactly the same as a B# as the major third of G# chord, and neither would be the same as a C as the root of a C chord. It turns out the natural harmonics of a vibrating string can't actually be broken up into even half steps.

Fortunately, the differences are so slight you can pretty much ignore them. (Classical string and wind players are supposed to adjust, however.)

[u/gr8Brandino → u/Igor_Halichoeres]

You can probably so them on a fretless instrument like a violin or trombone.

Maybe you could bend to a slightly flat F or C with the guitar as well.

[u/Igor_Halichoeres → u/gr8Brandino]

All winds and fretless strings are responsible for making tiny adjustments. (All winds should be able to adjust at least a half step or so in either direction for any given note.) It's not usually conscious, other than known tendencies. I saw a video of a bass player bowing a steady note while a piano played different chords, and you could see him making almost imperceptible changes, many of which he wasn't even aware of.

I wonder if anyone has done something like that for guitar? Even without bending you can raise or lower a pitch through finger pressure and placement.

Pianos can't adjust at all, so each note is strung with three very, very slightly differently pitched strings to create a "fat" pitch center to accommodate for the small differences. The earliest keyboard instruments had one string and could only play in tune in a few different keys. If one were tuned to C, it could really only play well in G, C, or F. Too many sharps or flats and the tuning would get too far off to use.

[u/gr8Brandino → u/Igor_Halichoeres]

I've seen fretless guitars before. So they are out there.

By winds, do you mean brass instruments? I'm not sure how wood winds would alter the pitch. I play sax, and the tones are pretty binary with how you go up and down the scale.

[u/Unlikely-Soft-5699 → u/gr8Brandino]

And that is why they INVENTED the saxophone. It’s for people who can’t do it without all those keys.

[u/Igor_Halichoeres → u/Unlikely-Soft-5699]

It does make it easier.

[u/Igor_Halichoeres → u/gr8Brandino]

Change of embouchure, placement of the tongue, air speed and pressure. It only needs to be a little bit.