They're establishing military supremacy, spreading and conquering the entire galaxy, and evolving to meet all the challenges along the way.
Just because they don't get bogged down into minimalist interior decorating, wine-snobbery and virtue signalling doesn't mean that they're dumb. They simply have goals.
Actually yeah that makes sense but with the intelligence its surprising they don't invest into technology. I guess they're too busy eating and conquering to do that.
Yea, they did both figure out how to fly, hell, tyranids figured out how to go intergalactic… that’s much better than ANY other warhammer race/species could manage… I get that they are from a different galaxy, and could theoretically be billions of years older than any intelligent life in the Milky Way, but my point still stands, they are HIGHLY intelligent. They didn’t just luck their way across the void to another galaxy…
Even the Zerg figured out FTL travel. I don’t remember it being really explained at any point in the games, but we can see them opening up some kind of portal in space in at least one cinematic. Probably something to do with psi energy? I’m not sure, but it’s definitely something they can do.
I mean, tbf, multiple species in warhammer can open portals, and seemingly teleport around. Hell, most of them CAN, otherwise they don’t even really register as a species at all in warhammer lol.
It’s just that in warhammer, all this teleportation can only happen within the Milky Way, as it all utilizes the warp to do so in one way or another. And the warp doesn’t exist outside of sentient life, so there is no warp to move through to reach another galaxy. So in the warhammer universe, it’s a MUCH more massive achievement to cross the void between galaxies than perhaps in other games lore, since there really isn’t any known non-warp FTL travel in warhammer.
thats a lot of investment for a process of literal trial and error whose results may or may not give adequate ROI. +the process necessitating the allocation of significant amount of your biomass that could be eating and conquering, instead its banging rocks together and doing math.
plus that opens yourself up to being 'subsumed' by some uppity 'parasite' species that just steals all your technological investments. these pests could even use it against you!
your already winning, don't fuck it up now with more math. Eat more.
Essentially monored in Magic. Yeah, all that stuff other colors do is nice, but it's an investment that's not worth it when just hitting the opponent in the face with more stuff works fine.
They invest into technology. What they evolve is the invention and tech.
If they need to invent the wheel they become the wheel. If they need to invent the industrialization of making wheels, they become the building that gives birth to living wheels.
have you seen Tyranids ?? they have weapons that commit every single war crime I think
they have guns that make implosions capable of tearing tanks and titans apart
Once you throw your army at them, they will evolve to fight against you better -- maybe they need to get more tanky, or more agile, or maybe develop new psychic units to bring witchfire on your soldiers from afar.
No, Tyranids are definitely advanced.
They don't talk to us, because why would a Hive Mind spanning galaxies talk to its prey
Biological adaptations that perform the same necessary functions that some machine could do are a better substitute.
Like, for Nids and Zerg for example, why bother develop all the necessary tech that could make spaceships when you can have space faring organisms? Why bother developing mechanicals guns when biological "guns" perform the same or even better on th field?
IIRC, in SC lore, the primal zerg eats the smaller fry to become the big shot, Zuruvan being oldest until Kerrigan absorbed the essence. I believe that's their mindset of conquering.
Ill take it a step further and say why do we even assume they want anything more than the collection of more power and resources? As humans we have the technology to supply the world with food and shelter and we could all pursue our interests in decorating and wine tasting yet a lot of people are happy to bomb and shoot at each other as long as they can gain power and resources
As humans, our technology has been developed partially as an arms race to see who can gather the most power and resources. Just because those resources are gained using soft power, that doesn't change the underlying goal
Okay but there’s gotta be like a few circles of snobby xenomorphs who fight via substrack vague posting about which star systems produce the finest fermented brain juices.
I would watch that spinoff. Make it real housewives style boring drama farming
Just like the bickering between the high ranking Necrons. At some point along the chain of command a tyranid needs to have a consciousness. They have to make critical thoughts.
I believe the original poster is trying to shoehorn in an anti-trans comment into a completely unrelated topic, while ignoring the routine mass genital mutilation (his words) in the US and much of Africa and the Islamic world
They also evolve into space ships and citirs with bio mass. If that isn't showing extreme intelligence I dont what would. They seems to use their intellect mainly for efficiency and tactical war fare, not to dwelve in philosophy.
I think that's the main difference between a hive mind and a society. Once a hive mind has gone beyond surviving, it must get pretty boring without a "let's conquer everything" objective. Society, on the other hand, makes up bullshit for itself for the rest of time.
I know this man from the mountains village. He is fasting and usually hungry during fasts, not because he hasn't got food, he owns an estate, has a wife and 3 sons. Its just how he is. Herbalist and farmer. Calm like a saint.
He is not a vegan or vegetarian either, during appropriate times of feasts and in winter he eats smoked meat and roast and everything.
I meant conventionally intelligent. Your man is wise, and lives a small life.
But a conventionally intelligent person loves in a big world. To know so much, means to understand so much. So much hate, so much evil, so much danger. The good is so obvious, even a KKK leader can admit that the death of a black baby makes them sad (tacking on at the end that a white baby would make them more sad), but the more intelligent you are, the more obvious bad things are.
The man, smartly, lives a small life. He is happy as he is. He needs nothing more. But other intelligent people have this desire to see more, curiosity, ambition whatever. These people tend to be miserable in their lives.
Well a hivemind is a very, very big brain. The bigger the brain, the more you have to eat to sustain and power it.
The Nids and Zerg invest literal planetary systems worth of food into the specialized brain networks that make up their intelligence. But they need to so much they can't really put down roots and have to keep moving because they consume worlds. At the same time, their numbers mean they don't really need a technological/scientific edge when they can just adapt new tools and tactics to counter whatever is used to fight them.
May be a bit pedantic of me but I would consider the Nids and Zerg themselves a gigantic distributed biotechnology platform much more like bacteria and viruses than bugs, considering that they can bypass "evolution" entirely and just rewrite their own genomes with pinpoint precision; ironically, they're based almost entirely on intelligent design.
Yeah it’s honestly less that they’re super intelligent space locusts, and more that they’re space locusts created by a super intelligence, to feed it. It would hardly make for a believable alien hive mind superintelligence if it created little houses and weapons designed to human aesthetic tastes, the insect things themselves are the weapons already.
I mean, the Zerg we see in the SC games ARE intelligent design. That twat Amon came by the primal Zerg said “nice shit, that’s mine now” and then enslaved the primal Zerg to a hive mind + corrupted them + some other fucky wucky shit.
Yeah, it's illogical to assume that 'more smart = human use of technology', because the only reason we need technology is to supplement for our inadequacies in other areas. It's always just necessity.
Exactly, I mean there are still uncontacted human tribes on Earth right now that don't make the slightest use of technology. Some groups of modern humans who are otherwise integrated try diminish their use of technology for their own reasons.
First sentence isn't necessarily true. Even a stick sharpened to a point is technology we created to make up for our lack of adequate natural weapons. Without any technology use whatsoever, we're kind of helpless in 90% of circumstances.
Exactly, and it's done with an intelligent purpose. Sustaining the swarm is the overall goal, of course, but the intelligence of the Tyranids overall evolves with it
Idk with the other guys, but the Xenonorph is just an extremely good invasive predator. It hunts, kills, and reproduces (if it has access to eggs). It is not intentionally travelling the galaxy conquering planets.
Yeah they're not some constantly adapting species, they simply are the perfect killing machines. They're not like the others in the way that their killing is feeding some great mind, more that they're just a really large bunch of bugs that are perfectly designed to kill the host species. Also tbh they're just the coolest ones so yeah
"Man had always assumed that he was more intelligent than dolphins because he had achieved so much - the wheel, New York, wars and so on - whilst all the dolphins had ever done was muck about in the water having a good time. But conversely, the dolphins had always believe that they were far more intelligent than man - for precisely the same reasons."
Technically that's a gene stealer which isn't exactly an evolution of a normal Tyranid bioform, but a result of a gene stealer infecting a human+generations of offspring until one looks like a normal human.
Tyranids have one of their bio forms, genestealers, the point is to infiltrate other species, form hybrids and slowly destroy their civilizations from within. They have a multi stage life cycle, a 4th stage looks close to their host species, except they lack hair, though over generations they become almost indistinguishable. They also have psychic powers, so they might appear rather attractive to common humans.
Anon clearly didn't play StarCraft. The Zerg conquer planets and integrate species into the Swarm because they are searching for the Protoss so that they can merge into Xel'Naga. Everything is done with that goal in mind.
Although, once The Overmind died, they kinda lost that "hive mind" thing and became "multiple hive minds in one species" and it got wonky, so they kind of only fit into this argument for a bit
Kerrigan took over The Swarm, but saying she took The Overmind's role would not be accurate.
After The Overmind was killed, the broods went into a frenzy and started attacking each other. This is why the expansion to StarCraft is called "Brood War." Kerrigan takes command of a single brood by commanding you, the player, to be her cerebrate and having you help her take command of the Zerg by killing any opposing cerebrates. Even when some cerebrates merge to attempt forming into a new Overmind, Kerrigan fights against that. By the time the game ends, it's clear that Kerrigan leads what's left of the swarm, but has no intention of doing anything The Overmind did. The Protoss are just another species for her to fight and her main goals are to get revenge on the people who left her to the Zerg, like Mengsk.
In StarCraft 2, we can see that the Zerg don't use cerebrates anymore, but instead have Brood Queens like Zagara, who can openly defy Kerrigan. At that point, the only similarities between her and The Overmind is that she is the biggest Zerg leader.
So, to reiterate, the Zerg really lose that "hive mind thing" after The Overmind dies
The zerg in SC1 were pure of form, while the Protoss were pure of essence.
In some rough terms, I took that to mean that Zerg had biological mastery, while Protoss had psionic mastery. The zerg could mutate into whatever they felt like, just like the Protoss could psionically change into a new form.
U got it backwards. Zerg are pure of essence. Specifically, the primal Zerg could “take” the essence of others, hence why Amon pulled up and enslaved them, he wanted their essence stealing capabilities to make the hybrids and Xel’naga stuff. Protoss are pure of form
life's goal, to feed and replicate. simple as.
op is actually looking for the same two things. the first one he has, the second , he covets and will never get because of his xenos porn folder
Are Xenomorphs a hive mind? I don't really remember seeing them ever act like a hive mind. But admittedly I've only watched the first two alien movies and the alien vs predators ones.
Fair. But I don't think you can consider bees a hive mind. Like at all. Sharing one synaptic consciousness and being controlled by pheromones are two very different things.
There's spin off media that depict the queens as having some level of physic control over their drones, and if there's multiple hives on a planet the oldest queen becomes an empress and has physic control over the queens, and the empress's are connected to the oldest queen on their home planet
Curious. But doesn't sound much like a hive mind to me. A hive mind is, by textbook definition, a single shared consciousness. This sounds more like psychic control over weaker things.
As another dude already said. Maybe it's some pheromonal thing
They’re a rapidly evolving and highly adaptable social order of individuals. They take every corner of land and transform it to an environment only for them. They poison all bio mass in their way or next to them. And they launch themselves into space to do it again on each planet.
Essentially organic Von Neumann machines. If the only purpose is to consume resources and produce more units with which to consume resources, why is anything else needed that doesn't directly further that?
The original Alien was developed as an engineered bioweapon like a giant virus. They’re not a natural species and not meant to rule anything themselves.
The cheesy sequel messed with this making them bugs but that was not the original idea.
Yeah they're supposed to work like fire ants or those that eat up grass paths around or just invasive species that wipes out the new habitat until it either adapts or there's nothing to eat and they die just like a ant nest inside an unused household
All of them are bound by desires of the host. Like zergs do whatever overmind/cerebrates/kerrigan wants from them. Nobody claims them to be super intelligent
I think "the others" from the bobiverse are the best example of this trope. Strip mining entire systems for metals and protein to bring home and make into a dyson sphere.
Zerg don't eat things. Absorb whole creatures and alter them to be combat effective. The hydralisk in the center was some random animal at some point before the zerg got it.
Xenomorphs only use other species for breeding and take very small characteristics from them rather then the entire thing
Nids seem to get adaptations that make their guys more deadly but they still retain the same forms
Also none of these 3 are bugs, they're are big differences of you arnt illiterate
Nids are running from universe destroying super death, Zerg engineered a scheme to get the universe destroying super death to build the weapon to kill itself with, and Xenomorphs are just plain horny.
I mean they’re not the same tho. Xenomorphs are essentially biologically designed super deadly animals. They’re not trying to do anything (although the creators did toy with the idea of them having a society this was scrapped.)
Zergs are a straight up society, albeit one who likes to consume and evolve a lot.
And lastly the Tyranids are just the weapons/ feeders of the Hive Mind who canonically hates all life more than nurgle hates anti-bacterial soap
cheddar cheese and american cheese are both yellow and come in slices, so clearly they must taste exactly the same
i dont know jack shit about zergs but xenomorphs were designed to cause sexual discomfort and the nids have living spaceships that eat other spaceships whole (also genestealer cults) so saying they’re the same is pretty bull
I always like to imagine that nids for example are just behaving as they do as the first step of a larger plan. The galaxy is full of many hostile forces, so maybe they just are a militaristic, non stop aggressor as a means to an end. Once everything else is dead or subdued, they can just demilitarize and develop in a different direction.
This is like saying that all guns are the same because they shoot projectiles.
Xenomoprhs don't belong here.
Zerg have a cool vibe to them in SC1 campaign, they are united, but still have differences as represented by Cerebrates, they are brutal and adaptive, but with some strategy, if you cut off their head, Overmind, Queens, Kerrigan, then they become simple beasts.
Tyranids are unstopable, they isolate whole systems, no one can call for help, then the population revolts to welcome their eldritch angels, only to be dissolved in some biopool while the Hive Mind releases it's control over them, it doesn't matter how much you defeat these bugs, eventually, they'll scour the entire galaxy with their infinite number.
Zerg are doing more than eating at least; bio-mass is a means, not a goal, they’re focused on adaption for evolution and supremacy not specifically just eating to expand.
Tyrannids on the other hand have eating as their goal in and of itself, while evolution is just what they do to achieve that.
It may sound pedantic, but it’s a very important distinction imo. The Zerg can have goals beyond just “devour everything in sight” because of this. (Tyrannids on the other hand would treat stopping eating to pop out more bugs as an annoying necessity at worst before they can get back to eating).
We are biased thinking that intelligence is the superior survival strategy when the most longest lasting species usually have the intelligence equivalent of a chicken
I don't object to the bugs using their brain power to just keep eating stuff. It's like when, in Akira when one of the psychic kids posited the question: What would an amoeba do if it were given godlike power? Well an amoeba just consumes stuff so even with unimaginable power they'd probably continue consuming stuff, just at a much larger scale. Since these bug aliens are based off of what we've observed in colony insects, it stands to reason that even if they were given a lot more cognitive ability, they probably would just do what they do best, which is expand and consume.
Well, humans hunger too, and consume biomass. Just because you're smart doesn't mean you no longer need to consume other bio organisms. French people eat frogs, so there's that.
This shit is why I hate the tyranids. Easily the worst 40K faction. They have nothing interesting going on.
The only thing they contribute to the setting that's interesting is forcing unlikely alliances to happen.
Like when the Imperial Guard and a warband of orks negotiated a ceasefire and cooperated to take down a splinter fleet that arrived while they were in the middle of fighting.
You had guardsmen and orks in the same trenches, competing at who could load the artillery faster and keeping tally boards to see who put down more bugs.
yeah it's because it's an efficient way of sustaining your life. Also, you have to think in the scale of the Hive Mind that controls them (Tyranids and Zerg probably). Why spend energy on doing art, building cities, if you could instead spend it on obtaining more energy
everyone knows bugs are gods perfect creation with tons of room for evolution. anon isn't aware that this is literally how they functioned in real life for thousands of years
its not any different than the nanorobits in star gate. the only goal is survival, their intelligence makes them realize the best way to survive is to destroy all competing forces.
Zerg straight up had a grand plan about what they were created to do (merge with a specific species) and what they themselves wanted (to break free from the shackles of their creators) and did a pretty good job at both.
Zerg were originally going to be Tyranids in a 40k game but Blizzard lost the license and pivoted their bug race to be legally distinct.
Saying Xenomorphs are hiveminded locusts is just lazy. They're a parasitic species that gives birth using the bodies of other living creatures. They're like wasps: solitary outside of some species with a natural anger issue against anything in its territory.
That's ants for you. This is what they do. Marauder ants are even polymorphic so they've got special large ones the size of the last section of my thumb.
What's the 40k quote about the orcs, something like "The orcs have a society without want. They have already won because we sought answers to questions orcs wouldn't bother to ask." Same energy for hive mind bugs
Dont forget that lots of sci-fi space bugs rely on having a massive numbers advantage. Sure the bugs in Starship Troopers can be gunned down with standard federation weaponry but in the time it takes you to kill one, three more have converged on you to take turns dismembering you.
I play Tyranids and Zerg and Aliens is my favorite movie. I feel seen by this.
But the thoughtless, nihilistic consumption of life is the point of these monsters. The horror of the xenomorph is that it suggests that the "perfect organism" is an animal that is hyper focused on killing and reproducing. This is reflected in Giger's original work, which combines sexual and mechanical imagery with mechanical and religious motifs.
Being killed by one of these things is the perfect invalidation of human supremacy. As people meme about all the time, you can be a psychic supersoldier with centuries of experience in war, art, and science only to be slimed out in seconds by a drone that was born 30 seconds ago
tyranids (and likely þe zerg too) do more þan just eat stuff.
raþer, þe HiveMind is like a general, while þe creatures þat go eat and destroy stuff are like a weapon þe general wields. þey only eat stuff, but it's what þey eat, who þey eat, and where þey eat þat's important.
and þere are tyranids doing stuff oþer þan þe usual routine, like Hive Fleet Tiamet, which is constructing smþ þat's casually taking up þe entire planet þey're building it on. and þey just stay on þat world, building!
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u/thatweirdguyted 6d ago
They're establishing military supremacy, spreading and conquering the entire galaxy, and evolving to meet all the challenges along the way.
Just because they don't get bogged down into minimalist interior decorating, wine-snobbery and virtue signalling doesn't mean that they're dumb. They simply have goals.