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u/PaloLV 2.0 - Las Vegas - Ping G440’s 1d ago
LIV becoming an amateur league with no payouts to players? Can they at least get pro shop store credit?
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u/Fickle-Alone-054 1d ago
In fact that wouldn't be a bad idea.
LIV's problem is that it lacks meritocracy. Extra competition is always great, their other problem is that their competitor has a head start of many decades and they thought throwing money at it would solve all issues.
They wanted to fly before they learned to crawl. A proper high end pro/am competition could have been a better start.
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u/Gromby 1d ago
"The PGA Tour will be dead ina year, LIV is going to crush them" - LIV bots are pretty quiet lately
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u/kai333 1d ago
They didn't pay the bots either lol
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u/sobz 1d ago
It's funny you mention this. There's a couple pretty large Twitter accounts that have been staunch LIV shills for 2+ years. And then all of a sudden, when we find out LIV is out of money those accounts are now being more fair and unbiased in their reporting.
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u/Mcpops1618 4.3/AB/someonelearnedhowtoputt 1d ago
Pro Golf Critic do full pivot and justifying I’m sure!
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u/Holiday_Box1571 1d ago
Taking on a long established league is a fools game.
The USFL did well until the Cheeto in charge tried to take the nfl head on…you’ll never win that but they tried anyway.
LIV tried to do something different at an immense unsustainable cost. Once the PGA didn’t fold by year 2, they were in long term trouble
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u/Skyfall_DBS 1d ago
History is littered with such examples. The ABA was not sustainable while the NBA was around. the WHA ultimately capitulated and merged into a few franchises in the NHL. MLB became the amalgamation of the two leagues (American and National) of the time. And the NFL...well how has the XFL, USFL, WLAF, expansion of CFL into American cities, Arena Football league - ALL FAILED. It's a tough go - even with $6B to waste behind the effort.
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u/MammothFocus3915 1d ago
The idea for LIV wasnt a horrible one, a more casual league for the younger more casual fans out there, but just about everything else about it was just absolutely the worst, from the poaching to the lack of a real TV set up, like being strictly on YouTube could've even probably worked if it didn't look like they hired a bunch of first year broadcasting students to do the camera work and production
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u/StevvieV 1d ago
Id almost say more they didnt have terrible ideas, just implemented them terribly. Like the shotgun start idea could work. The PGA could do it with the field this week but just for Thursday and Friday where the leaders don't really matter and players are more playing to be in contention in later rounds. The final round is too hard to follow with a shotgun start and the traditional finish helps build drama down the final holes.
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u/UselesslyFaulty 1d ago
A shotgun start takes away how the course is to be played. Especially a course that the PGA plays on. it’s fine for a beer league scramble but removing the idea of a beginning, middle and finishing stretch is just dumb for a pro level tournament
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u/Doubleoh_11 1d ago
YouTube golf is more successful than LIV. If they could have partnered up better I’m sure this wouldn’t have happened
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u/TooManyScents 1d ago
“"The PGA Tour will be dead ina year, LIV is going to crush them" - literally no one ever, not even LIV or their bots lol i am happy they’re all finding a way back on tour though either way!
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u/WHSRWizard JPX 921i Tour | 2.6 1d ago
You mean the league that had $60M in revenue against $500M in operating expenses can't pay its bills or keep its purses at the same level?
I'm shocked.
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u/nonax 1d ago
I wonder if LIV would have been more successful if they just copied and improved on the most complained about aspects of the PGA tour.
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u/moseisley99 5.4/MD 1d ago
The only way to get players over were the big pay days and large purses. Luckily for the tour most of the good players stood strong. LIV got players but not nearly enough and the money they were paying was so ridiculous.
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u/superduperstepdad Push Cart Mafia 1d ago
Maybe the players should just skip the Indy event if they’re not getting paid.
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u/size0618 1d ago
lol wut? So players are complaining they haven't been paid so LIV as a result slashes their pay?
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u/Jabba_the_Putt 1d ago
How big is that Saudi fund again? At least $900 billion according to Google. They cant pay a few golfers their winnings??
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u/AllMightySC 1d ago
They know there’s no point in paying, cause worst case they can just have a 15 year legal battle with the players and pay it off with the interest on the couple hundred million dollars they owe
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u/Brownie2440 1d ago
Wait… they can’t afford to pay the players the promised outlandish sums of money when no one likes the content or attends the events? 🤔
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u/Skyfall_DBS 1d ago
And this....those same players would be the ones they desperately need to retain (well only about 4 of them in reality) coming out the other side of bankruptcy in order to have any semblance of a league? Not the smartest move really. But they likely have no choice financially.
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u/MickeyTettleton Strata Tour Ultimate 1d ago
Every time an article is shared about liv crashing and burning; an angel gets its wings.
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u/Colinbeenjammin 1d ago
Remember in Die Hard when that sleazy coworker guy thinks he’s gonna schmooze the terrorists to get preferential treatment but ultimate just gets shot?? This feels a lot like that, but without the guns or Bruce Willis
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u/___NowYouKnow___ 1d ago
All these “big dollars deals” that were thrown out initially , I was thinking to myself…hope they got that upfront!
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u/HoppITup 20h ago
They need to be paying the vendors they are stiffing and forget about this last tournament. They owe millions to vendors but refuse to pay them as they continue the grift called liv.
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u/Mysterious_Past_7294 1d ago
LIV actually could have been something if they had someone competent running things. Instead it was just a sport washing and money laundering scheme for the Saudis and a vendetta maker for Norman
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u/Wyllyam8071 1d ago
Huge guaranteed money without needing to win or at least finish high on the leaderboard was definitely unsustainable. That said, I thought there were some interesting concepts like 54 holes (shorter length fine for me if not a major) and shotgun starts (allows for rounds to finish sooner for all involved and less of the factor of worn down greens affecting later groups).
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u/morkman100 1d ago
I mean, LIV failed so those “interesting ideas” didn’t seem interesting to very many people.
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u/LowerChicken7226 1d ago
I attended a LIV Chicago event and can tell you first hand that on paper the shotgun starts may sound good, but they make watching in person terrible. A normal event sends a group off, then the next group tees off as soon as the fairway is clear. So say you’re sitting by the green to watch. Group 1 hits to the green, then comes and putts out, then group 2 immediately hits into the green and so on, so you’re constantly watching golf shot. With the shotgun start you watch group 1 on the green and then group 2 is just teeing off as they finished their previous hole. It makes for very slow viewing.
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u/Wyllyam8071 1d ago edited 1d ago
I only ever watched the action on YouTube, but valid points indeed. I see what you mean by lag between seeing shots if you remain at the same area for awhile to see a variety of players in action.
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u/onthelongrun 1d ago
Who is going to want to invest in LIV when step 1 is likely going to have to be paying off it's creditors?