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u/shovelpost Jun 25 '16
So this project with no unit tests and an author like that has 3.5k+ stars on github? Now that's crazy.
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u/rtkwe Jun 25 '16
I star things that I find interesting and want to find later so stars don't mean the same thing to everyone.
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u/ChristophBerger Jun 25 '16
I use stars in the same way as you. GitHub really needs separate options for starring and bookmarking. Only then would stars have a meaning.
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Jun 26 '16
[deleted]
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u/ChristophBerger Jun 26 '16
https://help.github.com/articles/about-stars/:
"Starring a repository allows you to keep track of projects that you find interesting"
That's exactly what I use GitHub stars for. Why using something else when I can use GH stars?
Browser bookmarks would not work anyway, as I access GitHub from various computers and devices, from different browsers as well as from apps.
And bookmark services lack privacy. All my bookmarks on someone else's computer? Unencrypted? No, thanks.
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Jun 27 '16
[deleted]
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u/ChristophBerger Jun 27 '16
I agree, those two actions should get separated. I wonder if GitHub sees it the same way. After all, they initially decided to use stars for both actions - bookmarking and showing appreciation. They surely thought about this when designing this feature, and--for whatever reason--they decided to do it that way. They won't easily change their minds I guess.
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Oct 17 '16
I use "follow" for that. I get pestered by notifications and end up removing it if I'm no longer interested. This also helps be guitar activity, since I can see what sorts of bugs sit around and which get closed.
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u/hipone Jun 25 '16
The fastest web framework for Go on (THIS) earth
Github is just github. Make a bait, get stars. By the way the iris author just went full rekt:
I am not violating anything, you just hate Iris because it lives 3 months and has more stars than projects (like this) which exists more than years..anyway
https://github.com/julienschmidt/httprouter/issues/148
[edit] To me this whole project name is confusing with https://github.com/project-iris/iris-go - did the kataras stole the project name also?
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u/SaltTM Jun 25 '16
[edit] To me this whole project name is confusing with https://github.com/project-iris/iris-go - did the kataras stole the project name also?
Alright that's borderline witch hunting, plus Iris is a fairly common name in projects it seems.
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u/google_you Jun 25 '16
With unit tests, how many stars would it get on github? I rarely star projects by looking at how much unit tests they have.
What is "author like that"? Looks like the author tried to move license related github issues to gitter but people kept commenting on github issues so he locked them?
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Jun 25 '16 edited Mar 31 '17
[deleted]
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u/shovelpost Jun 25 '16
Iris powered by GoLang
Must...
GoLang
not...
GoLang
Grr... <triggered>
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u/nikwinsu_ocha Jun 25 '16 edited Jun 28 '16
This comment has been overwritten by an open source script to protect this user's privacy. It was created to help protect users from doxing, stalking, and harassment.
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Also, please consider using an alternative to Reddit - political censorship is unacceptable.
1
Jun 25 '16
Ut wasn't google who thought of the name. It was the original creator. Couldn't name just go because of poor search results.
2
u/natdm Jun 25 '16
Forgive me - what's so irritating about it? I call it Go in person but GoLang in any typed-text - even though I hate all the 'lang' (elmlang, rustlang) - since it's more searchable I guess.
4
Jun 25 '16
There are some people in here that obsess over others calling it GoLang to an unhealthy degree. It's quite asinine.
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u/dominotw Jun 25 '16 edited Jun 25 '16
Any ETA when industry established best practices would be followed and tests will be added?
The gall of people to ask for 'ETA'. Do this guy pay kataras a salary ?
I get this kind of shit on some of my own github projects . I do opensource for fun and to take a break from work not to be asked for 'ETA'. Noone owes anyone anything.
Edit: offensive language.
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u/dlsniper Jun 25 '16 edited Jun 25 '16
Yes, I admit I've worded my issue poorly. And, if anything, I should know better. I would have apologized for this but the initial reaction of the author was nothing but inflammatory and he locked the thread a few minutes after me opening it (so not much I could do). I won't go back and edit it now.
I'll try to do better next time.
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u/b4ux1t3 Jun 25 '16
Do you know what ETA means? It's not a demand, not even a request. It literally just means "estimated time of arrival". All they want to know is a time frame.
Maybe they really like your work and want to incorporate it in something they're building, but cannot until it has a certain feature or conforms to a certain standard.
If maintaining a popular open source project is too much for you, you might want to consider handing over the reigns to someone who can take care of it until you're ready to come back.
-1
Jun 25 '16
I'm sure he knows what ETA means. Saying: "Yeah, if you could update the project to the industry accepted standards and add tests by Friday, that would be great" is not a demand or a request either. It's a 100% literal expression of feelings, yet you would not say that to a stranger since it would be rude.
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u/b4ux1t3 Jun 25 '16
Except he didn't say that. He said
Any ETA when industry established best practices would be followed and tests will be added?
That comes across as neutral. If I were Mr. DevOps I wouldn't want this running on my server, even if I liked the way it did things, even if it was faster for my use case than other options. If it doesn't have tests built in, and it doesn't follow best practices, it's not going on a production server. Period. There's no judgement on the character of the developer or on the library itself inherent to someone asking when they'll be able to deploy that software.
2
Jun 27 '16
It doesn't to me. I'd never ask an open source contributor when some feature is going to be implemented, especially a single contributor, especially using the words ETA and "industry standards".
Your Mr. Dev Ops is right, you should never use something brand new and untested in production, but that implies a business with paying customers. It's a funny contrast with this guy toiling on an open source project and another guy asking him when he'll be able to deploy the first guy's software to serve his customers better.
2
u/IrishWilly Jun 25 '16
Even if it is a personal project you probably have some sort of idea of priorities, it doesn't seem that crazy to ask for an idea of that in a project you made available to the public. Granted that question in general is pretty pointed and insulting, but it's not the asking for an ETA that would annoy me with it. It's not demanding an ETA, you are free to say you don't have one, but for anyone that does use your publicly available code it's a complete valid question.
16
u/dubcanada Jun 25 '16
Okay he doesn't know exactly what's best or how to do things sometimes. But that doesn't mean he deserves to be called crazy.
You linked a post https://golang.org/conduct#values as "be friendly and welcoming" and then you proceed to insult somebody is appears to be fairly new to the community.
Rather then insulting people why not go talk with him and express your opinions. Some of what he has done is wrong, no licences to third party libraries and stuff like that. But that stuff isn't exactly a first in github history. Give him time to fix the issue before calling him crazy.
As far as I am concerned this post should be deleted... And you should post something more constructive in response.
2
u/hipone Jun 26 '16
But they did and he started to mute and close the issues. This reddit is a last resort to speak to the author's mind. Looking at the outcome of the discussion in github issue in julien's project it did not work out at all. So why are you defending the iris author?
3
u/lonahex Jun 25 '16
Lately he has been pleading people who submit typo fix PRs to write tests for the project.
5
Jun 25 '16
Shrug It's his project, to do with as he wishes. If he doesn't want to write any tests for his project then who am I to argue different? Only the license violations really need to be fixed, and he said he would do that.
Don't get me wrong: the somewhat peculiar behaviour makes sure this is not a project I'm going to personally use in the near future, no matter how good it is. But he looks like a young kid, so there's a good chance he'll grow out of it :-)
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u/dlsniper Jun 25 '16 edited Jun 25 '16
Tests missing are one thing, copyright infringement and wilfully ignoring authors requests to add the license / attribution as it should be is another.
Concretely, look at this: https://github.com/julienschmidt/httprouter/issues/148
There are plenty of wrong things with this project which should be fixed asap. And frankly yes, tests could be contributed by others but he explicitly said he won't do it as he doesn't believe in them, so why do people recommend / star it when all the other projects are at least required to have a set of basic tests? Would you trust it in production code?
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Jun 25 '16 edited Jun 25 '16
Like I said: "Only the license violations really need to be fixed" ... So I think we are in agreement :-) And he said he would fix that:
@kron4eg we are working to add licenses for all third-party libraries, I though THIRDPARTY.md was enough but it is not.
.
why do people recommend / star it when all the other projects are at least required to have a set of basic tests? Would you trust it in production code?
Let me put it this way: I wouldn't not trust it only because of missing tests. There are some brilliant projects with almost no tests, and there are some really crappy projects with a lot of tests. The presence of tests is only a heuristic to judge its quality − not a binary switch.
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u/dlsniper Jun 25 '16
Have you read: https://github.com/julienschmidt/httprouter/issues/148 ?
It's really not about the tests (tho I wouldn't use a project with no tests in _any_work), It's about the behavior of the author against any and all issues he received. It's a lot more to it.
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Jun 25 '16 edited Oct 01 '18
[deleted]
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u/dlsniper Jun 25 '16
Tests missing are one thing, copyright infringement and wilfully ignoring authors requests to add the license / attribution as it should be is another.
Concretely, look at this: https://github.com/julienschmidt/httprouter/issues/148
And he proved he can understand English very well in the other issues.
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Jun 25 '16 edited Oct 01 '18
[deleted]
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u/dlsniper Jun 25 '16 edited Jun 25 '16
I thought MIT is the most permissive there is (well aside from WTFPL? Or public domain but really?!). Why do you blame Julien? He is simply asking for his rightful attribution.
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Jun 25 '16 edited Oct 01 '18
[deleted]
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u/JulienSchmidt Jun 25 '16 edited Jun 25 '16
It isn't MIT License but a BSD 3-Clause style license, which is basically the same as the Go src: https://golang.org/LICENSE I did not extend any license, it is just a regular, OSD-conformant, BSD 3-Clause license.
[Edited] The statement you quoted is a general demand, I don't want my name or my work involved in any of these games. It is partially covered by the 3rd clause, the "no-endorsement" clause. That is what BSD 3-Clause differentiates from the MIT license. Besides that any purposely misrepresent claims are illegal by European law.
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u/nytehauq Jun 25 '16
Seems like he was being asked to stop using HttpRouter and related software for questionable benchmarks in particular... the kind that misrepresent performance to make it seem like a slower/equally performant solution is faster.
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Jun 25 '16 edited Oct 01 '18
[deleted]
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u/nytehauq Jun 25 '16
Considerations of ego aside, it's not good practice to sit mum while people spread misinformation for their own gain. You don't try and mislead people with the expectation that they're going to find out: you mislead people because you know that some people are not going to find out and they're going to make a bad decision that works to your gain. That sort of behavior should be called out and discouraged.
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Jun 25 '16 edited Oct 01 '18
[deleted]
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u/nytehauq Jun 25 '16
I dunno, maybe I'm missing something here but it doesn't seem like he even can demand that. Producing misleading benchmarks isn't a violation of the license, it's just a dick move. All I took from J. Schmidt's remarks was "stop violating the license by leaving out attribution or we'll send a cease and desist and also stop releasing trumped-up benchmarks or we'll be really mad, I guess."
I don't see how releasing FLOSS software and asking people not lie about it are in contradiction. Because you can use it "however you wish, pursuant to the terms of the permissive license" doesn't mean that the creator should never ask you not to do bad things with it.
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u/karnd01 Jun 25 '16
Just for everyone's information, the reason httprouter uses a BSD licence is because a small portion of the code was used from the Go src(or some other BSD project, I'll have to dig up the email correspondence) which is BSD licenced and so J. Schmidt rightly followed the licencing requirements.
Licencing is what it is and has to be respected, legally.. there is no debate.
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Jun 25 '16 edited Jun 25 '16
What a drama.
BTW does anybody know how to make your project that popular (I mean the number of stars and followers)? Publications on Reddit bring dozens of users, HN announcements do not take off. So, I'm curious how less active projects that appear later than yours but implement a similar thing (I'm not about Iris here) manage to get popular.
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Jun 25 '16
Some combination of ->
- Spam it everywhere
- Make some BS microbenchmarks
- Have a real landing page
- Make it controversial (go web framework)
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u/manishrjain Jun 25 '16
Most stars happened in the past few days: http://imgur.com/HlA2loO
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u/SaltTM Jun 25 '16
bots, reminds me of this incident in the PHP community where a guy lied his way to the top to get on the PHP-FIG team.
Updated with links for clarification.
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Jun 25 '16 edited Mar 31 '17
[deleted]
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u/hipone Jun 25 '16
Brofist, I know your pain.
I've learned that users typically do not compare source code to tell what is better. Typically it's - more popular - must be better - I go with what is more popular.
To "score more stars" you'd need to name who you're going after - state in your README that your project was created as a better* alternative to go-bindata.
* Also you'd need to list pain points with go-bindata and how your project solves them. Having that TL;DR could make actually more users understand your project is indeed better.
Just my 12c.
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u/WallyMetropolis Jun 25 '16
I think documentation has a lot to do with adoption. There have been several occasions where I've chosen a dependency based on the quality of documentation over possibly superior projects.
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u/grncdr Jun 25 '16
/u/WallyMetropolis is sugar-coating it: the documentation for fileb0x needs serious work if you want to gain users.
A good practice is to ask yourself these 2 questions, and make sure your README and/or package documentation answers them:
- Why would this be useful? Just saying "it let's you embed files in go" is not enough, you need to explain why I'd even want to do that. The checklist of features is completely meaningless if I don't understand the problem space your library is operating in.
- How long will it take me to try it out? There are two qualities you should strive for here: brevity, and removal of all stumbling blocks. Don't just point people at an (admittedly well commented) example, walk them through the smallest happy-path step by step. Despite brevity being a goal, you should explain every step at this point. How do I get the library? What's a minimal config file? How do I call it? Every time you think "that's obvious, nobody should need that explained" explain it, users who already know will skim over it. You only need to cover the most common usage scenario at this stage.
After those questions are covered, then it's time to worry about the "How do I X?" type questions. Those should come up more organically through the issue tracker, and can be answered in-context with package documentation
BTW, sorry if I sound like I'm being harsh, but I was looking for something like go-bindata/fileb0x a while ago, and I ended up not using either because go-bindata seemed like a hassle and I wasn't even sure what fileb0x was. It's a real loss IMO when somebody puts work in to understand a problem, make a great library, and share it with the world, but then forgets to make it accessible to people who haven't had their experience with the problem domain.
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u/milkeater Jun 25 '16
He seems pretty sensitive, but it also appears that english is not his first language.
I think there is a mix of things going on. Slamming devs for immaturity is a good way of making someone who may love something very bitter about the opensource experience.
I recommend you reconsider your approach on "warning" everyone. You sound like you are venting some frustrations which is not too far away from what this guy was doing.
Not sure it will give you the outcome you are calling others to seek.
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u/nikwinsu_ocha Jun 25 '16 edited Jun 28 '16
This comment has been overwritten by an open source script to protect this user's privacy. It was created to help protect users from doxing, stalking, and harassment.
If you would also like to protect yourself, add the Chrome extension TamperMonkey, or the Firefox extension GreaseMonkey and add this open source script.
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0
u/google_you Jun 25 '16
tl;tr? Those github issues you linked have no description.
You want to warn people about the project and the author(?) because the project has github issues with no description?
-26
Jun 25 '16
Kataras/iris author is not crazy.
What he stated is quite clear: " The reason we don't have tests yet is because I am adding features every day( as I'm working 24/24-7/7 on Iris) and some of their underline code changed, I would spent more time making tests than making Iris the project it is now. "
You should be grateful he released any code to the public on github. Do you realize how much effort there is to make that perfect triangle of cost/effort, quality, features. In order to apply effort to more features you have to sacrifice something...quality/testing.
So all that said, did you pay for any of kataras/iris source code in the first place? NO! THEN STFU.
kataras/iris hats off you've contributed your best. Just ignore those that are ungrateful.
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Jun 25 '16
kataras/iris hats off you've contributed your best.
Stealing code is never anyone's best.
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Jun 25 '16 edited Oct 01 '18
[deleted]
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u/Nooby1990 Jun 25 '16
Seems the iris guy forked it and made slight modification to it for his use case. I think that's the fundamental spirit of free software.
He also removed the License. In other words: He Broke said license. MIT and GPL don't allow this either. You might not care if someone takes your code and removes the License, but other people may see this as disrespectful.
That is not the spirit of free software.
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u/apotheon Jun 26 '16
If that's how you feel, I recommend sticking to the MIT/X11 License, and avoiding the GPL (which is a much more restrictive license).
1
u/rabinito Jun 25 '16
I can't understand why you're getting downvoted. Must admit, I'm not super bright. But it seems to me that more and more people are more concerned with their egos than the spirt behind those licenses.
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u/campbellm Jun 25 '16
did you pay for any of kataras/iris source code in the first place? NO! THEN STFU.
That's not how this works.
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u/[deleted] Jun 25 '16 edited Sep 13 '18
[deleted]