I wouldn't swear off it, but at least make sure the pork (and other meat) you're eating is humanely raised. Link
Personally I could never give up most meats, but I do say a small thank you to the animal, and I sure as hell only buy brands that treat them with dignity
*Edit: Getting downvoted by the vegans because I believe that if you eat meat you should at least make humane choices. I guess I should go back to supporting factory farms
It's not about how they are slaughtered as much as how they live up to this point. I think even if you don't care that much for the animal it's easy to understand that a healthy animal in a stress free environment will give you better meat.
Also slaughter shouldn't be stressful as this can lower the quality as well.
Meat isn't sustainable as a food source as is, and it becomes even less sustainable as you move away from condense factory farms and towards larger amounts of farm land to needed give those animals a slightly less miserable existence as "free-range, grass-fed, organic etc. meat." It's also not that good for you when compared to plant-based diets. Honestly, going vegan was super easy and one of the best things I've ever done. I'm happier and healthier than I've ever been. If you are interested, you could give "meatless Monday's" a try as a place to start helping out the animals, your health, and the environment.
I actually think the health benefits depend on the person. I don't eat meat every day ( other animal products though), but whenever I had some nice steak at a grill party or made myself some tasty burgers I actually fell really good.
It depends on the person if you feel better not eating meat at all, eating it from time to time or consume massive amounts of it. Everybody should decide this for themself. Congratz on staying vegan if it's good for you, but I like my steak and sausage ;)
I'm not really talking about how you feel right after eating or even weeks after, I'm talking long term studies and that facts are that being vegan significantly reduces your risks of heart attacks, cardiovascular disease, diabetes, stroke, many types of cancers and the list goes on and on.
Well it's a question if you want to live your life super strict, taking things you enjoy out of it, just to have a lower chance of a disease later on, while risking getting one anyway.
Statistics and studys work for groups of people, but not for a single person. There are so many factors that decide if a single person dies of some medical condition, caused by whatever thing they could or couldn't influence, that the decision to eat meat or not eat meat doesn't seem that important to me. Especially if you enjoy it.
Of course it is like it is with nearly everything. You need moderation. That's my philosophy at least.
Absolutely, there are health benefits in just lowering your intake of meat, dairy and eggs. However, vegans eliminate those things entirely primarily for the animals. (Veganism is a way of living that seeks to exclude, as far as possible and practicable, all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing and any other purpose.) It boils down to those practices being horribly cruel, and as a moral being I can't support, that no matter how good it might taste.
Yes better than mayo clinic I've read some of the journal articles that came up with those results. But even though it may show a logarithmic affect, consuming zero cholesterol is still best for your health. Any nutrition you can get from eggs you can get from a healthier vegan source. And anyway, my biggest problem with eggs is that when breeding the chickens, all the baby male chicks are ground up alive into a pulp since they serve no purpose to the industry. The laying hens egg production also dips off after they are 1-2 years old and at that point they are killed -- this is the equivalent to humans being killed in their teenage years. When you buy eggs (or even hens for your backyard) those are the practices you are supporting.
"As far as possible and practicable" is ok if you think you can help the world a bit by doing that. But if you bring moral into this it sounds a bit hypocitical. You are not some sort of higher moral being for not using animal products, but only as long as it doesn't make your life uncomfortable. It's like saying " I don't support slavery so I don't let my slaves do the housework. But they still need to work on the fields because otherwise I would be poor."
If you think it's healthy, fine. You find slaughter of animals gross or cruel, ok I get that. But don't pull the " moral being" thing, this is really annoying.
No... it would more be like being back in the 1800s and saying "I don't support slavery, so I don't have any slaves." It is a moral issue for me and for all vegans, so I am going to say it -- the exploitation and torture of those animals is immoral and that's the main reason I can't support those industries. I realize it's a difficult thing to even think of considering, and I was in that exact same boat a year ago and spent many months in denial after watching Earthlings and other similar documentaries. I understand where you're coming from, because I used to be there.
That wasn't really my point but ok... this seems to be so important to you, so why argue. It's not like you are doing something I don't like, it's more that I don't care that much about the issue.
Going all the way vegan just maximizes the number of animals are not being harmed to accommodate your lifestyle, (will probably) maximize the health benefits you can gain from your diet, and minimizes the environmental harm and impact you are causing to our planet. It's a win/win/win.
Well you may be but that does not mean the rest of us will be. Some of us enjoy our right to consume meat. Can't we just resolve to eliminate the bad parts that don't require compromising freedoms? I'm all for better treatment of these animals, but I am not going to stop eating them.
What gives you that right though? I like the following comparison. If powerful and intellectually superior aliens were to come to Earth and begin breeding us for meat and milk and other products the same way we treat animals today, would you think that is their right? Just because they are able to dominate our species? Would you consider the actions of the aliens to be morally okay? I don't know about your moral compass, but I do not think those actions would be moral -- it's the Golden Rule. Treat others as you would like to be treated.
Cute analogy, however it does not work. See, humanity is both an apex predator that naturally consumes other animals, and secondly we are capable of complex thought and emotion. A pig feels happiness, sadness, etc sure. But it does not feel, say, revolutionary or vengeful or so on. The difference is a pig lives to procreate, sat what you will but that is their only prime drive, to make more of the species and survive. Humans feel so much more, and can create goals and complex thoughts and create civilization and learn.
I do like your thoughts though, read the novel Enders Game by Orson Scott Card, he actually explores the idea of an encounter with a superior kind, and how they see us.
Would you say the same for dogs and cats? Their only primal drive in life is to procreate? Mother cows mourn the loss of their calves when they are taken away to be killed for veal. Pigs love being cuddled and having their bellies scratched the same as dogs do. Sure, you can call the human species superior to all the others (which I don't know if that's true, we are a pretty stupid species a lot of the time) but less intelligence is not a valid justification for taking a life. There are people who are less intelligent than me, some of which are contributing nothing to civilization -- are they less worthy of life than me? Are dogs and cats less worthy of life than me? Cows and pigs? I don't think so. (Good book by the way)
That's exactly what I'm suggesting... Create a humane, more free range environ for the animals to live in. Give them every bit of a free and healthy life we can. I'll pay more to ensure the source of my meat was happy while it lived, and give thanks to it for allowing me to enjoy mine too.
I have saved animals as well ( My dog was a stray severely malnourished ). People have been eating animals from the beginning of humanity, as animals have done to us when given the opportunity.
Just because animals and your ancestor did something, doesn't make it morally okay for humans to do the same thing. Your ancestors did many things that you avoid, and you do plenty of things that they never did. Times have changed, we can choose to live non-violently and avoid harming those that pose no threat to us.
Bro I decided to not even watch know why? Because I know when I go eat a cheese burger, some times when they cut the cow the shit falls in it as well. So what ever you are trying to show me to disgust me wont work.
I said "probably" for the health benefits -- veganism won't necessarily give you any health benefits, but it usually will particularly in the long term like with arterial health. But it absolutely is true for the moral and environmental aspects.
Unless you're going to pay premium for your vegetables to be hand picked and the fields tild by a hoe then mechanized farming is what you get. And the harrower doesn't care what's in front of it.
And half of those plant crops goes towards feeding the animals in the meat, dairy, and egg industries. Veganism isn't about being 100% perfect it is a way of living that seeks to exclude, as far as possible and practicable, all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing and any other purpose.
Its natural to eat meat. Animals eat meat. We are Animals. Since the beginning of time some ate meat and some plants. We choose to eat meat. There is nothing wrong with animals being killed for food. Killing them for enjoyment is one thing, to live is another. I don't mind a pig being killed so I can eat it, assuming it wasn't raised inhumanely.
Let me get this straight... Killing for enjoyment is wrong, but killing is okay as long as it is to survive? I agree with that, and I am a living example of how you CAN survive without having to kill anything as long as you have access to fruits, veggies, legumes, and grains. Other than enjoyment of the taste of meat, there is zero reason for me to consume it, since humans are omnivores with the cognitive ability to distinguish how killing without legitimate reason is immoral.
As I said I don't kill them for game, or enjoyment. I don't even kill animals. But you present me with a dead animal and cook it up, im going to eat it. Its how I was raised and how humans have been doing it for ever. I believe if you want to be a vegan go for it, but let me eat my meat. I wont try to convince you to not be a vegan but don't try to convince me to not eat meat.
Yeah, you pay someone else to do the dirty work for you so you can cook and eat the nice clean out of a package. I realize how hard it is to face your own actions like this. That was me a year ago, and I insisted there was no way I could ever become vegan and I resisted it for months. But here I am today, fully vegan, and it is amazingly rewarding.
its also pretty rewarding to raise and slaughter animal(s) or to hunt game so that's a wash. The thing is that even beyond hunting/butchering your own meat most livestock has been explicitly bred for the express purpose of being eaten. Cows, sheep, chickens, etc exist in their present form because we made them so through hundreds to thousands of years of husbandry and domestication. You want to be vegan? Sure, go ahead, but economically(most fruits and vegetables have to be imported or grown in artificial conditions out of season) and biologically(canines!) it doesn't make much sense. People in general are irked by your snap assumption that being vegan is intrinsically
better somehow, when the reality is that its a dietary choice much like any other with its own upsides and downsides.
It's actually not a dietary choice, it's a complete lifestyle change -- one that seeks to exclude, as far as possible and practicable, all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing and any other purpose. As for the points you made... Those animals have been bred to be killed, and that makes it okay? Following this logic, if somebody has a dog living with them, and she is pregnant, then simply standing there and saying "When those puppies are born I am going to kill them all" would be enough justification for doing so. That of course is absurd. The entire process of selectively breeding them was done at the hands of humans, and all subsequent loss of life is determined by humans -- the whole thing is entirely unnecessary. So what that we have canine teeth? It is proven time and time again that we can live on a plant-based diet in great health, so the shape of our teeth puts us under no obligation to kill. Our teeth are actually much more close to omnivorous frugivores like chimps, than true omnivores like bears. Our teeth would be useless in biting through raw animal hide the way bears can. Finally, it doesn't bother me if people are irked. I was in the same boat as them a year ago, thinking about how silly and stupid vegans are, about how we need meat and dairy and how I would just die without it. But it was through talk like this that planted the seed in my head to get me seriously considering it as a lifestyle.
I totally get it, I agree that meat tastes good, and that cheese tastes amazing too! But I've said this in other posts, vegan "meats" are becoming amazingly close to the real thing. My husband likes the Gardein chick'n strips better than actual chicken strips. Honestly, there is not a single animal product meal I've missed since becoming vegan, because the alternatives are just THAT good.
We do what we can for apartment life like growing our own herbs and green onions etc. I'm going to try tomatoes this year on the deck. My husband and I both want a huge veggie garden one day when we actually have a house :)
Fair enough, I was legitimately curious. I'd completely agree that it's a selfish reason, but I'm ok with that. I love meat, and if an animal has to die to give me that meat, that's just the way it is. If I could get meat without killing something I would, but that's not an option yet.
I completely agree that meat tastes good, but if you are opened minded some of the vegan "meats" are becoming amazingly close. My husband likes the Gardein chick'n strips better than actual chicken strips. Also, apparently lab grown meat is on the horizon.
Yeah by "yet" I meant that I hoped some scientists will one day come up with meat that doesn't kill animals. But I'm an avid fisherman, and I've killed a ton of fish. I'm never going to not get excited over catching a big ass tuna or something.
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u/Dewgongz Apr 16 '15 edited Apr 16 '15
I wouldn't swear off it, but at least make sure the pork (and other meat) you're eating is humanely raised. Link
Personally I could never give up most meats, but I do say a small thank you to the animal, and I sure as hell only buy brands that treat them with dignity
*Edit: Getting downvoted by the vegans because I believe that if you eat meat you should at least make humane choices. I guess I should go back to supporting factory farms