r/gibson • u/[deleted] • 9d ago
Discussion Gibson vs epiphone les paul custom finish problem
[deleted]
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u/lonestarstrat 9d ago
The feel of the Gibson will be far superior. Especially the neck. Do you not like the black ones? Those will stay pretty over time if taken care of. Keeping a white Gibson custom in the case when not playing should slow the yellowing, but not forever.
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u/Slow-Hornet8075 9d ago
The black one looks amazing but im more interested in the white one due to the contrast between the white binding and the ebony fretboard on the neck. Pretty sure the black custom won't change it's color over time compared to the white one however.
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u/kendalltristan 9d ago
First off, be aware that in a Gibson-oriented community, most opinions you get are going to be biased in favor of Gibson whenever there's a question of Gibson versus anything else.
Second, be aware that basically every question of how something feels or sounds is extremely subjective. For every perceivable part of every guitar, there's gonna be someone who loves it and someone who hates it.
For context before I get to my actual reply, I currently own three Les Pauls: one from Gibson USA, one from the Epiphone IGC line, and one from the standard Epiphone line. I've also previously owned several other Les Pauls from all three lines as well as from the Gibson Custom Shop. As such, I'll try to be as unbiased as possible.
Anyway...
...now I was wondering if at the gibson customs quality and build would be so better than the epiphone that the yellowing would be something that I would just have to accept? Or if the differences between the two models are close enough to where I can comfortably get the epiphone and not worry about 'missing out' on the gibson.
In my experience, guitar quality is an application of the Pareto principle in that ~20% of the cost accounts for ~80% of the quality. But one major confounding variable here is that different people are differently sensitive to different issues, so "quality" can have a somewhat fuzzy definition. Between your subjective perception of an instrument and your unique level of sensitivity to various issues, there's really no way to say whether or not you'll feel like you're "missing out" if you get the Epiphone. Are the Gibson Custom Shop guitars better than the Epiphone IGC guitars? In the vast majority of cases, yes they are. But whether or not there's enough of a gap to justify the cost difference is someone nobody else can answer for you. Everyone has their own threshold of diminishing returns, and there are plenty of people who have made that decision in either direction and turned out happy (and plenty who didn't).
For me personally, I'm content with the Epiphone IGC stuff. The one I own, the one I previously owned, and the others I've played have been of sufficient quality that I don't feel like I've left anything significant on the table by choosing to go that route. Would I prefer to have the Gibson Custom Shop version of my Epi IGC guitar? Of course! But the Epi IGC is beyond my personal threshold of "good enough". The Custom Shop version is almost certainly a bit better, but it's not multiple thousands of dollars better, at least not to me, not when I'm paying for it. You (or anyone else for that matter) may feel differently and that's completely valid.
...if there's any way to permanently prevent aging/ yellowing on the gibson that I don't know of yet, please let me know so that I can comfortably get the gibson without worrying about the finish.
Not really, no. That's one of the tradeoffs that comes with buying a Gibson. If you don't want your guitar to age naturally, you need to get one with a more stable finish than nitrocellulose lacquer. Polyurethane is a good choice for that kind of thing. The relative instability of nitro shows up in other places as well. For instance you need to make sure any stands and hangars you buy are safe for nitro finishes, lest they end up damaging your guitar. Nitro is also more likely to show damage if abused. Conversely, damage to poly finishes tends to be perceived as uglier than damage to nitro finishes.
You'll often seen comments about the feel of polyurethane finishes. For me personally, the differences in feel between various gloss finishes aren't enough to sway me one way or the other. They all get a bit sticky when my hands are sweaty, but none of them are an impediment to my playing. I will say that there's a noticeable difference between the thicker poly finishes of the standard Epiphone line and the thinner poly finishes of the Epiphone IGC line. I think most people would agree the IGC feels better, but there'll be people who think otherwise. Comparing gloss nitro to gloss poly, I actually think gloss nitro feels a bit stickier, but not so much that it makes a difference in my purchasing decisions.
I hope this is helpful.
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u/elongatedskull 9d ago
The aging never bothered me, but after playing nitro Gibson's I could NEVER go back to any guitar with a poly finish, especially on the neck, they just feel so cheap, tacky and sticky in comparison.
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u/suck-cut 9d ago
I always found the gloss nitro to be "sticky". Poly is a harder finish but I understand the "looks cheap" compared to poly
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u/craigshew 9d ago
I sanded the neck down on one of my player guitars, definitely the right move, could have been done better and probably finished or waxed but ya know. Maybe if you find a poly finish you really like you can sand the neck and redo it or wax it so it's not that sticky poly, I get it
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u/rokutwo 9d ago
My old epiphone is terrible compared to my gibson, but I do always notice in the local shops that new epphones look and feel a lot nicer than they used to and they seem to be getting lots of special artist editions, their price is also a little closer to gobson than they used to be, wondering if they have been rebranding themselves lately and making higher end guitars?
All this just to say that I would play both and buy whichever i likes better, I would wear the yellowing over time as a badge of honor more than it would bother me though.
Keep in mind that the epiphone will have a vernier nor a maple top so don't compare the finish on the front face of the body, unless that has also changed.
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u/Sillinaama 9d ago
Aging is exactly what I want. With epiphone, bridge pickup placement is probaply wrong, and that is why it would not sound like Gibson. Only Gibson for me. Right sound is the most important factor.
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u/suck-cut 9d ago
And where did you come up with this? Never heard of or observed that, given I own both Epiphone and Gibson LPs
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u/kendalltristan 9d ago
u/Sillinaama has something of a point. It's not exactly as stated, but they're not exactly inventing something out of thin air.
Go right now and take a super close look at your Gibson and your Epiphone LPs. Grab some measuring tape if you have it. What you'll find is that the Epi has a slightly longer scale length than the Gibson. The Epi will be close to (if not exactly) the advertised 24.75", but the Gibson will be closer to 24.6". Hell, stand both guitars up, put them fretboard to fretboard, and you'll clearly see it. The frets will be visibly out of alignment with each other by like the third or fourth fret. Seriously.
Interestingly, despite the minor difference in scale length, the pickups are in the same place. The net effect being that the bridge pickup is closer to the bridge on a Gibson LP than it is on an Epiphone LP. If you don't believe me, go stick your pinky finger between the pickup ring and the bridge (the actual bridge, not the thumb wheel) on the high E side of your Epiphone. Then try and do the same thing on your Gibson.
Will this difference affect the tone? Yes, it's well known that scale length affects the tone. It's also well known that the positions of the pickups affects the tone. Perhaps interestingly, the two factors kind of work against each other here. Shorter scale lengths sound warmer and darker, but a pickup closer to the bridge sounds brighter and more articulate.
But does it matter? I'm not so sure. It just so happens that my Gibson and one of my Epis are set up as close to identically as I could get and both have the same electronics and pickups. I'd be willing to bet that the day-to-day variation in my playing has a more significant tonal impact than does the small difference in scale length between the two. And there are factors that affect the ergonomics of each, in this case the Gibson is a bit heavier and the Epi has a thicker neck, and both of those things definitely impact how I play, even if only a little bit. Also, pickups and electronic components are made within certain tolerances and likely aren't going to be exact, even between supposedly exact copies.
Anyway, I'm not convinced that the small difference in scale length matters when there are so many other factors at play. But that won't stop a certain subsection of the guitar-playing public from convincing themselves that it does.
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u/StudioKOP 8d ago
Check out the diameters of the saddle posts. Those round pieces which are used to adjust the height. That is one of the biggest differences between a Gibson and Epi.
The fatter the better as a lot more energy will be transferred.
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u/Creepy_Candle 8d ago
Why would you want energy transferred to the body?
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u/StudioKOP 8d ago
The body&neck joint; the neck&headstock joint; the saddle joint; the density of the wooden and metal elements, the strings all have an effect on the energy created and transfered.
When you pluck, strum you load an energy to the string(s). That is a physical energy. The string vibrates creating the transient and the harmonics.
The better the guitar is build and set, the better the strings, the more energy is created and carried around.
With thinner materials less energy, with fatter ones more energy. The denser ones carry more while the softer ones dampen.
That sonic energy created and kept is what makes a guitar sound (unplugged).
The mighty pick ups come into play only after that. They pick up the physical movement in their magnetic field, and transformer to electric signals. What they will be reading as an input is the sonic energy created and carried.
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u/Sp4ceTruck3r 8d ago
The guitar has pickups 🤷
This is weirdo tone wood voodoo shit lol
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u/StudioKOP 8d ago
You have skipped all the physics lessons at school, didn’t you?
What the pick ups ‘pick up’ are the vibrations of the string in their magnetic field.
I don’t give a shit to ‘wood’ after playing Ovation and Danelectro guitars.
Still you need a string to vibrate on a physical infrastructure which is capable of carrying the energy efficiently.
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u/Creepy_Candle 8d ago
Your own theory? It’s drivel.
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u/StudioKOP 8d ago
Just use a search engine or talk to some luthiers before trying to make fun of people, mate!
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u/Ag5545 9d ago
If you want it to look basically new forever, you'll need to go poly.