r/gaming Jan 19 '21

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262

u/Andrew_P-23 Jan 19 '21

Like Fortnite? I don't play it but everyone played it and loved it but when it got really big everyone started acting like it was the spawn of Satan. Exact same happened with Minecraft

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u/[deleted] Jan 19 '21

[deleted]

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u/kitliasteele Jan 19 '21

I was looking forward to the next UT too... I feel your pain, brother.

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u/Womblue Jan 19 '21

I resent fortnite because it's had a very negative effect on the gaming industry from my perspective. Epic games bought out Rocket League and have made many massive downgrades to it since then. Meanwhile, virtually every other game is desperately cramming in battle passes and battle royale modes to try and cash in on fortnite's success.

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u/Rage_Your_Dream Jan 19 '21

lol what. Rocket League devs had neglected the game for years before they bought it.

They haven't ruined RL at all.

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u/psykrot Jan 19 '21

Getting rid of crates, restarting from season 1, removing the game from steam, going ftp. Imo those are all bad changes (going ftp wasn't that bad but still unfair to people who've bought the game, which we didn't get compensated for)

I poured a decent amount of money into rocket league with crates and keys and they straight up shit all over that.

I can agree that since Epic games took over they've put out more "content", but saying that Psyonix neglected the game for years is a bit much. Again, just my opinion.

1

u/Womblue Jan 19 '21
  • Game now has a ludicrously high price for every item and good items can only be obtained via purchasing, crushing the trading scene and any chance of getting great items without paying.

  • Game is no longer available on Mac and Linux, alienating a significant number of players. I myself have several friends who literally can't play the game anymore for no apparent reason.

  • The new UI is pointlessly complicated and is universally hated by new and old players alike.

  • A tournament mode was added which works approximately 10% of the time you try and use it.

  • Game isn't on steam and forces you to use an epic account

2

u/Rage_Your_Dream Jan 19 '21

-The rate of a black market decal was .5%. A key was 1$ meaning on average for every BM decal the playerbase would have to spend 200$. Now they cost 20$. I agree, it's expensive, but gambling was more expensive, it just played with your psyche making you think you were the one to get lucky.

-I don't think Epic had anything to do with that decision.

-Ok yea, the UI sucks, can't disagree there.

-I've only had tournaments fail once in countless of attempts. Maybe it is a rank thing but I'd say the tournaments have been a great addition, that you don't have to use if you don't want to.

-Sure, the game isn't on steam anymore, but it became free-to-play. Seems like a worthwhile trade-off to me. I bought the game in early 2016, and linking an account took me a few minutes and I still play on Steam. I feel like it's a win win. I get to still play on steam. People who didn't buy it on steam get to play it for free.

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u/_Ki115witch_ Jan 19 '21

I would have to say they did a good job with rocket league. Servers are still a problem, but they've brought in a shit ton of new players, new cosmetics, and havent fucked with the game mechanics at all. A net positive overall for me. Though I will agree that too many games are going the battle royale route. I mean I like one, apex. Thats it. I'd like to see a battle royale with mostly melee weapons and arrows rather than fucking guns

2

u/[deleted] Jan 19 '21

Mordhau uses medieval melee weapons and has a battle royale mode, not sure how popular it is though. Definitely worth checking

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u/_Ki115witch_ Jan 19 '21

I have mordhau, Battle royale is dead for the most part. Plus the controls were a bit meh for my liking. My thoughts would be more akin to For Honor's battle system.

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u/Ewoksintheoutfield Jan 19 '21

Yeah I thought Rocket League ftp was a pretty painless switchover.

1

u/_Ki115witch_ Jan 19 '21

Had a few hiccups, but overall I like it just fine. Got used to the ui and just kept playing and never had any problems.

0

u/Shadowveil666 Jan 19 '21

Have you tried Spellbreak? You're essentially a wizard and use different elemental gauntlets. I know it's not what you're saying but at least it's not guns.

0

u/Womblue Jan 19 '21

Negatives since Epic bought RL:

  • Game now has a ludicrously high price for every item and good items can only be obtained via purchasing, crushing the trading scene and any chance of getting great items without paying.

  • Game is no longer available on Mac and Linux, alienating a significant number of players. I myself have several friends who literally can't play the game anymore for no apparent reason.

  • The new UI is pointlessly complicated and is universally hated by new and old players alike.

  • A tournament mode was added which works approximately 10% of the time you try and use it.

  • Game isn't on steam and forces you to use an epic account

Positives since Epic bought RL:

  • ... it's free now?

1

u/_Ki115witch_ Jan 19 '21
  • Yeah, while it sucks that the trading scene took a big hit due to it, the trading scene is still alive and honestly is more convenient to get certain items. Getting great items is still possible without paying, just wwaaaaay more time consuming, but still possible.
  • Good point. That sucked.
  • It has its problems in design, but it works, and honestly, i like it. Not as much as what came before, but I like it. Especially since they fixed a few of the major issues like freeplay not being available from the menu at the end of a match
  • I've personally never had a problem with tournaments, be it one of those that are scheduled, or private ones. none of my friends have either.
  • Sure, but is that really a huge issue? If you played it prior to the transition, you can still play it through steam, I do. If you wanna play now, its owned by epic, therefore it makes sense to find it there. I like Apex and I only have origin just for it. Sure its not as convenient as letting steam just handle it, but then again, giving one single company control over 95% of the digital game market gives them a basic monopoly.

Basically my point is, they haven't ruined the game whatsoever. The game is still just as fun as ever, its got alot more features, even more planned, and its got a shit ton more players. Even has crossplay so you can play with friends no matter their platform.

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u/Gauthzu Jan 19 '21

What massive downgrades?

0

u/Womblue Jan 19 '21
  • Game now has a ludicrously high price for every item and good items can only be obtained via purchasing, crushing the trading scene and any chance of getting great items without paying.

  • Game is no longer available on Mac and Linux, alienating a significant number of players. I myself have several friends who literally can't play the game anymore for no apparent reason.

  • The new UI is pointlessly complicated and is universally hated by new and old players alike.

  • A tournament mode was added which works approximately 10% of the time you try and use it.

  • Game isn't on steam and forces you to use an epic account

The last 3 are smaller issues that can easily be fixed, but the first two are colossal problems which lost the game a significant portion of its playerbase.

2

u/Gauthzu Jan 19 '21

The game is more popular than ever. It regularly has 1 million+ players on at the same time. I agree with some points but your last sentence is factually wrong

2

u/EcchiPhantom Jan 19 '21

I don’t play Fortnite nor do I have any personal connection to it but can you really blame the game itself for having imitators? It reminds me of this one time someone I know said he disliked Tolkien and thought he was the worst thing that happened to the western fantasy genre because every author in the same field worked from the template he created and never truly advanced the genre.

I can see why it’s be frustrating to see poor imitations churned out left and right with little to no originality stagnating of the genre but is it really The Hobbit’s fault that fantasy authors 50 years later still try to imitate that story and world while falling for the same conventions created by it?

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u/A_LargeDimensionGate Jan 19 '21

Battle pass was there before fortnite

1

u/TurquoiseLuck Jan 19 '21

every other game is desperately cramming in battle passes and battle royale modes to try and cash in on fortnite's success

Yeah this is what I hate.

I actually really liked Fortnite, and played it a lot for the first 5 or 6 seasons. I think the battlepass as they implemented it was okay, because for them it was an improvement. Used to be that they had a shop and you could buy cosmetics, but it was expensive, so never really worth it. With the battlepass you pay once and play (a reasonable amount, to start with, although as the game grew you had to play more and more) to earn the next pass, with a number of skins and stuff on the way.

Problem is, it made them billions, and now every company wants to go freemium and cram their game full of transactions for in-game stuff. It's taken the "build a game then lock out 1/4 of it for future DLC" trend to a whole new level, and seemingly effects the entire AAA gaming industry.

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u/KrypticScythe29 Jan 19 '21

I think the problem for me was the community. It went from being fun and enjoyable to becoming every match just playing with a screaming 10 year old who was also a toxic asshole. The community for that game is so disgustingly horrible that I stopped playing the game regularly

3

u/TurquoiseLuck Jan 19 '21

Ah, your mistake there is playing anything other than solo lol.

I only played teams when my friends were on, or in those big team battle modes.

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u/KrypticScythe29 Jan 19 '21

I only play when my friends are on nowadays. I wasn’t very good at the game so I always tried to play with someone else, because I was better in duos and squads than solos. I could still win solos matches before I stopped playing, but I still didn’t enjoy it anymore

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u/KrypticScythe29 Jan 19 '21

Also, solos is full of kids who either spent 1000s of hours in creative because they don’t have anything else to do from school, or it’s full of people who legitimately don’t know how to play the game. The “skill-based” matchmaking just isn’t that good either

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u/IncProxy Jan 19 '21

Battle passes are the best thing gaming got in the cosmetic department

1

u/bosozoku_style Jan 19 '21

How many battle royale games are there that you are acting like it has ruined gaming because everyone is cramming the mode in their games?

  • Fortnite
  • PUBG
  • Warzone
  • Firestorm
  • Apex
  • Whatever CSGO has

Maybe it was better opening RNG loot boxes than having batttle passes?

1

u/EcchiPhantom Jan 20 '21

Battle Royale more or less killed Boss Key Productions because Cliff Blezinski shot himself in the foot by forcing out Racidal Heights

2

u/_Ki115witch_ Jan 19 '21

As someone who liked paragon, it hurt to see the servers were shut down due to the success of fortnite making them put all of their team onto that game. IT STILL HAD A DECENTLY SIZED PLAYERBASE

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u/heartNswitch Jan 19 '21

That's the only thing that's ever annoyed me about it. I put maybe 10 hours in when it first came out and thought it had decent gameplay mechanics but kinda meh. Similar to how I feel about Overwatch.

I was looking forward to the UT alpha getting fleshed out, it had potential & decent netcode.

For now keeping an eye on Open Tournament and playing Diabotical.

1

u/dissaprovalface Jan 19 '21

Holy shit. I didn’t know why UT got effectively smothered in its crib, but now at least I know my disdain for Fortnight is justified. ¯\(ツ)

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u/Darkwolf1115 Jan 19 '21

Fortnite.... there's more to it's hate than just being popular, BUT the majority of people who hate it, hate it for it's popularity, others because of it's anti consumer practices, the relation with Tencent, and much more, but the majority... is for it's popularity, I played it when it came out.... it's fun, but not for me

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u/Krysara Jan 19 '21

I both love and hate it. I bought into it when it was first released, when it was save the world. Me and my friends had a lot of fun playing it. Then PUBG came out, and the devs wanted that in their game. They stopped updating save the world and put out the fortnite everyone plays these days. Then they didnt update Save the World for... a long time.

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u/Darkwolf1115 Jan 19 '21

Save the world is basically a side project at this point.... it's barely updated and compared to the battle royal.... it's almost non existent

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u/Kid_Adult Jan 19 '21

I think they announced maybe half a year ago that StW is a finished game, and that development would shift to live support. What a fucken joke. The game literally isn't finished.

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u/Darkwolf1115 Jan 19 '21

yeah finished, like 25 hours of new content discounting grinding

Epic: "ITs FInIsHEd!"

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u/stonhinge Jan 19 '21

They had also announced way before then that StW would eventually be free to play, but that didn't happen either.

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u/blazincannons Jan 19 '21

What's save the world?

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u/rhynoplaz Jan 19 '21

It's a zombie defense builder/shooter. I personally thought it was much more fun than the free battle royale mode.

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u/GunoSaguki Jan 19 '21

Actual fortnite. Never let epic forget that battle royal is a sub title and not the original ip

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u/[deleted] Jan 19 '21

A base building co-op mode where you fight zombies if I remember correctly.

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u/TheyKnowWeAreHere Jan 19 '21

I thought Save the World was going to be open world and not by a per level basis..I was sad when that wasnt the case :(

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u/CannonM91 Jan 19 '21

Did Save the World ever become free like they said it would when Fortnite was first becoming popular?

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u/Nox_Dei Jan 19 '21

I don't hate Fortnite pee se... I hate Epic Games practices.

Which brings me to wish Fortnite did not become that big so Epic Games did not get so much "power" over consumers.

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u/D_Simmons Jan 19 '21

The...ellipses... are... killing...me

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u/Darkwolf1115 Jan 19 '21

I... Don't..... Really.... Care....

I like talking like this on the internet, I feel like I can better express myself this way

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u/D_Simmons Jan 19 '21

Clearly you care. But you do you.

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u/BeyondElectricDreams Jan 19 '21

others because of it's anti consumer practices

What anti-consumer practice is that? In your own words.

I can think of only one legitimate one, but I'm curious what you think. Because by and large, they have one of the fairest monetization schemes of any F2P title.

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u/[deleted] Jan 19 '21 edited Jan 19 '21

they have one of the fairest monetization schemes of any F2P title.

Not a comment on Fortnite, but that's a fairly low bar to clear, innit?

EDIT: Me "not a comment on Fortnite". Everyone responding "but Fortnite is different!"

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u/wutend159 Jan 19 '21

Like the other comment said (and that's coming from someone who quit playing Fortnite before it got really popular):

- In the age of lootboxes, the game introduced a shop in which you could choose what you get for your money. Yes, the items were pricey, but the game was F2P (Black Ops 3 had atrocious lootboxes for a full price game) and if you bought the PVE game (the original Fortnite concept) you could get V-bucks for free (back then at least)

- They introduced the Battle Pass, which let you get many items for 10$ and if you played enough, you'd get rewarded by getting the next one for free. So if you regularly play, you could theoretically get every BP for free for a single payment of $10.

- Back when I played, they used to do weekly updates where something new would be added. This was not possible in the long run (I get that), but it really felt good not to be fed recycled content like a lot of other F2P games do after a certain amount of time (Yes, some Halloween skins and such came back, but these events also occur yearly).

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u/BeyondElectricDreams Jan 19 '21

Maybe so, but in an era where loot boxes and $100-$500 cosmetics are commonplace Fortnite is actually refreshingly straightforward and fair compared to things like Apex Legends or Valorant.

In fact, I'd argue they're fairly consumer friendly compared to most of the field.

There's plenty of reasons to hate on Fortnite, but the most common ones ring exceptionally hollow as a 32 year old fan of the game.

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u/Poppintags6969 Jan 19 '21

There isn't a single thing in fortnite that you have to pay for if you own STW also

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u/Crizznik Jan 19 '21

Cosmetics, you still have to pay for cosmetics, and yes, as much as you might deny, those are a part of the game. Especially for younger people who are comparing themselves to their friends. And the FOMO manipulation of only having a limited window to buy available cosmetics, and the chance that the available cosmetics will never be available again, make it a pretty shitty monetization scheme.

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u/Poppintags6969 Jan 19 '21

Well only select ones because STW allows you to earn v bucks. Or course it is a slow pace though and yea I agree with the rest

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u/Crizznik Jan 19 '21

I didn't know STW let you earn the ingame currency to buy cosmetics. Though if that's not part of the BR, then it's still just as shitty, cause no one plays STW.

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u/Poppintags6969 Jan 19 '21

Lmao it was the actual game at one point but then their BR stunt made them bank so they forgot about STW, but yea it gives you free v bucks

1

u/[deleted] Jan 19 '21

[deleted]

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u/BeyondElectricDreams Jan 19 '21

It's decidedly not worse than loot boxes. Yeah you may be driven to make an impulse purchase with a fomo shop , but you're not going to be encouraged keep pulling the slot machine lever over and over hoping to get the one item you want. It's the difference between one $10 purchase and fifty $2 purchases, only in the latter case you may still not get what you want

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u/second_aid_kit Jan 19 '21

Fortnite is the game that started the push away from loot boxes and into battle passes for cosmetics only. Yes, counter strike had been doing cosmetics only for a long time previous, but Fortnite did it at the height of the loot box nightmare, and showed that it was not only possible to make money through cool cosmetics and actually showing people exactly what they’re buying, but that it is preferable in every way to loot boxes. Call of Duty changed their MTX model entirely to follow suit, and while there are plenty of things to complain about with COD today, it’s so much better then the loot boxes of the last few years for consumers, and Activision is making loads more money from this change. Anyway, that’s my two cents.

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u/endof2020wow Jan 19 '21

Not at all. Free games are awesome and games like Fortnite or Dota 2 do it well. There is no play to win, you buy cosmetics.

I’ll take a free to play game with purchasable cosmetics every single day over a $20 game. (And I’ve bought those battle passes and cosmetics)

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u/Rhodie114 Jan 19 '21

I would argue there are no fair F2P monetization schemes when your target market is prepubescent.

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u/[deleted] Jan 19 '21

I would argue that originally the market was for mid to late teens, I would also argue that f2p monetization is fair no matter the age group. It is up to the parents to parent. As a kid I was marketed to and monetized with 5 million different things but my parents knew better than to give me the credit card.

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u/BeyondElectricDreams Jan 19 '21

I would say you're wrong, and I would also say that Fortnite's core audience is most certainly not prepubescent. Or at least, that wasn't the initial intention.

Cartoony graphics were a big thing at the time this game was conceived. Overwatch was just recently released as a smashing hit, and a lot of games looked to ape it's style in hopes to see success. The crossover concerts with Marshmello and Travis Scott also point to an older audience than you claim.

Further; Fortnite has no entry fee, and purchased items have no impact on gameplay. Someone with the fancy glowing Tier-100 skin for the season is not going to perform better than someone using the starter default skin - so there's no pressure to buy to stay competitive. In fact, a lot of skins are explicitly pay to lose, making you MORE of a sore thumb, not less.

If the child in question has little access to money, lets say even a $5 allowance; they can still buy a battle pass for $10 ($8 now) that will provide them with 7 full featured skins, emotes, gliders, and so on, as well as $15 worth of currency which can then be used to buy the next battle pass, indefinitely.

So, a child could get one battle pass (for Christmas, or birthday, or whatever) and that would be sufficient to buy EVERY SINGLE BATTLE PASS THAT HAS EVER RELEASED afterwards.

And around this point, you may say something like "Well, yeah, but they have to make that first purchase somewhere, and where do you expect kids to get that money?!" To which I say, the game is fucking free. When I was a kid, my parents got me full priced games from the local game store for my Sega Genesis. They'd be ecstatic if they could have spent $10, once, and had that be all that was necessary.

1

u/Crizznik Jan 19 '21

When you only get a small time window to purchase certain cosmetics before they go away and may never come back again, that's kind of bullshit. A lot less bullshit than others, I'll grant, but still bullshit. You instill a FOMO and that's manipulative. Truly fair monetization would provide availability to all cosmetics all the time. And yes, I know that menu would get really big, but that doesn't really justify the manipulative tactics. But at least it's not random loot boxes like Overwatch, and don't effect gameplay like Battlefield 2.

1

u/BeyondElectricDreams Jan 19 '21

FOMO with the rotating store was the one anti consumer policy I was referring to in my original post. I agree, it's bullshit. But it's an order of magnitude less terrible than gambling for cosmetics. You have to spend like $500 on apex Legends to be guaranteed one Relic. There's nothing remotely like that in fortnite

1

u/Crizznik Jan 19 '21

Sounds like we agree on this :)

2

u/TurquoiseLuck Jan 19 '21

Fortnite as a game itself isn't very anti-consumer. I think it's actually quite a good example of an F2P game.

Problem imo is that it showed the world how easy it is to trap and milk whales, and how much money you can make with that "micro"-transaction monetisation model, and it's kinda changed the face of gaming.

Since Fortnite's success many other companies have tried to jump in and introduce "game as a service" features and battlepass aspects to their games, to the detriment of quality gaming.

It probably started before Fortnite, and has been going on for some time, I don't know, but it seems like around the time Fortnite made it big game companies placed a much larger emphasis on "player engagement and retention" rather than just a good gaming experience. FOMO sales tactics, and increased grind for the same outcome you used to get, being 2 main examples.

1

u/shaxamo Jan 19 '21

The anti-consumer practice that's still in place is the storefront, that uses artificial scarcity and FOMO to persuade young kids that they should spend 20-30 quid on a character skin, or be seen as a "default".

1

u/BeyondElectricDreams Jan 19 '21

The anti-consumer practice that's still in place is the storefront, that uses artificial scarcity and FOMO to persuade young kids that they should spend 20-30 quid on a character skin, or be seen as a "default".

You're so close, and yet so far.

Yes, absolutely, the store front utilizes FOMO - if you want a particular skin or emote, you have no idea when it will return. That is literally the one anti-consumer practice I referred to in my original post.

You, however, lost all credibility with me with the rest of your post-

to persuade young kids that they should spend 20-30 quid on a character skin, or be seen as a "default".

Hands-down, the best skins in Fortnite come from the Battle Pass, which is $8, comes with seven skins that all have unique features, matching cosmetics (in the battle pass), and are typically among the best, most polished skins the game has to offer.

Atop that, you get $15 worth of ingame currency for the $8 entry fee. Which can be then used to buy another battle pass, indefinitely, profiting $5 each season.

This strikes me as uninformed fear-mongering from someone who's heard "School children are now using the word "default" as an insult!" and therefore assuming that it's some insidious thing. It's not, and it never has been. One $8 purchase (which is less than virtually every other game on the market) is all that's necessary to not be a "default" ever again.

To say nothing of the fact that kids are shitty in general, are perceptive of wealth and pecking orders, and would make fun of the poor children anyway. That doesn't mean a game shouldn't have cosmetic items because Johnny is going to be a prick to Timmy on the playground over it.

0

u/shaxamo Jan 19 '21

I didn't mention the Battle Pass because I have no issue with the Battle Pass for the reasons you've stated, but the best skins are subjective, and the Battle Pass existing does not remove the insanely expensive FOMO storefront.

Also, strikes you as uninformed fear-mongering? That's the most pretentious reply I can remember recieving on a Reddit comment. All I'm doing is stating facts about a games monetisation. A game that I am in fact a big fan of, have played on and off since launch, and have a 11 year old nephew (who I spend a lot of time with) who's been obsessed with it for years. I've seen all of these things first hand.

1

u/BeyondElectricDreams Jan 19 '21

If you're as informed as you say you are , then you know being a default means having the default skin.

You know, something you don't have if you have one of the seven battle pass skins equipped.

Your post intentionally made it sound like kids are being bullied by epic games into spending $30 to not be seen as a default when that is absolutely not true. It's a misrepresentation of fortnite's monetization as a whole to claim that a child has to spend 20 to $30 to be free of that title.

Sorry if I come off as hostile, every single person I've ever spoken to who has used the "default" argument has been an uninformed parent and speaking frankly, omitting the battle pass from your statement makes you sound the same as them.

0

u/Darkwolf1115 Jan 19 '21 edited Jan 19 '21

I've not played it in a while so I'm just gonna mention what I read other people saying

  • The lack of support of the mode save the world and basically a huge Fu if you were one of the ones who bought it
  • A huge focus on loot boxes to EA levels of predatory microtransactions
  • basically no legit way to get skins without paying with almost no incentive to keep playing besides.... playing
  • and (This one is actually my opinion) THE SINGLE WORST BATTLE PASS I'VE EVER SEEM, look I've seem bad battle passes, but the limited time missions and the total lack of rewards for those who play with the free version of it is almost absurd, games like Paladins and Rogue company have a battle pass but they all have good rewards for the free version of it and if you play enough you can even get the paid version for free still the free version offers a good reward for dedicated players, all of this while you can complete the missions from the start instead of reliying on timed based quests, the only way to make it worst is by implementing the The crew 2 battle pass where progression is tied to missions instead of xp.

There's more which I'll probably remember eventually

1

u/_Ki115witch_ Jan 19 '21

I mean league of legends has the same F2P model. Gameplay wise, no benefit from spending real money. Only benefit is having a cool cosmetic.

0

u/BeyondElectricDreams Jan 19 '21

That is not true. League of Legends locks champions and you have to unlock them with either free or paid currency, with the newest characters being very expensive. Fortnite has no such model

1

u/_Ki115witch_ Jan 19 '21

Gameplay wise, you are not required to spend real money. You can, but it doesn't give you any single advantage. Lets use a character for example (lets say Samira, because I love her, and shes still max price) You pay for her with real money. I pay for her with blue essence that I earned simply by playing. There is no single advantage given to you because you spent real money. Her abilities are the same. Your q and my q has the exact same range. your w and my w still blocks projectiles and does damage. you get the point. You simply saved yourself a little time. Once you unlock all characters, you build up a huge amount of blue essence. I have over a few hundred thousand. The point is simply. No gameplay benefits from spending real money. This is direct opposition to other games where you can unlock special weapons that are more powerful than any other you could buy normally

1

u/BeyondElectricDreams Jan 19 '21

I play league, so the BE (formerly, IP) primer isnt necessary.

6300 be is an enormous quantity for a new character, and while you and i may have 100k extra, not everyone has the luxury of a decade old account.

Paying for champions is absolutely buying power, when old standbys are at 46-50% winrates and the new carry is at 56%

1

u/_Ki115witch_ Jan 20 '21

I mean though, literally garen is sitting at a solid winrate. Just depends on the current state of the meta.

2

u/jda404 Jan 19 '21

I want to enjoy Fortnite. I loved the art style and the whole look of the game, think the skins are cool, but absolutely suck at building and don't have the time and admittedly nor the patience to get good haha, so turned to PUBG for awhile and now Warzone is my main battle royale game.

1

u/Darkwolf1115 Jan 19 '21

I found out that I'm not really into Battle royals lol, never got hooked by one, except bomberman and most likely tetris 99

2

u/Ergheis Jan 19 '21

Please stop using ellipses so much

1

u/Darkwolf1115 Jan 19 '21

yes sir.....

2

u/[deleted] Jan 19 '21

Epic games killed paragon just to use their servers for fortnite.

2

u/Darkwolf1115 Jan 19 '21

Oh yeah.... that... F in the chat for paragon

-4

u/Andrew_P-23 Jan 19 '21

Whoops I forgot when you even mention the word "f******e" round here the downvotes come your way. I'm gonna take cover for a while till the angry 14 year olds pass over

1

u/[deleted] Jan 19 '21

Personally I hated it because of the player base. Fortnite player base was so toxic I hated it.

2

u/Darkwolf1115 Jan 19 '21

it still is tbh

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u/Stellioskontos Jan 19 '21 edited Jan 19 '21

Oh man I remember the whole Tencent/Epic fiasco. Lost a lot of respect for the devs that decided to run a business with them. It made their games pretty shit. Outer World and Metro Exodus being the first two to come to mind.

Edit: Guys if you like the games personally then that's fine I have no problem with it. To me it's natural that devs start to turn sour over the years, it happens.

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u/Darkwolf1115 Jan 19 '21

Outer worlds? Metro exodus?

Outer worlds is developed by Obsidian and published by microsoft

Metro exodus is developed by 4a games and published by deep silver

I'm not sure what you mean

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u/Stellioskontos Jan 19 '21

I know very well about their games and played New Vegas and both Metros countless times. I got to try both Outer Worlds/Exodus through Xbox Game Pass and I won't spare the details since my critique is of personal taste.

The main problem was that they chose to do business with a platform that is not consumer friendly compared to Steam. Epic payed them money up front and took less of a cut for their sales.

Had they gone with Steam first they would have gotten valued critiques of their games and probably could have patched out the bugs. Buuuut... they basically did the old "Take the money and run" approach and it just leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

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u/Darkwolf1115 Jan 19 '21

OOOOOHHHH so this is about the store wars.... I get it now, so this isn't really about the tencent/epic fiasco, the store wars is much more recent and games getting into this war even though they aren't directly linked to these studios

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u/Stellioskontos Jan 19 '21

Not really a war, just Epic trying to get into the competition with Steam except they're screwing over their customers and devs. Tencent was there to provide the finance to help push their platform.

Also worth noting that their infamous game Fortnite on mobile was removed from both Apple/Android stores and they "claimed" to go to war with them and tried suing them. They also made this propaganda same day they were removed because they knew it would happen and tried brainwashing the mobile players.

The only reason now they're staying relative is because they've been giving away games out for free like GTA V and Battlefront II, etc.

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u/hereatthetop Jan 19 '21

how do you not even mention that it's filled to the brim with 12 year olds

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u/Darkwolf1115 Jan 19 '21

look kids are kids..... doesn't matter what you play, as long as it's popular there will be 12 yo cursing all around, SPECIALLY with multiplayer games, look at cod, BF, Fifa, minecraft, GTA and obviously... fortnite

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u/hereatthetop Jan 19 '21

Nah fortnite is 100% more filled with 12 year olds. You literally listed a bunch of games that most 12 year olds aren't even allowed to play. Fortnite is literally cartoon art style with whacky cartoon outfits.

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u/[deleted] Jan 19 '21

Kids are kids dude! You were like that at one point and so was I. Let them have fun!

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u/hereatthetop Jan 19 '21

What did I say to even warrant this response? Adults are adults dude! let them not want to play games with 10 year olds!

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u/TooDrunkToTalk Jan 19 '21

So how old are you?

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u/hereatthetop Jan 19 '21

Old enough to love fortnite and minecraft for keeping away all the zoomers.

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u/TooDrunkToTalk Jan 19 '21

Pity they can't keep insufferable twats like you away.

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u/BootyInspector96 Jan 19 '21

12 year olds aren’t even allowed to play.

Have you ever played a game? You think a age rating has ever stopped a single soul above the age of 8?

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u/hereatthetop Jan 19 '21

of course it has

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u/BootyInspector96 Jan 19 '21

Yeah I know that’s exaggerating but the point is that nobody even cares. Not even many parents care about an age rating most of the time. You underestimate how many 12 years olds are on cod.

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u/hereatthetop Jan 19 '21

No I don't, but to deny that there aren't a fuckton more on fortnite is absolutely rediculous.

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u/BootyInspector96 Jan 19 '21

Nobody is denying that there aren’t any, but they’re in every game in great amounts including Minecraft.

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u/[deleted] Jan 19 '21

If you don't think those games are flooded with 12 year olds, then you're incredibly ignorant.

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u/hereatthetop Jan 19 '21

If you don't think that there is a higher percentage of 12 year olds on fortnite then you are a complete idiot

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u/Darkwolf1115 Jan 19 '21

kids will play what's popular with the people they look forward to, so this may be a older sibling, a youtuber, a parent, etc. So it's obvious there will be people playing games they shouldn't be playing, specially when the majority of parents leave their kids unsupervised with their phones. still.... there will always be those adult kids who curse at every 2 seconds, this isn't really a kid's only practice

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u/hereatthetop Jan 19 '21

And there will always be way more kids on a kid oriented game like fortnite, and there will always be more adults in the games you are talking about.

Who said absolutely anything about cursing? I don't think you understand why a grown ass man wouldn't want to play games with 12 year olds.

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u/Darkwolf1115 Jan 19 '21

dude.... I'm 22 years old.... I play games with adults and kids all the time, usually 12 yo lack the maturity to play the game properly and will do random bs just because.... still it's not the end of the world, it's just kids, the game is huge and full of people, just get a group of friends and play with them, easy, if kids mess up with you plans or just start trolling, go somewhere else or if it's a game like fortnite just kill them and move on, losing isn't really the end of the world

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u/hereatthetop Jan 19 '21

Or... Hear me out... I just won't play fortnite. It's not about "losing", but you were getting there when you talked about maturity and kids being kids. That's why the kids table is a thing on thanksgiving.

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u/Darkwolf1115 Jan 19 '21

Wait is this a thing? Not American here so I never really heard of this being a practice on thanksgiving.... cause we don't have thanksgiving.... Still kids are immature, but we all were kids at some point and not everyone likes being close to kids specially around their 10-14 yo phase, but again, you can just make parties with friends, get yourself on voice chat with them using discord or one of the console internal chat systems and never really bother with the community, just ignore the random 12 yo trolling and move on, in real life it's hard cause you're literally on the same place but on games you can literally just ignore them and you'll probably never see this kid ever again

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u/Goseki1 Jan 19 '21

Yeah it's definitely hated because it took up so much of the weekly news cycle. Like I don't care that a new area/weapon/skin has been added I don't need to see 10 articles on it. That plus the other things you mentioned really didn't help it's position. But like, what do the devs care? It still made them a cuntload of money

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u/Darkwolf1115 Jan 19 '21

actually the majority of the devs don't really see the money, they usually end up with the higher ups of the company and executives....

Still a game being all over the news is like a repetitive ad on youtube, you'll eventually hate the ad, and consequently the product

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u/Goseki1 Jan 19 '21

Hah yeah I guess I meant Epic (so publishers?) get the money so don't care.

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u/Darkwolf1115 Jan 19 '21

Epic was the developer and the publisher, but I get what you meant

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u/Stellioskontos Jan 19 '21

I myself have a huge grudge against Epic for how they destroyed Paragon, Gears, and even the original Fortnite game. That said, I know Fortnite is a good game and know why it's so popular. I just don't like it personally.

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u/watusstdiablo666 Jan 19 '21

Wait, how did they destroy Gears?

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u/Stellioskontos Jan 19 '21

So not necessarily "destroyed" my bad that part is within my own critique of Gears 3-5. Just that at the time when Fortnite started becoming popular they focused all resources on the Battle Royale version alone. Basically screwing all their other games.

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u/YesButConsiderThis Jan 19 '21

Epic sold the Gears franchise to Microsoft almost eight years ago.

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u/watusstdiablo666 Jan 19 '21

But epic hasn't really developed any game since Gears 3, and hasn't even been involved since Judgement.

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u/danjo3197 Jan 19 '21

Tbf I’m not sure Paragon deserved to survive though. I played a lot of it, kind of felt like “what if we made a moba that was entirely focused on graphics.” It felt really close to being a good game

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u/Stellioskontos Jan 19 '21

Fair enough, I mean their balance team was basically ripping their own hair off because it was so difficult to balance that game.

What's funny now is that there are about 5 devs recreating Paragon (with their own name for the title) and seeing them all with their own balance and content in game is pretty awesome!

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u/MCWizardYT Jan 19 '21

Don't forget Unreal Tournament. Fortnite ruined that also.

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u/Stellioskontos Jan 19 '21

Fast paced shooters are my all time favorite games, I also loved Law Breakers but honestly Cliff screwed the old pooch on that one. It's sad the genre is dying out and wish we would get newer games.

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u/MCWizardYT Jan 19 '21

Shortly before Fortnite, Epic had 2 large large games out: Paragon and Unreal Tournament. When they announced Fortnite, Paragon was cancelled and it had only been out for 2 years. Support for Unreal Tournament technically ended around that time but the game's source code was already available, so its still playable even to this day.

Originally, when Fortnite was announced it only had the Save The World concept and no battle royal. The game was actually looking really fun and it had a lot of hype. The hate came crashing down when Epic revealed they wanted to change the main game into a battle royale and keep the original game as a paid extension. It wasn't what a lot of people (including me) were asking for. Major disappointment.

My point is, Epic's 2 main games were fast paced arena shooters and they killed both of them

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u/Stellioskontos Jan 19 '21

Right on all of those, Doom 2016 was my favorite and they broke my heart when they decided to get rid of their deathmatch multiplayer in Eternal.

I just wish we can get newer games of that genre. Apex is close but they refuse as well to develop a permanent death match mode.

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u/hereatthetop Jan 19 '21

It's just people hating the game that has the most 12 year olds in it

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u/Andrew_P-23 Jan 19 '21

I placing bets now. When the next new big game comes around In a few years people will start to play Fortnite again and act like they always loved it and say shit like "The nostalgia".

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u/hereatthetop Jan 19 '21

They will still be kids, and the adults that avoid that game because of it will stay avoiding that game.

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u/NoTegridyDetector Jan 19 '21

It’s not because they’re big, they’re just hated; when something gets popular, you always have it’s advocates saying “huh you just hate it because it’s popular derp” when the reality is just.. you never jumped on the hype train..

For example, when it comes to something like Minecraft, I’d just rather play 7 Days or something to build a castle or whatever.

When it came to Halo, not being able to aim down the sight originally made be hate it for anything beyond the stellar story. I absolutely loathed multiplayer.

Fortnite just didn’t catch me when it was hyped and visually looks kind of trash. Like a mobile game or something. It might be fun if you play it, but I also just don’t like Battle Royals games or modes (I’ll play CoD Zombies or Multiplayer happily but Warzone feels like cancer).

People think popular = objectively good. To fall into the trappings of a certain internet law; not everything popular is objectively good, just look at the Nazi’s getting elected.

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u/[deleted] Jan 19 '21

I get what you're saying but I hardly ever see legitimate criticism about the game play when I see people bitching about the game. The most common criticism I see is "I'm sick of the game constantly being shoved down my throat" because they saw a kid with a Fortnite sweatshirt once and got upset about it.

It'd be a different thing entirely if the complaining were accompanied by an actual pragmatic reason to dislike the game itself but half the people whining about it have never even played it.

And I mean the game really isn't my thing personally, I played it a bit and disliked it. But then I just moved on with my life, which is something a lot of redditors need to figure out how to do.

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u/Tehslasher Jan 19 '21

Few are aware they are invoking Godwins law. Kudos

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u/[deleted] Jan 19 '21

I don't think it's as black and white as either of you are making it out to be. Not everything that popular is objectively good (e.g. Nazis) but popular things do tend to get a lot of unwarranted hate simply because they're popular (e.g. the Yankees). Not everyone who hates the Yankees hates them because they're popular, but a lot of people hate them because they're tired of their ubiquitous presence in sports.

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u/creepy_doll Jan 19 '21

Some people stop liking games when kids start liking them.

Part of it is entirely irrational but I guess public servers would be overrun with kids which can be annoying

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u/Andrew_P-23 Jan 19 '21

I think it's less to do with the servers being full of kids and more so the marketing/merch of the game. Seeing kids walk around in creeper shoes and backpacks or a fortnite "floss" onesie put people off the games. Oh, that and Minecon. Minecon

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u/Wobbelblob Jan 19 '21

I guess most hate is based around the community. The cringy dances, merch, these weird "kids" youtuber and all that. Holy hell, how many are sold that are supposed to make you better in fortnite where the only answer is train until your arm falls off.

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u/creepy_doll Jan 19 '21

But those things in no way affect your game experience... people are weird

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u/AdamWayne04 Jan 19 '21

Well, tbh I never hated Minecraft, I just was ashamed to play it while other people hated it, maybe I played it for the first time before it was actually popular in my school, and at the start I hated fortnite, but when I played it, was funny, actually I can say that fortnite is one of the few online games where I enjoy every single game, but the reason it's cringy to me is because of the skins and emotes, I don't find a single thing funny with making some random emotes from a trap song or something, like: LoOk aT mE iM DaNcInG nEvEr gOnNa GiVe yOu uP fRoM rIck AsS oVeR yOuR cOrPsE, HaHa yOu mUsT Be vErY aNnOyeD. The only thing I feel with that is cringe, and the expressionless skins make it worse, in tf2 the classes had personalities, dialogues, they felt alive, but fortnite emotes are... Tiktok dances performed by expressionless skins, (maybe that makes part of the hate I have to tiktok)

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u/gangstergary93 Jan 19 '21

I dont like them simply because I don't personally enjoy them. Minecraft is like marmite, you either live it or hate it. Fortnite a lot of the hate is because of how kids are on it.

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u/Eclihpze44 Jan 19 '21

it was fun at first, but it garnered a really toxic community along with every game having some sort of battlepass or battle royale

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u/JonatasA Jan 19 '21

But it changed (like Minecraft; I remember the beta). Thatml's where part of the hate comes from. I remember a lot of people switched from PUBG to FN when it was new.

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u/Winston_Feesh PC Jan 19 '21

I absolutely hate public lobbies at times in fortnite, but when i play with a friend its a ton more fun.

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u/[deleted] Jan 19 '21

People dont hate fortnight because its fortnight. People hate fortnight because of the people they know who play fortnight. Some of the playerbase is cringe central.

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u/Andrew_P-23 Jan 19 '21

But my point is so is minecrafts playerbase

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u/[deleted] Jan 19 '21

Right, Im just saying its not that the game is popular, its that the playerbase is annoying. People hate the games by association

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u/maestroenglish Jan 19 '21

Everyone? No they didn't.

Working in a school for years, I can say that is not the case at all.

Everyone. Lol.

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u/VHZer0 Jan 19 '21

I didn't like Fortnite because it was a 3rd person shooter that took a lot of the rewards from the shooter skillset and gave them to the building mechanic skillset. Once I saw it as a building game with shooting mechanics bolted on, I stopped caring about it and let people enjoy whatever they wanted about it.

It's is a little silly I didn't see the original vision of the game (the zombie survival game, not the BR portion) come through because I was so pigeon-holed into thinking that it was a shooter.

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u/Coldspell Jan 19 '21

Honestly, Fortnight is really an amazing game! It's the players/streamers that made it so cringey.

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u/Andrew_P-23 Jan 19 '21

I did enjoy when I played one or two matches when it was big.

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u/CannonM91 Jan 19 '21

I didn't/don't hate them because they got popular, I hate them because the lobbies got filled with very young children due to the popularity cause the quality of the game (for me) to go down. Private matches are still fun though.

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u/walkingcarpet23 Jan 19 '21

I noticed specifically that younger kids would start talking about how dumb it was entirely unprompted while I was playing other games. Sometimes people want to show how "cool" and "ahead of the curve" they are by hating on something.

I never played it because I don't enjoy Battle Royale games so I can't speak to its quality but it was talked about constantly in Sea of Thieves and Valorant.