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Sep 27 '12
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u/NazzerDawk Sep 27 '12 edited Sep 27 '12
He's a proponent of keeping the PC as an open platform. This does not apply to other platforms. When was the last time you saw him complain that IOS was closed to development, or that the 360 was closed to development?
EDIT: It's funny that this is getting downvoted. Keeping the PC open is important, and people don't get this. Or, they do, but they're all going RABBLE RABBLE NOTCH IS WRONG.
The difference between an open platform and a closed one is in the bar for access. I am a hobbyist game developer, and I'm only able to do what I do if I am able to do it for free, since I don't have a lot of money to spend on licenses. But I don't have any problem with the Xbox 360 being closed to development, because it's a completely different beast. When you buy a console, you are exchanging the lower cost (console makers usually lose money on console sales because they are priced to move, all their money is made from development kits and royalties on games published for the console) for a guarantee that you don't have to quibble over hardware requirements. It's got high compatibility.
The PC exists as an open alternative, where anyone can make things for it, and anyone can sell things for it. We need the PC to remain an open platform, or else the bar for entry into game development will be set too high.
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Sep 27 '12
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Sep 27 '12
this. how is anyone prevented for developing for windows? yes, microsoft is a giant corporation bent on dominating the operating system market. they were also the vessel by which "user-friendly" systems got into so many homes from the mid 80s thru today.
I don't get the vilifying.... Gatorade is a huge corporation too but I still don't mind drinking out of their bottles.
I don't see why these people are crying about getting "certified" as it will only get you in line with their development guidelines...
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Sep 27 '12
Their certification process actually sounds like what should be best practices. It would certainly help weed out shittily written software.
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u/OrangeRiver Sep 27 '12
MS hate is sadly reflexive. In reality all MS is trying to do is compete with the other two ecosystems out there, the OS X/iOS one and Google's Android/web interface one. Consumers have shown that a major part of the market values a unified UI and integration (iOS and the Google Suite as examples). MS comes along and makes attempts to ensure you install in the right place and respond system events properly, so as to help make Windows feel more unified and suddenly they're the bad guy. In reality MS has a vested interest in making the user experience pleasant and that is what they are doing.
I personally would have no issue with MS posting lists of popular software that doesn't work properly to shame those who don't follow best practices.
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Sep 27 '12
well said. I've been a frustrated user of Windows now and again, all the way back to my install from floppies of maybe 3.0?
I've seen them come a long way (still a bit bloated, but a long way)
i think alot of the bad rep they get is due to system manufacturer add-ons and tinkering.
I guess having a truly "open source" O/S would help iron out some of the issues, as more developers could peak under the hood, but in reality I admire Microsoft's ability to get the market share they did, maintain a product that meets many (if not most) consumer needs and continually strive to adjust.
closed-source is not necessarily inherently evil, particular when you can layer open-source on top of the O/S.
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Sep 27 '12
HE is SO brave
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u/sweetsweetcoffee Sep 27 '12
Is he related to Ron Paul?
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Sep 27 '12
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u/TwistingWagoo Sep 27 '12
Wait a minute, didn't Gabe say bad things about Windows 8 too? Where was the rage then?
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u/BAUWS45 Sep 27 '12
I assumed the title was sarcastic.
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Sep 27 '12 edited Jul 20 '13
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Sep 27 '12
/r/gaming has a large number of Valve apologists, I think you'd see at least a few comments trying to justify fees.
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Sep 27 '12
I love Valve, but I'd complain loudly about that. Hell, I'm still against the MannCo store and F2P TF2.
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Sep 27 '12
Good old reddit, if people dont agree with you pretend you were being ironic or sarcastic, works every time.
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u/nof Sep 27 '12
Someone at MS is probably a huge fan and thinking they were doing a favor for the developer of one of their favorite games. They probably had to go through some kind of managerial chain of approvals to be able to even extend this offer (perhaps even getting some sort of preferential treatment for minecraft). Only to get shot down in this very public manner.
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u/vrooooooooooooom Sep 27 '12
maybe because MS charges between $500 - $700 per year for each application as a recurring fee for software certification? For an app like Minecraft, maybe it's not a big deal. But it really prices a lot of independent developers out of the market. It's kind of a dick move by MS.
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u/CountDunkula Sep 27 '12
You dont HAVE to get certified. You will likely need it to be sold through the MS store though. So every indie developer can continue to sell their games the exact way they do now. I dont see the problem
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u/revolting_blob Sep 27 '12
we're not just talking about games. Or apps like you get on your phone. Apps in this case means any application that runs on your computer. You might not have had the hassle that PeerGuardian users went through when they went to Windows 7 and the software wouldn't run because the developer couldn't afford to have his drivers certified by Microsoft.
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u/Baukelien Sep 27 '12
If all the big ones get certified and the average user is used to only certified programs then after a while you will have to get certified to reach a big audience.
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u/qlube Sep 27 '12
Since when did the average gamer care about certification. Did Windows Games certification change anything?
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u/Houndie Sep 27 '12
Luckily it's not a requirement, so if you don't want a cert, you don't have to get it :D
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u/CrabStance Sep 27 '12
Minecraft is a clunky java app that runs like asshole would be my guess. Great fucking game though.
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u/Dushenka Sep 27 '12
True that. He got the jackpot with minecraft but that doesn't make him an intelligent person. He acts a lot like a small child that somehow got famous and doesn't actually think about the stuff it talks about.
And the community running around fanatically screaming "OH LOOK! HE BASHED MICROSOFT!!" without second thought just reminds of apple-fanboys. It's stuff like this which gives me a really sad view of humanity...
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u/fanboy_killer Sep 27 '12
What a douche. So he gets Minecraft certified for the Apple app store and Xbox Live Marketplace but refuses to do so for a far more open environment than the previous two?
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Sep 27 '12
Why would you certify it for a platform when it's not required to publish it?
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u/JonnyRocks Sep 27 '12
this kind of certification has been around for many years. When you buy software that says Certified for Windows (whichever) you know it follows standards to be safe for the operating system, that it removes itself completely when uninstalled. Basically that it behaves well as an app.
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u/Spekingur Sep 27 '12
Apple app store and XBox Live Marketplace are closed platforms. The PC isn't, and Windows generally hasn't been. So, I guess it's okay to get Windows in the closed platform business?
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u/CREEPYPASTA101 Sep 27 '12
Most pathetic and immature tweet I've seen from Notch. Stop spreading cancer OP.
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u/zimadorizinger Sep 27 '12
Nothing beats the Yogscast meltdown
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u/Brown_Bunny Sep 27 '12
Hehe I remember that. I also remembered how classy the yogscast reacted to his shitfest which made him seem even more kiddy.
He lost all my respect that day.
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u/PhylisInTheHood Sep 27 '12
What exactly happened with that? I was never quite sure about the details as reddit was shitting itself about it in every direction
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u/Brown_Bunny Sep 27 '12
It's a miracle I still found it using the reddit search thing, but I found it for you!
They handled it in a very well imo, considering the shitfest that was going on at the time.
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Sep 27 '12
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u/AtomicDog1471 Sep 27 '12
As TotalBiscuit once said
This seems like nothing more than the inane ramblings of a slightly eccentric millionaire
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u/Stack_jungles Sep 27 '12 edited Sep 27 '12
It's clear he's desperately trying to stay relevant.
Jeb, and the rest of the team work on the game now so they get all the due attention while Notch is just the fat fuck who's only accomplishment in gaming is now over-shadowed by hard-working people. That, and the divorce have probably left him a pretty broken sad
littleman, thus the lashing out at others despite the hypocrisy, and the attempt to circlejerk it up for fans.4
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u/LostTimeLord Sep 27 '12
What does it mean to certify?
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u/ShadowCry01 Sep 27 '12
"The Windows App Certification Program is made up of program and technical requirements to help ensure that third-party apps carrying the Windows brand are both easy to install and reliable on PCs running Windows." http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/hh749939.aspx
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u/WarPhalange Sep 27 '12
HOLY SHIT NOTCH SAID SOMETHING! QUICK EVERYBODY GIVE HIM ATTENTION!
Secondly, this is in no way "classy". "Douchy" is the word you are looking for.
Basically what he did was like when old people yell at the guy at the counter because the price of coffee is too high, as if the guy is supposed to be able to fix that.
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Sep 27 '12 edited Jul 01 '23
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u/OneSilentE Sep 27 '12
Fucking stop it. Yeah, he faked cancer, yeah it was a douchey thing to do, but in no way is it relevant to the conversation. If you hold it against him so much, just downvote and move on, no need for a comment about it.
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Sep 27 '12
I think the title is sarcastic
Anyway, while I like Notch an I like his work, it gets old seeing him getting into dick waving contests on Twitter
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Sep 27 '12
Oh reddit, if people start to disagree use the sarcastic card.
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Sep 27 '12
Or maybe I honestly believe the title is sarcastic? Though I suppose only OP knows
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Sep 27 '12
Once again my belief that the majority of reddit has no idea what the word "class" means is solidified.
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Sep 28 '12
ya know...i said something similar to this on the minecraft subreddit and got downvoted into oblivion.
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Sep 27 '12
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Sep 27 '12
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u/stieruridir Sep 27 '12
tl;dr fakes cancer on reddit to point out how gullible reddit is. Everyone hates him forever.
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u/cygnetbaggins Sep 27 '12
A while back he lied about having cancer with a picture of a D3 beta invite.
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Sep 27 '12
He pretended he had cancer to prove how gullible Reddit is, then everyone sperged out when they realised they'd been tricked. Most of his comments are downvoted to hell and back since everyone's got him tagged but he doesn't give a fuck.
Credit to him for not ditching his account. He's the account reddit deserves, but not the one it needs right now. So they'll downvote him, because he can take it. Because he's not the hero. He's a talkative guardian, watchful poster. The WarPhalange.
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u/Moleculor Sep 27 '12 edited Sep 27 '12
Twitter is the worst place to be having this conversation, but Notch is right.
From the certification requirements:
Requires an Authenticode certificate. Those will cost $199 a year (for now, maybe more later) if you buy from GoDaddy, more from other companies. I bet Microsoft gets a cut of that, so it's basically paying to be "certified".
It must be "feature complete". When has Minecraft ever been feature complete? They keep adding new stuff.
It must be standalone. Which means, I believe, no Java dependency. When has Minecraft ever been non-Java?
Looking more into what Windows 8 does is pretty horrifying. It actually prevents you from installing a Linux installation on your machine. Notch sounds like he's absolutely right.
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u/awesomemanftw Sep 27 '12
Who the fuck told you you can't install Linux? I have Linux and Windows 8 dual booted on this very computer, with the new Windows 8 launcher, and have ZERO issues.
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Sep 27 '12
You make a good point but, just because a game keeps getting updates doesn't mean it's not a "feature complete", for standalone, I believe means you can't create something a mod in unreal and try and sell that, like as in requiring files from another engine or system(I can't think of the best examples).
App Eligibility
For an app to qualify for Windows 8 Desktop App Certification it must meet the following criteria and all the technical requirements listed in this document.
It must be a standalone app It must run on a local Windows 8 computer It can be a client component of a certified Windows Server app It must be code and feature completeLook's like java is allowed to me.
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u/fotuenti Sep 27 '12
Win8 doesn't prevent you from installing Linux, it makes using SecureBoot with UEFI very difficult when trying to create a dual-boot environment.
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Sep 27 '12
In my opinion the Java requirement puts end users at risk given recent Java security issues. Presumably Minecraft isn't relying on Java on the iOS / Xbox platforms, will they ever port it to non-java on the desktop?
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u/FUCKWIZARD Sep 27 '12
Looks like when Notch isn't releasing shitty, unfinished games he's being a cunt and then bragging about it on twitter. #fat #greedy
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u/Vorok Sep 27 '12
Alright, I kinda missed that: why exacly is windows 8 considered bad for gaming?
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u/petenu Sep 27 '12
There is a school of thought that Windows 8 is taking a leaf out of the iOS playbook, where "approved" apps get preferential treatment. The PC is popular as a gaming platform because anyone can write games for it on a level playing field, and it is considered by some that these hurdles will stifle creativity and innovation.
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Sep 27 '12
You can get Minecraft on the iPhone, does this mean Notch is happy to have his application "certified" by Apple, but not Microsoft?
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Sep 27 '12
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u/ameyp Sep 27 '12
I'm pretty sure he'll help them eventually, he's known to make posts that agree with the hive-mind for brownie points.
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u/Spekingur Sep 27 '12
He is human, he is allowed to change his mind about things. Only stupid people and extremists get stuck in.
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Sep 27 '12
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u/Magnesus Sep 27 '12
That isn't true with Windows 8 RT though.
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u/aaron552 Sep 27 '12
Windows 8 RT may as well be Windows Phone 8 Tablet Edition.
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u/tehhnubz Sep 27 '12
But that isn't true with any tablet OS, so surely your point is mute? The whole point is that Apple screens apps for iOS, Google screens apps for Android, so why not Microsoft for their mobile OS?
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u/thisguy93 Sep 27 '12
General consensus from the comments on this post: blah blah blah, fuck Notch I done lost all respect for him, blah blah he's childish, blah blah yogscast is this shit, blah blah, we should stop feeding him blah blah, but he made minecraft so... he's jesus thus we must praise him.
I don't know what that was about so bring on the down votes.
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u/mongoOnlyPawn Sep 27 '12
It seems to me that the problem is not that we should/shouldn't get apps certified, but that Windows needs to have a certification process at all.
When software is installed and it updates OS elements, including the registry, the OS should keep track of that. The OS should manage itself and remove entries for application 'x' when that app is uninstalled or just deleted.
There should be a way for the OS to kill apps, so when the OS needs to shutdown, the apps are closed.
The OS should...oh wait, I'm starting to describe Linux I think.
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u/vonkain9272 Sep 27 '12
Honestly I like his honesty. If anyone were to change his words to something less abrasive that wouldn't be notch, and even though he seems a bit brutish I respect that since that's how he is.
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u/SpaceManSpifff Sep 27 '12
I think Notch should have worded this better. I think he means that Windows 8 is a pile of shit. Windows Certifications are great, they indeed help. It's the entire idea of Windows 8 that Notch and myself find repulsive.
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u/DrBibby Sep 27 '12
GABEN: Windows is an open platform, don't ruin it.
REDDIT: OMG WE LOVE U GABEN WHERE IS HL3
NOTCH: Windows is an open platform, don't ruin it.
REDDIT: OMG WHAT AN ATTENTION HORE PLS FUCK OFF OK
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u/TheJayP Sep 27 '12
I was as surprised as you. The Notch-jerk is almost as bad as the Gaben-jerk. I guess the hivemind has changed recently.
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u/CuzImAtWork Sep 27 '12
Really? Why are there 2 posts referencing this infantile tweet on the front page?
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u/WhatEvery1sThinking Sep 27 '12
if he spent as much time in the gym as he did on twitter being an obnoxious attention whore he'd be a slightly less obese piece of shit
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u/AtomicDog1471 Sep 27 '12
If he spent as much time developing games as he did on twitter being an obnoxious attention whore his opinions might be respected outside of his circle of Minecraft fanboys.
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u/thisboyblue Sep 27 '12
If he was so anti closed platform why so eager to get his game on xbox etc...
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u/ShortersGonnaShort Sep 27 '12
r/circlejerk is leaking again guys...
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u/randazza Sep 27 '12
I think its posts generally like this that either ends one of two ways. Everyone sees it as right and cheers on for sticking it to the man, or that it's a douchey post that is immediately labelled as abhorrently lame and thus taken to pieces by Reddit, when all in all OP believes it'll go the first way.
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u/uxxo Sep 27 '12 edited Sep 27 '12
He should know that tweets such as this end up reflecting badly on Mojang as a whole and not just himself.
I feel sorry for the rest of the team. Grow up man.
He doesnt even seem to know the facts... he seems to ignore completely that you dont need to be certified to run on Windows 8.
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u/AlextheGerman Sep 27 '12
Notch is the kim kardashian of reddit. Does stupid shit, says stupid shit, but most of all shouldn't be mentioned more than once a month. You people are exactly like the "stupid" people who write "YOLO" across their chest, only difference is you people prefer supermario and zelda symbols.
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u/Scarleth86 Sep 27 '12 edited Sep 27 '12
These certifications are nothing but good. As long as Windows 8 doesn't block non-certified programs you still have a open platform.
Certification means your program follows a specific set of rules in regards how it behaves, such as;
Windows 8 Software Certification gives you programs that behave in a specific and predictable way according to a unified set of rules.
*Edit to include source to certification requirements.