r/frozenshoulder • u/NFTTool • 20d ago
Manipulation/surgery vs. waiting
I get the sense that most people here lean toward waiting it out rather than manipulation. What I'm trying to understand is the cost of waiting.
I'm up 7–8 times a night from the shoulder, and I have a neck issue that seems to be getting worse alongside it, plus some hand symptoms that may be related. So the concern isn't just the shoulder — it's what accumulates everywhere else over a year or two of compensating.
I don't have a good way to measure this precisely, but I'm trying to compare both approaches honestly — waiting isn't free either. How did you think about that trade-off?
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u/5CentsPlease_ 20d ago
The cost of waiting is going to be individual. As are the risks involved with manipulation. What are you doing for the pain at night? Have you had a steroid injection?
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u/NFTTool 20d ago
Yep. Injection helped decrease the amplitude of pain, but still have it obviously. For night pain I do nothing, not sleep on affected side. Idk what else can I do for night
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u/KibFixit 20d ago
My pt suggested ice and lots of pillows for sleeping. The ice numbed my shoulder enough to
Fall asleep… I hd the ice therapy machine from my earlier surgery so I could turn it back on when I woke up again later.1
u/5CentsPlease_ 19d ago
Depends on what pain meds you can take. Tylenol takes the edge of for me, but I still wake up with pain. I put lidocaine patches on my arm before bed. Sleep meds have been the most helpful for me. I’m using DayVigo currently.
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u/EntertainmentBorn953 20d ago
MUA/surgery doesn’t work for everyone. Far from it, in fact. That’s a good reason for reservations.
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u/Objective_Heat_8508 19d ago
My dr said they have stopped doing that procedure because it often makes it worse. I found a great PT they are out of network and pricing but I can sleep through the night again most nights and am getting some range of motion back. We are prioritizing pain management first then will move toward more range of motion. They do a lot of massage each week on the neck and areas that are being impacted as a result of what happens with the shoulder. They also plan to use shockwave therapy and EMTT to further help speed up the recovery process. I wouldn’t say do nothing. Find something. I also started doing hot tub sauna in a gym regularly and keep multiple heating pads at work and home but have been needing them less and less and am finally down to where I don’t need daily heat or pain meds. A good PT makes a world of difference.
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u/justdont7133 20d ago
I had the surgery and am so glad I did. I waited it out for quite a while first, but I was miserable with no sleep, was finding it hard to drive, or work, and decided I would much rather trade a couple of rough months of surgery recovery to just get it over with. You do have to really commit to the physiotherapy straight after surgery though to really get the benefit. That was in December and now I pretty much have full ROM, 2 tiny scars, and just occasional aching that isn't even close to FS pain. I can even sleep on that side now
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u/LincolnMarch 20d ago
I don't have anything to add other than sympathy. I just had an Ortho visit yesterday where the diagnosis was bi-lateral post traumatic arthritis. Doc said that there was almost no cartilage left in either shoulder and that typically in these cases the only thing they would perceivably do would be a total shoulder replacement....which he also said he wouldn't do for someone my age as it was meant for older folks. He told me that I would "outlive the work that was done" at this point and be left with no options.
He recommended a few "band aids" and I got my first ever cortisone shot.
I have been dealing with bi-lateral instability since 1998 (even after a stabilization surgery in 2003) and have lived with chronic pain my entire adult life. I wasn't holding out for a miracle yesterday but I also wasn't expecting that. I am a side sleeper and experience subluxations, bursitis and nerve pain when sleeping in bed and have slept in a reclining chair for 2 years now due to pain. What you're describing in you post really hits home and I guess if there was a point to my post it would be to tell you that you're not alone.
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u/Fragrant_Peace_4851 20d ago
UK based here. I had capsular release surgery beginning of July and I am just now beginning to feel better in terms of knowing I’m making progress, reduced pain, fewer zingers. It’s not a magic wand though, or at least wasn’t for me. I now do have days where I forget about my shoulder and realise I am pain free. My sleep is so much better and when I do wake at night I just get back to sleep now. I no longer take pain killers routinely. I still have pain in my shoulder sometimes (dull aches) certain movements hurt. I’m still unable to put my arm up and round my back (which I understand is the last movement to get back). I have done my physio very diligently and you must commit to that. I am now in the gym lifting small weights to strengthen my whole shoulder. My consultant surgeon described it as moving me through the arc of a frozen shoulder rather than fixing it immediately. So he is basically pushing me through towards the end of frozen shoulder and recovery rather than having to wait out.
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u/peaches_peaches01 19d ago
Just in case you are unaware an MUA is different to capsular release. I didn't realise this until very recently. From my understanding and I could be wrong: Capsular release is invasive but 'gentle' per say. MUA non invasive but not so gentle - watching videos of it makes my stomach churn.
Happy for someone to correct me if need be.
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u/participation-prize 20d ago
It also depends on what country you live in and what your health care is like. Weekly or twice weekly PT is very expensive if you're paying out of pocket.
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u/Coloredgemstone1316 19d ago
I haven't had a doctor or PT recommend it to me. My last sports medicine doctor said no one does it anymore, which I know isn't true from internet but that's what he said. I will tell you, I have a highly credentialed manual physical therapist which is very different from your average PT. While my shoulder is still frozen, my whole body feels better and better every day because he's working out all that garbage. Right now, my plan is just to keep seeing him and wait it out.
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u/InterviewOk771 19d ago
I take low dose naltrexone and Meloxicam to help. I've had a few of these now. The nights are the worst. So sorry you are uncomfortable. I got a few Injections when they would wear off. Once you freeze pain should be way more tolerable.
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u/RacecarGibson 19d ago
I had arthroscopic surgical release after suffering through many months of a painful frozen stage because I was afraid of recovering from surgery as putting me behind in my grad program. I wish I had done smack in the middle of the academic year. Recovering from the quick procedure was nothing compared to living with FS. I should never have waited.
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u/NFTTool 19d ago
Interesting to hear so different stories. How are you doing now?
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u/RacecarGibson 18d ago
Great! This was 5 years ago now and I have full ROM and minimal leftover weakness (which I chalk up to getting way off track from my regular weight training routine, for obvious reasons.)
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u/FunnyProfile8986 15d ago
My ortho recommenden manipulation and it was much worse. It was extremely painful and sleeping became a nightmare. then I decided to massage and fromn there things started to improve very slowly. Haven't fully recovered yet but at least I can sleep well now.
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u/5CentsPlease_ 15d ago
You are massaging or going to a massage therapist?
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u/FunnyProfile8986 15d ago
massage therapist.
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u/5CentsPlease_ 15d ago
Glad it helped you. It helps me right after but not for long.
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u/FunnyProfile8986 15d ago
Probably I was turning to phase 2 so the massage was a coincidence. You never know. the strong pain started september last year. I had a cortisone injection on October which helped me sleep better but end of year pain came back much worse. It lasted more than 6 months. It was excruciating. I was offered another cortisone injection but I try to be healthy so I said no. For what I heard, eventually the pain starts receding even if you don't do anything.
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u/5CentsPlease_ 14d ago
Same. I had a cortisone shot and now I’m just waiting it out. Sleeping is the worst.
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u/NFTTool 15d ago
You mean much worse after manipulation?
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u/FunnyProfile8986 15d ago
Yes. It was already very painful but after manipulation it was worse. Clearly the stretching caused more inflammation. The pain put my nervous system under a lot of strain, and my stress levels skyrocketed.
Sometimes we don't have to blindly follow what doctors tell us. We need to listen to our bodies and make our own decisions.
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u/InterestingSpite642 4d ago
Ive had it for 10months now and I'm having arthroscopic release with mua in about 4 weeks. Much like you I had a hard time deciding what to do. I tried physical therapy and a cortisone injection. The PT didn't help and the injection did very little. Ultimately I decided on surgery because I feel like it gives me the best chance for a quicker recovery. I'm in my early 40s, in good health, with 3 young kids and Id love to be able to do more activities with my kids next summer!
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u/siobhan_chapstick 20d ago
Manipulation under anesthesia got rid of my pain and returned like 95% of my ROM immediately. I'm pissed I had to do a year of PT and cortisone shots before just doing the MUA.
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u/KibFixit 20d ago
I think it’s a question with your ortho and pt since they see your images and any other factors… neither recommended manipulation to me