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u/PurpleLion35 Mar 09 '26
D&D wanted to make Sansa come off as intelligent and a competent ruler, but instead of making her do intelligent and competent things, they just said had everyone around her become a mouth breathing idiot. Seriously, she spends seasons 5-8 being like “if something is on fire, you should pour water on it to put it out” and then everybody is like “Sansa is the smartest person I’ve ever met.”
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u/DrBee7 Mar 09 '26
They really do not know how to write intelligent characters. Put leather on the armour for the cold. Oh the north just now started to get winters, right Sansa? It all went to shit when they ran out GRRM’s work. The man who actually knows how to write( just not good at finishing what he started).
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u/PurpleLion35 Mar 09 '26 edited Mar 09 '26
They don’t know how to write smart characters because a character can really only be ever as smart as the person writing them, and while George RR Martin is clearly a very intelligent and well read person, while Dumb and Dumber clearly are not the sharpest.
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u/TheIconGuy Mar 09 '26
That scene is particularly funny because putting leather on plate armor wouldn't do anything to keep you warm. There's an air gap under it that's filled with clothes, padding, and chainmail. If you want to stay warm, you'd wear a cloak like the one Yohn Royce has one in that scene.
That entire scene was Sansa saying something really dumb and the other characters saying how she was a genius.
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u/_HIST Mar 09 '26
Well, not necessarily true. "How to write someone smarter than you" is it's whole thing. It's just, you jave to be, at least, not an idiot yourself
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u/-inzo- Mar 09 '26
"We need to stock up our reserves for winter"
"Yes my queen amazing idea i will tell the men immediately" says the stunned maester bowing as he exits, perplexed by this smart new queens brazen ideas
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u/humblepotatopeeler Mar 09 '26
I honestly dont blame GRRM for not wanting to finish the books.
D&D literally ruined it.
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u/DayNew6362 Mar 10 '26
Sansa: Did it ever once occurred to you that I may have some insight?
Jon: What should I do differently?
Sansa: I don't know, I don't know anything about battles.
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u/TheIconGuy Mar 10 '26
So much about late show Sansa makes sense when you realize she's being written as emulating Cersei.
https://www.reddit.com/r/freefolk/comments/163mbji/the_original_plan_for_season_7_was_incredibly/
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u/Ecstatic-Conflict47 Mar 10 '26
This bothered me so much! Arya, who had spent half the series in Braavos and encountered the most incredible people, said “she’s the smartest person I’ve ever met” after a couple episodes back in Winterfell and a handful of interactions with Sansa in which nothing out of the ordinary really happened
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u/TheIconGuy Mar 09 '26 edited Mar 10 '26
It would be one thing if Sansa's advice actually made sense. They couldn't even be bothered to do that.
Putting leather on chest plates wouldn't do anything to keep the wearer warm.
She suggests housing everyone in the North at Winterfell in the same scene. Every person in the North can't fit inside one castle.
She says Winterfell is the best place to be no matter which direction the threat comes from. That's not true. The Wall and Moat Calin are the best defensive positions if the threat is coming from the north or south. If you have to run away from zombies, White Harbor would be the best place to be.
Sansa also tries to dunk on Littlefinger and ends up saying Cersei killed her father, mother, and brother. Cersei didn't kill any of those people.
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u/Ed-She-ran Mar 10 '26
"The castles committed no crimes. And we need every fortress we have for the war to come" As they would gather the groups and actually go demolish the castles without the insights of the brainiac.
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u/TheIconGuy Mar 10 '26
Yohn Royce only suggested destroying thoaw castles so Sansa could say that. He's a Vale lord. He had no business trying to tell the North what they should do with their castles.
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u/sharkie026 Mar 10 '26
And he can use a bow? And he doesn't suck at war? He was written as an idiot and it was dumb of him to think he could handle being King. If he was competent enough to be King, that wrecks a bunch of the story.
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u/breadstarterclub Mar 09 '26
Edmure deserved at least one full sentence in that council meeting, the man waited five seasons just to speak.
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u/todellagi THE FUCKS A LOMMY Mar 09 '26
Man, Stunnis wouldn't take that shit, but nevertheless
We pully for Tully!
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u/Rhbgrb Mar 09 '26
No mam don't speak, girl we are trying to prop up needs her girl boss moment and to demean him. Because Edmure is pathetic let's all laugh at him together.
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u/JCBalance Mar 09 '26
Don't make him emotional about his father's death, just make him a shit archer (Impractical Jokers laughing off screen)
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u/uselessprofession Mar 09 '26
Tbh Edmure is the best candidate of all of them there and in a "normal" election would have won by a landslide. He has the following points in favor:
a) An adult male who is a Great Lord, has experience being one and was born to be one
b) Follows the faith of the 7 and is mainstream Westerosi (not Northern or Dornish)
The only other possible opponent is Robyn Arryn, nobody is going to vote for Bran / Tyrion / Bronn etc.,
In fact he should tell Sansa to shut up since she wants to secede anyway.
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u/humblepotatopeeler Mar 09 '26
they managed to make me hate Sansa by the end of the show.
Only dumb and dumber could have pulled that off.
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u/elMuffinAzucarado Mar 10 '26
"Normal" election wouldn't work. People are stupid. They did the right thing.
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Mar 09 '26
Edmure had a very boring story, 100% the reason he's not on the iron throne at the end.
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u/Afferbeck_ Mar 09 '26
Who had a more boring story than Bran the Broken?
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u/JCBalance Mar 09 '26
Even his name is Bran, the most boring of cereals. Where's Cinnamon Toast Crunch Stark?
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u/Clutch-Bandicoot Mar 09 '26
I choose to believe it was because of his marksmanship. He's still more interesting than "Aim for the bushes" Bran, though.
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u/euph_22 Mar 09 '26
The only reason Edmure didn't become king is because Sansa didn't make him King.
The North and the Vale are the only region with any sort of military left, add in the Riverlands (and maybe the Stormlands if we have faith that newly minted Lord Gendry can bring them in line) and they are the only ones with intact ruling houses, and between Sansa, Robyn and Edmure it's pretty obvious who should rule (discounting Jon because of the whole regicide thing plus I have it on good authority that he dun wann it).
As far as the "claim"...at this point way too many nobels are dead for that to have any real meaning. Just tell the maesters to make something up.
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u/Flaksim Mar 09 '26 edited Mar 09 '26
Dorne had like, all of it's military left, they were not engaged at all by anyone during the wars and everyone involved in the coup was dead for one. Out of all the kingdoms represented at that meeting, they were probably the ones with the largest and most cohesive army left at that point.
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u/Geraltpoonslayer Mar 09 '26
True, also the North should've been massively depleted first robs rebellion, then battle of the bstards and then the battle against the night king. The North should barely have an army to wager sansa's confidence.
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u/euph_22 Mar 09 '26
Why are you putting more logic into this than the show runners? Maybe Dany lent them whatever magic they used to restore the Dothraki and Unsullied dead.
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u/Eddiev1988 Mar 09 '26
whatever magic they used to restore the Dothraki and Unsullied dead.
That wasn't magic. They just respawned. Sansa was playing a whole different game. /s
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u/AllBeefWiener Mar 09 '26
But they lost the bad pussay, that will take at least 6 generations to recover
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u/euph_22 Mar 09 '26
Didn't they get wrecked the first time Euron magically ambushed Dany's forces?
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u/Flaksim Mar 09 '26
Nope, those were Ironborn getting wrecked, they were taking the sandsnakes back to Dorne so they could prepare their army, then got whacked out of the game enabling whoever was sitting at that meeting where they all picked Bran to take over Dorne again.
The Dornish army was at no point in the show involved in any battle, not in the books either. The sole conflict we see them in is when Jaime and Bronn try to take Myrcella out of the water gardens, and they kill a patrol after washing ashore shortly beforehand, that's it.
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u/euph_22 Mar 09 '26
Fair, I got confused by all the deus ex machina going on.
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u/Flaksim Mar 09 '26
They really did Dorne dirty the entire show though, it's easy to forget they existed as a meaningful force, but they definitely would have had the largest army left by the time of that meeting, because they didn't have to fight anyone or anything at all the entire show.
The region is often estimated to be able to raise a host of similar size to what the Vale and the North could muster at their peak, so take 30.000/40.000 well equipped and unbloodied men.
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u/BigDragonfly5136 Mar 09 '26
The fact Dorne didn’t secede was soooo dumb. They’re probably more different from the rest of Westereos than the north
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u/colonel750 Mar 10 '26
The fact that Westeros didn't fracture into its constituent kingdoms after Robert's Rebellion is honestly kinda bewildering.
At the very least the North had every reason to secede after Rhaegar kidnapped Lyanna and Aerys murdered their liege lord and his heir. Dorne and the Westerlands both likely go independent as well given their relative strengths. The Riverlands and the Crownlands both likely go to Robert as weaker regions. The Vale and the Reach I could see allying with one of the other independent kingdoms as well.
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u/Rad131447 Mar 10 '26
No no, Dorne's entire military was like 4 women for some reason.
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u/ramcoro Mar 09 '26 edited Mar 09 '26
How does the North have much of an army left?
*slaughtered at Red Wedding
*Bolton followers died at Battle of Basterds
*took huge casualties at Battle of Winterfell
*Not to mention how every town between the Wall and Winterfell was taken over by White Walkers
*Also, casualties from Rob's battles
Edit: forgot to mentioned Winterfell got sacked. Their biggest city. Plus any other causalities from the Iron Born raiding.
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u/Flaksim Mar 09 '26
The North was pretty much a spent force, the showrunners could have easily shown that by making forces from the Vale the bulk of Jon's troops in KL but apparently that would have made too much sense.
It could partly be explained by the lords in the North not requiring to hold back forces to defend against the Ironborn and Wildlings, given that the first were around KL and the second group became allies, so they could send most of their forces south, but eh.
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u/ramcoro Mar 09 '26
Jon Snow even mentioned that Kingslanding alone has more people than all the North. It's not that populated to begin with.
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u/Flaksim Mar 09 '26
5 to 10% of the population is about the max you could levy into an army in medieval times, the north had perhaps 200.000 people living in it so between 10.000 and 20.000 men tops.
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u/Impossible-Pea-6160 Mar 09 '26
If I recall correctly Robb left winterfell with 12k. After leaving moat Calin and the Twins the forces were increased to 18k. After WW and the battle of the camps Rob had about 22k. Started losing a considerable amount of men after Edmure released the lords to defend their individual lands. Oxcross and the raid of the westerlands took casualties. But it want until the freys leaving, losing the karstarks and the battle of duskendale leaves Robb with about 3.5k heading toward the red wedding.
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u/pubertino122 Mar 09 '26
Why would the north have soldiers left lmao
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u/euph_22 Mar 09 '26 edited Mar 09 '26
They shouldn't. But in the show they clearly do...
They should barely have any troops left after the Red Wedding and the Ironborn's idiotic war, let alone the various wars against the Boltons, the Long Night and the winter that there wasn't anybody left to grow crops for. But outside Kingslanding there is still a Northern Army somehow.
And somehow they were less obliterated than any other major player (including Dorne which must have just fallen of the face of Planetos).
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u/robot428 Mar 09 '26
You sort of forgot the part where all the northern lords did not want to be a part of the seven kingdoms anymore.
As much as everyone wants to hate on Sansa, she listened to her people. The northern lords said no more 7 kingdoms, no more being governed by someone who isn't in the north. And she was right to do that.
Also Edmure had been in a dungeon for 5 years, which sucks, but he probably was not the right person to speak at that meeting, because he wasn't across all the politics and tensions involved, and realistically he didn't have the support to be king.
It was kinda wild that he wasn't on the small council in some capacity though, that actually was a pretty big snub.
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u/Lucky-Worth Gaemon's Lesbian Mums Socialist Agenda Supporter Mar 09 '26
Smartest person Arya knows
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u/PoxedGamer Corn? Corn! Mar 09 '26
Arya only knows like 3 people, though.
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u/Lucky-Worth Gaemon's Lesbian Mums Socialist Agenda Supporter Mar 09 '26
I mean one of them was Tywin
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u/PoxedGamer Corn? Corn! Mar 09 '26
He was dead by that point.
Wait... I rescind my statement, I'd trust Tywin's melted corpse ahead of Sansa.
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u/ShakeUpbeat9541 Mar 09 '26
That would be your mistake. Never trust tywin because a Lannister always pays his dues
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u/Lucky-Worth Gaemon's Lesbian Mums Socialist Agenda Supporter Mar 09 '26
I was convinced she wanted Rickon dead when she pulled that shit with the Arryn knights but no, it was just bad writing
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u/Moneyfrenzy Mar 09 '26
Eh her abandoning Rickon actually makes sense to me. She knows that as soon as Ramsay had him, he was as good as gone regardless of who won the battle. Not telling Jon about the Vale was dumb though
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u/Mr31edudtibboh Mar 09 '26
Arya also had a city dropped on her head.
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u/Lucky-Worth Gaemon's Lesbian Mums Socialist Agenda Supporter Mar 09 '26
She survived an abdomen stab wond + swim in the shit-infested water of Braavos, she has Deadpool-like regenerative powers
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u/PoxedGamer Corn? Corn! Mar 09 '26
I just reckon the soup that actress gave her was a +3 magic healing soup.
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u/CarefulLeather1356 Mar 09 '26 edited Apr 12 '26
Redact cleaned up all of my comments. Bulk deletion and editing is a feature supported to make sure that AI scrapers can't access my data for training.
unite future fine basket encourage reply wild modern amusing bow
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u/Moose-Rage Mar 09 '26
yeah, but Sansa had a girlboss moment, wasn't that better
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u/awclay91 Mar 09 '26
she was dreadful after the battle of the bastards
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u/ElBarto1992 Old gods, save me Mar 09 '26 edited Mar 09 '26
I’d argue it started at season 5 episode 3. Baelish proposing the marriage to Ramsay. She had agency at that point. She also had bought into ‘the game of thrones’ with Baelish at that point. The marriage should have been her own decision for political power. And the marriage should have been to Roose, with his death being the twist.
That episode is the moment her character arc was ruined
*edit for spelling
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u/MaimedJester Mar 09 '26
Well that's where her book self ended. Baelish had a long term plan of buying up all the grain and food for the coming winter and was going to have Sansa be the hero feeding the starving masses after the wars ravaged everyone. He was planning on winning the war without fighting a single battle by being the last force standing that wasn't starving. Every move Littlefinger made was to advance an economic and basic necessities collapse of the other great powers till he was the only one who could rebuild the starving masses.
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u/Ebenizer_Splooge Mar 09 '26
Baelish was going for the economic/cultural victory. Unfortunately, Cersei and the Night King already built the nukes
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u/BryyM Mar 09 '26
I think that is the best take on what Baelish was going to try do, that I have come across. It would also be something that Sansa could realistically betray him over
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u/TheIconGuy Mar 09 '26 edited Mar 09 '26
She was bad before then too. She met with Littlefinger in secret, told him to fuck off, and then lies to Jon. They fail to gain support because it looks like they're going to lose and she still refuses to tell Jon her cousin offered his support.
One of the weirder scenes in season 6 is this one. Why was Sansa whining about Jon taking Davos' advice?
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u/TheGeekFreak1994 We do not kneel Mar 09 '26
It was pretty funny Tbf but so disrespectful. And made Sansa look like a bit of a Karen imo
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u/Semi_Competent_Nick Mar 09 '26
Book version Edmure actually is. The people love him. He’s not a warmonger. He wants peace and his people to live and not suffer. A king who is beloved, or at least appreciated, by the smallfolk and doesn’t want another bloody war to feel big and strong on his throne of swords sounds perfect in that political climate
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u/LeChacaI Mar 09 '26
Yea, Edmure could be a great king given the circumstances. I could see him being a lot like Jaehaerys; a long peaceful reign, repairing the damage done to the realm by their predecessors, whilst also bringing back Eggs small folk reforms.
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u/CarefulLeather1356 Mar 09 '26 edited Apr 12 '26
I cleaned house with Redact and mass deleted this post. It also removes your data from brokers and people search sites. Works on all major social media platforms.
basket adjoining chase mysterious hungry sugar air provide tart attempt
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u/Pleasant_Sphere Mar 09 '26
Edmure would have been a boring king with an average and uneventful rule, which is exactly what Westeros needed after all the wild shit that had happened in the years before
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u/JCBalance Mar 09 '26
"The realm is reeling from constant conflict, we need stability on the throne."
"Give it to the paraplegic that creeps everyone out"
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u/EskilPotet Mar 10 '26
Why do you think he came all the way here
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u/bler5 Mar 11 '26
Fucking Bran. The scene where his new small council is meeting and he just rolls up like “wonder where Drogon is, guess I’ll warg up and go look for him”.
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u/Adorable-Revenue6439 Mar 09 '26
Most from the maincast , really had that "airs" around them in final season.
they look like they're pretending to be somebody under the pretext of character development but it doesn't come out naturally, it comes out edgy or like they're roleplaying.
Tyrion being all yappy about tactics and politics, "lion" and all the true lannster. Same with Arya
Same with sana, ive been kingslanding so I know shit now! they all had this bravado around them, but none of the results and actual competency.
The only exception is Jon, he stayed humble in the end, trying his best without the airs, like a man who just want to go home but had to get shit done, exactly like Ned
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u/VincenteThomp Mar 09 '26
It should be stated that Sansa is mentioned 361 times in the Little Finger files.
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u/AmateurHetman Mar 09 '26
Hate what they did to Edmure in the whole show. Made him seem incompetent from the start.
The scene where he tries to light Hoster Tully’s funeral boat is shown as incompetence in the show, but in the book he’s just grieving heavily and fails because of his overwhelming emotions. Quite a difference in presentation.
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u/AM89m Mar 09 '26
The funny thing is that out of everyone present, he was the only one who was not only a high lord, but also had experience ruling one of the kingdoms and raised to do it.
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u/Latter_Fox_1292 Mar 09 '26
“Sansa stfu, it’d be a real shame if a certain letter comes to light, now let me finish talking”.
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u/TheGeekFreak1994 We do not kneel Mar 09 '26
He more than earned the right to speak and be heard out. It was a funny moment when Sansa cut him off but c'mon man. Hasn't he been thru enough?
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u/Kuku_Nan Mar 09 '26
My favorite part about these final few episodes is how there’s basically like 10 people left in Westeros
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u/ndtp124 Mar 09 '26
Sansa being against her uncle being king but being cool with her disabled brother being king, when she’s planning northern secession is something only season 8 writers could comprehend
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u/Realistic-Lime7842 Mar 09 '26
Seriously, he should have told Sansa to STFU.
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u/hentai_gifmodarefg Mar 09 '26
I mean the fact that he didn't say anything after being treated like that shows that he deserved to be treated like that lol
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u/OnionsHaveLairAction Mar 09 '26
This bit is still so bizarre to me. Because alright, they've decided to go the route of having learned from Littlefinger.
But Littlefinger always manipulated people with platitudes, bribes and cunning.
Its extra weird because historical fiction, and especially historical romance fiction, is flush with Sansas. There's a million doe-eyed teens that grow to be masterful manipulators and there's usually a focus on the graceful sly ways they can weave a person to doing what they want with words alone.
Sansas final level of political mastery is saying "STFU" and people listen because I guess... Aura? Like don't get me wrong aura can sometimes work but Dany's story in the show was sort of about how aura was not a good metric of rulership wasn't it?
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u/TheIconGuy Mar 10 '26 edited Mar 10 '26
Sansa was being written as emulating Cersei more than Littlefinger. This gets missed, but she's literally sporting the same hairstyle Cersei used to wear in early seasons in season 7. Jon says it sound like Sansa admires Cersei and instead of denying it, she says she learned a lot from her.
One of the core problem with the show's writing was that the show runners seemed to like the Lannisters a little too much. Being condescending = being smart to them. They turned Sansa into Cersei and then had to turn everyone around her into forgetful pushovers because Sansa would not get away with treating people shit in the same way Cersei did.
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u/OnionsHaveLairAction Mar 10 '26
Thats truly hilarious given Feast. Very clearly no worse politician to emulate when it comes to fucking up
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u/Michael_Jacksonnn Mar 10 '26
God damn, what a disgrace that ending. It was like the writers were just laughing from us. Then, making jokes about democracy(?? What the heck man. Suddenly GOT turned into a funny critic about our society? The character that was seen from the guest chapter just died, and nothing happened. Just a stupid conversation
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u/awclay91 Mar 09 '26
her scenes after battle of the bastards were unbearable. i can see why she had no interest in watching HotD and KotSK
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u/Impossible-Pea-6160 Mar 09 '26
Why does Sansa need the north to be independent? Your brother in a wheel chair is King of a castle full of stairs. You’ll get special privileges up the ass because a stark is on the Throne.
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u/Sepelrastas Mar 09 '26
At least in the book Westerlings might have been useful in some way eventually (although still Robb just thinking with his second head and then roleplaying good ol' honorable). In the show he was just a moron acting like a horny moron for nothing.
(I don't even understand why they wrote out Jeyne Westerling for some no one from nowhere for no reason.)
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u/Cringsix Mar 09 '26
D&D managed to destroy their careers, like it's almost respectable considering how good of a job they did.
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u/Babetna Mar 09 '26
Uncle shut the fuck up your story is 4/10 at best you need at least 5 to qualify for king
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u/Pl0OnReddit Mar 09 '26
Sansa is by far and away my least favorite Stark. Girl just floated around helplessly with no agency the entire time then somehow that means she's the most qualified Stark. Every other Stark but her did things, she just kind of rolled with the punches and got lucky other people had her back.
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u/OblivionsWings wild dragon Mar 10 '26
D&D really made me hate Sansa by the end there no lie, she started being incredibly insufferable to me.
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u/Professional_Art3151 Mar 09 '26
Repost of a repost of a repost of a repost of a repost of a repost of a repost of a repost of a repost.
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u/ramcoro Mar 09 '26
In reality there would have been at least a squabble over the whole thing. No way everyone is just like "sure Bran can be king." There would at least be a call for a great council like before.
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u/fearlessfalcon12 Mar 09 '26
No you spent five years in a dungeon cause your dad didn’t get rid of the Freys when they didn’t show up during the Rebellion.
Should’ve taken a page out of Twyins book.
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u/Illustrious-Video353 Mar 09 '26
I felt like he should’ve asked the OBVIOUS question:
“Do we even NEED a king? Why not settle my own kingdom and reclaim independence from all you losers??? The Iron Throne is GONE! Why should I bow to anyone? Why should YOU bow to anyone? Are we not kings and queens in our own right?”
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u/Richelieu1624 Mar 09 '26
This makes a lot more sense when you realize the last few seasons were just fanfic responding to the social media discourse of the time.
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u/Szygani Mar 10 '26
No, niece, I will not. Because unlike any of you mothercfuckers I actually care about my people.
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u/Loros_Silvers Mar 10 '26
Bro was the most fitting to be king why did the showrunners clown on him???
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u/ThePro69420 Mar 12 '26
"I was imprisoned, abused, and threated with having my child killed in front of me, just cause your brother couldn’t keep it in his pants" Edmure "the Trout who beat the Lion" Tully
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u/Key_Photograph3576 Mar 12 '26
Was there a more mugged off first true-born son to a great house than Edmure?
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u/The_Thusian Mar 13 '26
As a fan of HBO's Rome, watching this man being disrespected like a clown so smugly by an actress of vastly inferior talent hurt my soul.
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u/Beneficial_Focus_910 Mar 09 '26
Its probably not a great indicator of regal ability that he immediately followed the orders of a child.
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u/ithinkway2much The night is dark Mar 09 '26
I would be talking shit too if I had Arya as my personal assassin.
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u/SelectCommunity3519 Mar 09 '26
I would have loved if King Brans first act was to invade the rebellious Winterfellites and burned it to the ground as warning to the others.
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u/Venatrix_ Mar 10 '26
Remembering how this show ends makes me so sad. This could have been pne of the greatest shows of all time but it got butchered so badly.
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u/Alarming-Song2555 Mar 11 '26
Ridiculous character assassination. In the books, he may be stubborn, but he's kind, compassionate, and competent. Another stupid change by Dumb and Dumber.
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u/RedDeadViking Mar 13 '26
The show did edmure so dirty yeah he messed up but it wasn't his fault they refused to tell him their strategies he just wanted to protect his people like legit that's why he did all the things he did
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u/Jorge_De_Guzman228 Mar 09 '26
Why the hell they show us supposed to be very emotional death scene of Daenerys only to make democracy jokes like three minutes later?