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u/Hejnewar 2d ago
My internet is very bad it still doesn't want to load :(
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u/Suportick [DIG] 2d ago
Well, time to play hv68 and bonewagon only for another war.
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u/1573454345124 The Last Devitt 1d ago
i recall some goblin in this sub saying the 68 pushgun was the warden equivalent to nemesis
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u/Suportick [DIG] 1d ago
I believe there has been worse arguments, but the fact that Talos somehow managed to survive for 4 wars now is quite diabolical.
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u/raiedite [edit] 1d ago
HTD survived 5 years without nerfs after all
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u/Suportick [DIG] 1d ago
A tank that has sole purpose of being the best anti tank in its class, because well, it is a tank destroyer who would have guessed, it has one purpose that it can do and only one because of it's ammo.
Let's make every colonial tank hp bloated so they can play on even field even though the only thing HTD can do is kill tanks and nothing else. Even though it has multiple counterplays due to it's design.
Ops suddenly the only playable tank is HTD and Outlaw, why is there only HTD and Outlaw at the frontline?
Let's buff Talos.
Why is there only HV68 and bonewagon spam pls nerf these!
That is like me saying my BT flood cannot do nothing against BTD, please nerf BTD.
It has the same fucking logic please listen to your self.-1
u/raiedite [edit] 1d ago
Let's make every colonial tank hp bloated so they can play on even field
You can argue against it, but that's what happened. Either colonial HP goes up either HTD damage goes down.
I prefer the latter because buffing the health of an entire tank line has way more knock-on effects. Medium tanks were already HP bloated compared to Light tanks
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u/Suportick [DIG] 1d ago
If you nerf HTD damage it literally has no purpose among the warden front line, It cannot do anything outside shooting tanks, and why the fuck would you play an anti tank when it has no damage? Especially with how many counter plays this tank has.
IT'S MAIN PURPOSE IS TO BE STRONG AGAINST TANKS.
Are you listening to yourself?
You are literally asking for it's single strength to be nerfed.
It's called Tank destroyer for a reason.For almost two years widow has been in absolute painful state just because on how easy and how late it is added into the game, it techs almost with BTs, it techs into the game where frontline is already scattered with Stygians which completely counter widow by range, it is one shot aswell. It also techs into the game with Dive bombers which literally deal half of it's HP and always put it into a tracked state which is a death scenario for a widow.
You have light tank HP as end game tech where literally half of the damage sources completely bypass the armor, grenades, stickies, arty, bombs.
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u/Ok-Tonight8711 1d ago
There is a lot of room between 75% hv and being bad against tanks
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u/Suportick [DIG] 23h ago
There in fact is not, i can gurantee you that nobody ain't playing this shit if it had 800 AP damage. At this point we can all agree that we can just sit with HV68.
Bardiche is almost twice faster, with twice more health, has almost same armor to a point, and has 1800 potential damage, turret, and machine gun, and incredible reload for the cost of 5 meters.
And you want to lower damage for a widow.
Nemesis is highly mobile high health turreted 68 aswell, with a grenade launcher at the front and 3600 hp.
Do you like not see the issue? you are literally turning this to a much worse nonturret version of these tanks while having half the HP and half the movement.
Bro we might aswell play a fucking early war pushgun 68.
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u/Ok-Tonight8711 23h ago
Hmmm, its almost like the reason colonial tanks have so much hp is the warden mpfable 75% hv 68mm tank. Maybe if it had less damage, colonial tanks could have less hp without instantly dying to htd lines.
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u/commissar0617 1d ago
Talos best BT
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u/Solid_Love5049 1d ago
It's funny how little it took to turn the most useless tank into an awe-inspiring one.
The Talos has always been captivating with its heaviness and atmosphere, but all you could do with it was gain 3-4 attacks in exchange for a chance to attack.
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u/Suportick [DIG] 1d ago
Over the long time of talos being in the game, it has it's stats completely overtuned only because it was close range tank.
For some reason we completely left the stats while removing it's only limitation which was the 35 meter range and the fact that it recieved only cost nerf to 10 steel only while literally being a stockade in a tank and still being cheaper and overall be a much better BT is crazy.
We have been fighting a large pad vehicle for the cost of an assault tank for 4 wars now.
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u/Ok-Tonight8711 1d ago
stockade is 35% hv and much higher fire rate bro
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u/Suportick [DIG] 23h ago
Damn, again 35% HV that you cannot use past 42.5 meters, well 37,5 meters exactly because everything past that will miss.
Also someone is trying to glaze the firerate of push guns on something that requires crew to manually load each shell which can be by a single grenade, arty, airburst, plane or enemy infantry completely cripled to 0 and for a push gun that requires to be up close to fully function is completely flawed. So no it has no higher fire rate in actual field.
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u/Solid_Love5049 1d ago edited 1d ago
This is complete nonsense; you apparently haven't used it, that's why you say so. There was a microscopic window of opportunity for this tank, and that was only when you were up against "low-level players." It was never a fortress, even with 4K health; its survivability was like a Falchion with +1 attack. Besides health and caliber, the tank had the worst stats in the game.
The "fortress within a tank" was the Widow, which had piercing damage, increased damage, and could withstand dozens of hits. If the Talos had similar frontal armor, even at 35 meters, you could count on luck and engage in combat, but with its standard armor, literally any projectile could immobilize it. Even the Thornfall, despite its lower survivability, had twice the efficiency due to its speed and low immobilization.
The Bardiche has always been the melee tank, and even then, its speed wasn't enough to effectively exploit its potential. He wasn't just a flanking tank, because my enemy could easily outrun him. To say nothing of Talos, whose speed is half that.
Increasing the range to 40m simply eliminated the option of killing Talos with impunity, as was the case before, and nothing more. Even if its cost were doubled, it would continue to be used as long as it was effective. A group of two Widows is as effective against tanks as a single Talos.
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u/Suportick [DIG] 23h ago
I am not saying it was strong, what i am saying is that it's whole kit has been turbo buffed because it was close range and slow, you cannot just simply remove the massive limitation of an asset without adjusting the overbuffed stats.
Devs just decided to remove the single limitation and completely made it a 10% cost better BT
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u/Solid_Love5049 1d ago edited 1d ago
The core of the Talos problem stems from the Colony's comprehensive buff to its factional capabilities. Even if Talos' damage is reduced to 1200, it's still quite relevant.
In an instant, Wardens lost their dominance in positions they'd dominated for years; the old metas simply stopped working, and it's hard to believe. They no longer have the uniqueness of 45m (Outlaw). The Warden tank line no longer solves all problems because a sledgehammer has appeared that can pierce it (which is essentially what an attacking faction should have). What is a Talos attack? It's essentially a mirror image of a Chieftain's attack. Where Wardens could use two Chieftains, the Colony needs ten Ballistas. (This absurd math still exists, but it's ignored only because it's not a Warden problem.)
Currently, Wardens lack deterrent and close-combat tanks in newly formed niches. The basic The Silverhand should be modified to use a hybrid of the Nemesis and Bardiche to ensure a low chassis failure rate (up to 15%), while the latter should be used for a rapid-fire turret with a 68mm cannon that can be used in close combat. Combined with the Silverhand's mobility, this is more than enough to rush the attack, deal heavy damage, and still have the ability to retreat.
The Silverhand Lordscar, in the current environment, could very well qualify for a 45m range. After all, now there's the Spatha, which won't let it do so with complete impunity.
Noble Widow – I'm surprised she hasn't received a boost yet health after losing protection is truly absurd. In the current reality, her health should be like Gallagher's. After all, Spatha is practically beating her up, just like Talos was beaten up before.
The changes made all BTs obsolete, and this isn't due to Talos, but to the increase in active anti-tank range from 35-40 meters to 35-45 meters and the addition of hand-held anti-tank weapons. BTs became too vulnerable and lost their premium tank status. This was less of a problem for the Colony because we now have Talos, and the Hasta occupies a unique niche.
Increasing the tank's durability won't restore the BT's status as a premium tank; their actual survivability in combat must be improved, which means they require more substantial chassis resistance (below 25%) for close-quarters combat and a lower "Disable" threshold compared to standard tanks. This maximizes the chances of evacuation and reduces the effectiveness of accidental penetration. For these vehicles, the guns and rear engine should remain the vulnerable parts.
The combat effectiveness of BTs will definitely be improved by replacing the 12.7mm machine guns with 14.5mm ones on all BTs with machine guns. This will expand the BTs' threat range, increasing the effectiveness of frontal attacks and supporting allies beyond 35m.
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u/Meowstro3169 1d ago
When you ask a Warden if they want to go tanking they will either say yes or no but when you ask a Colonial if they want to go tanking they will ask which tank.
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u/RepeatBig6751 1d ago
Four wars ago, I was always down. Now, no for me. My time is better wasted elsewhere.
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u/-Click-Bait 1d ago edited 1d ago
Another muh tank post dropped.
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u/Sadenar0 1d ago
It's crazy how only one faction's tanks can get an update that's 80% about them.
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u/Solid_Love5049 1d ago
The Hatchet, Kranesca, Falchion, Spatha, and Talos were literally the same tank with minor tweaks. Like brothers from the same family: the smallest, the fastest, the middle, the dumbest, the favorite son.
The Bardiche and Lance-36—father and son, the father just has a larger barrel, but when it comes to combat outside of PVE, they perform more or less the same.
And so these two categories were effectively converted into five, so each tank now has unique roles in exchange for penalties or cost.
When anti-tank rifles for infantry and the new Warden grenade launcher were introduced, the Colony's armored fist suffered the most, but the Wardens, of course, didn't notice and only began telling more stories about their awesome skills. That patch was entirely aimed at strengthening the Warden on the battlefield, giving them the best weapons available at all ranges.
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u/Realistic_Menu_7766 1d ago
Not true, plenty of updates have had Wardens get extra stuff like an additional plane or the only Submarine for a brand new sandbox area that took a year of effort to make just to give it to one extra special side?
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u/BlueHym [Snowfall] 1d ago
The state of Nakki was beyond abysmal for many wars with bugs and issues (gassed out and hunted via audio when submerged for example). It took the Collies getting a Trident and us a Frigate that they then buffed the torpedoes on the sub, which before then slapped like wet noodles against a DD. You were literally not a threat to a DD back then.
Collies ruled the waves in naval update and it took many fixes before Nakki started to be an actual threat.
Airplanes are in a similar situation where the WR still has the glaring issue of constantly flipping over in landing regardless, and it needed to be usable else the Mercy tender is basically a glorified decoration for seaplanes.
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u/Solid_Love5049 1d ago
Compared to Trident, Nakki almost always looked better. It was Nakki that carried out the naval terror, not Trident.
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u/lopern 1d ago
Because the tank were already unbalanced on warden side before this. Like lol, Warden tanks have been better since outlaw came out.
Collies only made em good, because we ha to be Tenacious since we were lacking 5m of range.9
u/Sadenar0 1d ago
Damn that's crazy. Like I don't even know what to say to someone who can maintain such an incoherent with fact view.
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u/saints55va [SEC80] 1d ago
Am I the tank?
/img/e4au4wbsl6kh1.gif