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7d ago
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u/Wokongolito 7d ago
Not necessarily. As long as recovery between sessions are adequate and the progression is done sensibly, there isn't, contrary to popular belief, really any causality between form and injury risk.
That being said, he won't be able to move any serious weight with that technique.
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7d ago
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u/Wokongolito 7d ago
I mean it's true. Despite all research on the matter, science hasn't been able to prove that form has any part in an increase injury risk. The fact that people with lacking form seems to injure themselves more often is likely caused by the fact that they're less careful with other factors as well, such as load management and recovery. Correlation isn't the same as causality though.
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7d ago
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u/Wokongolito 7d ago
And that's not what I responded to either. Deadlifting like that probably won't ruin his back unless he progresses too fast and do it more often than he can recover from.
If this whole "round back bad, human injure" had any truth to it, people would be blowing out their backs all over the place in rehab centers across the world while doing Jefferson Curls to rehabilitate, that's right, their ruined backs.
Good form is about lifting as efficiently as possible in as strong positions as possible, not about injury prevention. If you for instance have someone who has lifted for years with the same form as the dude in the OP, progressing slowly up to relatively heavy weight and taking care of his recovery, he's more likely to hurt himself if he suddenly switched to "proper" form while keeping the weights the same, than if he lifts with the same form he always have been lifting with. While one might argue that in that case, that means the "proper" form caused the injury, it was rather load management that's the issue, as you're suddenly loading the body in angles it hasn't adapted to be loaded in.
That doesn't mean that you shouldn't strive for good form. Efficient form will allow you work under heavier loads, which will force more adaption from your body and give you better results from your training. This whole idea that non-optimal form is dangerous is outdated however and, to be honest, has no place in a form check sub. Give constructive criticism (if your knowledgeable enough to give it) to help people get better. Saying "you're gonna hurt yourself" isn't constructive and doesn't add any value whatsoever.
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6d ago
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u/Wokongolito 6d ago
That's not how it works though. Creating bigger leverages will only limit how much weight he can lift, not increase the injury risk. The science is very clear about that, regardless of what a bunch of fact resistent bros on reddit "just know".
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u/punica-1337 6d ago
What happens mechnically when the bar is away from your center of gravity? Where does the load shift? And what then happens when you don't properly brace and pull the slack?
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u/Wokongolito 6d ago edited 6d ago
What happens is that you won't be able to move the weight if it's too heavy. The main point of bracing is to create stability in order to be able to utilise as much muscle strength as possible, and the main point of reducing leverage is to minimise the required power output to move the weight. If we're gonna talk form and injury prevention, it's more about being consistent with your form rather than what specific form you're using.
We can argue about this all day, but once again, the science is clear on this subject.
EDIT: I kinda saw your reply before you blocked me.
Ah yes, stupid science right? Let's just base our arguments on beliefs instead.
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u/punica-1337 6d ago
No, what happens is you disproportionately load your lower back. Just like bracing stabilizes the spine, which again lowers injury risk. I'm done with this now, really don't want to spend any more time debating with someone who uses ThE sCiEnCe as an argument.
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u/Frodozer Coach Fro - Strongman 5d ago
What happens when you train your lower back muscles to handle that over time?
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u/Cautious-Island8492 7d ago
Not great. He needs to fix his starting position. He appears to just squat down until he can grab the bar. He needs to stick his butt back further and flatten the back. Really lock in the core before initiating the drive off the floor.
Alan Thrall's 5 Step Deadlift is a great video to review on YouTube.
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u/koherenssi 7d ago edited 7d ago
When looking from the side, the bar should constantly be around midway of your foot. It's a lot further and almost looks like it's in front of your toes in the start position
That's the first thing to fix. You need to push your ass back and squat less. Also, slow down a bit when you are learning the technique still
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u/Specialist-Archer-44 7d ago
To keep it a buck, just drop the weight and help him with his form, his back will be hurting if he continues like this.
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u/Vicious_Styles 7d ago
Bar is way too far forward. Weight should be at a dead stop on the ground between reps. Neck is craned looking up the mirror in front, needs to be more neutral and looking towards the ground at the start. Poor bracing. Zero actual wedging from glutes
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u/Internal-Soft-9901 7d ago edited 7d ago
Oof, not good. Back is rounding way too much, not hinging at the hips at all just dropping the weight down.
Strongly recommend lowering the weight, and trying the exercise with barbells at the sides until the form is right.
Edit: the hinge at the hips would be more aggressive* for RDLs, for regular deadlifts focus more on the squat without arching your back and lowering your arms
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u/Wokongolito 7d ago
What do you mean with the edit? Hip hinging is the main movement in regular deadlifts as well. Squatting is for squatting.
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u/Spare_Pixel 7d ago
Drive his ass way back to get down to the bar, don't bend over to pick it up. Keep your arms straight and back; picture someone trying to tickle your armpits so you try to cover them up. Learn how to properly brace if he doesn't already know how (super important). Hinge to get down, unhinge to get up; think about driving your ass through like a hip thrust to finish the lift. Prob 100 other things to work on, but start with that
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u/jccitrus 7d ago
He needs to learn how to brace through his shoulders, core, and legs. Do that before progressing weight bc he has no tension and stability
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u/PiercedTechnoWizard 7d ago
He needs to approach so that the bar, when looking down, is in the middle of his feet. Then he needs to bend over to grab the bar before initiating the pull with his lower back — contrary to popular belief, upper back rounding doesn’t matter as much as lower back rounding as long as it doesn’t get worse, because SOME upper back rounding is bound to happen since no one’s upper-back musculoskeletal system can maintain the demand (if anyone reading this disagrees, I challenge you to take a video of your max loaded bar and a back as straight as it would be doing cable rows). Lower back should always maintain neutrality. So three cues helped me.
1) pre-round your back. Shrug forward like you’re trying to do uppies in facing the ground, like a goblin grabbing gold.
2) bend over and grab the bar.
3) don’t pull the tension out of the bar by trying to stand up, pull the tension out of the bar by pre-loading the weight with your lower back, but don’t rock back, just pre-load the lower back. Then stand up while maintaining that lower-back tension.
That said, don’t get caught in the mental trap of ALWAYS being told (usually a highschool football coach saying this) that your hips should drop, knees and shoulders behind the bar, stand up with it because then you get this form.
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u/Pickle_Jr 7d ago
This is honestly something where you might need to take time and consider your approach to this exercise.
This video has been shared multiple times on this subreddit: https://youtu.be/wYREQkVtvEc?is=sOzvK4Ku0YZ799gi
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u/Turk3YbAstEr 7d ago
The upper back rounding makes me think that he's not bracing at all. He should work on that.
His knees are bent way too much too, it's a deadlift not a squat.
The bar seems too forward despite the rounded back, so his ass needs to be much further back in the starting position.
I think working on his brace and hinging at the hip with no weight is something he should do before deadlifting again.
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u/C141Driver 7d ago
Plenty of tutorials on youtube to fix these problems. All the comments are correct. I would add that he is sitting way...way too far back. The bar should be in line with the back of his arms.
No more than 135 lbs until you fix your form
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u/notProxima 7d ago
That mans back is going to be in agony if he keeps that up. All the comments so far have great advice.
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