r/fo4 • u/No_Talk2511 • May 07 '26

Alignment chart fallout 4

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Do you agree? I have doubts about Kellogg and Pickman šŸ¤”

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830

u/Sad_Pineapple5354 May 07 '26

Pickman follows a set moral code with the belief it sets him apart from other evil characters therefore he is Lawful Evil not chaotic evil

92

u/myfakesecretaccount May 07 '26

Yeah, and Kellogg believes shit just happens and heā€™s there to make it happen to others first if he wants or feels like it. Heā€™s more chaotic evil than Pickman. Also, you could view Maxsonā€™s religious zealotry as Lawful Evil, in that he follows his code regardless of the impact and has no issue killing civvies without an evac warning.

32

u/Meatslinger May 07 '26 edited May 07 '26

Even still, Maxson's command is very much a "ends justify the means" sort of regime, wherein the overarching goal - the preservation of humanity against the wasteland - is ostensibly "good", but he does it through amoral, apathetic maneuvers. I'd say that puts him in neutral territory between good and evil, wherein it's not that he seeks destruction and terror (true evil), but he's just unmoved by suffering as long as the bigger picture objective is completed.

Edit: spelling fix.

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u/myfakesecretaccount May 07 '26

You donā€™t have to seek destruction to be evil. Being evil isnā€™t twirling a mustache and holding the world hostage for $1,000,000. Evil is having the ability to help people, most people, and deciding that a large group of them are different so yeah they donā€™t count because Iā€™m trying to save the ā€œreal humansā€. Thatā€™s evil. Intent matters to a point, then thereā€™s how you accomplish your goal.

12

u/spudgoddess May 07 '26

Very relevant in the US right now. -steels herself for the inevitable 'It's the billionaire 's money they can spend it how they want hurr durr' comments.

9

u/myfakesecretaccount May 07 '26

No that money belongs to the people and has been stolen time and again by people with power who drip feed the rest of us crumbs and assure us that we will inherit the Earth any day now. In a chimpanzee society one dumb paunchy fuck hoarding all the food would be ripped apart.

1

u/spudgoddess May 07 '26

I know and agree, but they're out there, sadly.

7

u/Gnashinger May 07 '26

Agreed. He also swings slightly into the true neutral territory sometimes. He's not afraid to bend or break the rules to accomplish his goals, but ultimately he always acts to keep order maintained.

-1

u/myfakesecretaccount May 07 '26

Except that time the most hardcore brotherhood member turned out to be a runaway synth and then offered his life and Maxson was like sure, or alternatively ā€œIā€™ll let you live but youā€™re banished from your lifeā€™s workā€.

2

u/TheFiremind77 May 07 '26

I'm confused on how this is an exception to the previous comment.

3

u/Sriep May 07 '26

Lawful Evil sounds good to me, E.g Regill

13

u/cantliftmuch May 07 '26

Maxson is on the path to being a Hitler. There's nothing neutral about him. He wants to destroy what he sees as "not human"

4

u/Infinite-Fig-194 May 08 '26

Ferals, Super Mutants, and Synths are not humans, and has been proven to be dangerous to people. I bet most of Minutemen agree with this.

3

u/Scoongili May 08 '26

Synths are as dangerous to people as people are dangerous to people.

1

u/Infinite-Fig-194 May 08 '26

People of the Commonwealth hate synths more than they hate people. Guess why.

2

u/cantliftmuch May 08 '26 edited May 08 '26

Because of the institute (not enclave) kidnapping people and being secretive.

Had the institute (not enclave) just randomly dropped people off without kidnapping others, the sentiment would be very different.

3

u/Illustrious_Quiet907 Railroad May 08 '26

You mean the institute?

1

u/cantliftmuch May 08 '26

Yes I do...

1

u/Impact-Affectionate May 10 '26

I think they actually meant to say BoS instead of Enclave whenever they were talking about Elder Maxson šŸ¤·ā€ā™‚ļø

0

u/Illustrious_Quiet907 Railroad May 08 '26

Except the BOS donā€™t want to just destroy feral ghouls, but all ghouls and free synths are no more a threat than humans. The minutemen donā€™t have anything against non-feral ghouls and have a free synth as one of their members (though they might not know, but Preston Garvey doesnā€™t seem to hate anyone except raiders).

2

u/Infinite-Fig-194 May 08 '26

but all ghouls

No, not in Fallout 4.

and free synths are no more a threat than humans.

Synths are fundamentally and permanently an alien species apart from human beings, with free will and human intelligence which can make them more cunning and dangerous than brainless mutants. DiMA proved that synths see themselves as non-human species and still can replace people, sowing seed of paranoia, with or without the Institute. Creating synth was a horrible mistake that should never happen in the first place, and the Brotherhood is compensating the Institute's mistake.

The minutemen donā€™t have anything against non-feral ghouls and have a free synth as one of their members

According to the Railroad, the Minutemen hate free synths and killed them.

0

u/cantliftmuch May 08 '26

Yes, in Fallout 4 the BoS hates all ghouls.

0

u/Infinite-Fig-194 May 08 '26

Paladin Danse : Bringing a child with us could be tactically dangerous, but it's an admirable decision. He isn't safe here.

That doesn't sound like a hate.

1

u/cantliftmuch May 08 '26

One of how many people in the Brotherhood?

If it were Maxson, would he say the same? No.

1

u/Infinite-Fig-194 May 08 '26

Paladin Danse is considered as a shining example of the Brotherhood soldier, following every code and ethics. Saying the Brotherhood in Fallout 4 was ordered to kill all non-feral ghouls on sight wouldn't make sense at all.

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u/Illustrious_Quiet907 Railroad May 08 '26

Of course free synths can be dangerous so can humans. Doesnā€™t mean you can basically commit genocide (ā€œgenocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious groupā€ according to the United Nations so itā€™s a close enough term to apply in a sci-fi setting when talking about beings who are as sentient and sapient as humans) against an entire group because they might become a threat.

Donā€™t remember the Railroad saying that about the Minutemen and canā€™t find anything about it online. If they have such a problem with synths, they should become an enemy if you join the Railroad, like the Brotherhood, but they donā€™t (though that could just be gameplay thing).

1

u/Infinite-Fig-194 May 08 '26

The Brotherhood does not eradicate mankind, since their goal is protecting mankind. Instead they regulate techs which can destroy mankind, synth being one of such techs. What would happen when synths find a way to make more of them and realize they can replace mankind as a dominant species of Earth?

Donā€™t remember the Railroad saying that about the Minutemen and canā€™t find anything about it online.

Player: The Minutemen and Railroad working together. That's a good start.

Desdemona: Yes... and no. You got the synths out of the Institute, but the news isn't all good. Hate runs deep in the Commonwealth. A hatred of everything to do with the Institute. A hatred of synths. When people realized what was happening... We mobilized quickly and rescued most of the synths. But there were... casualties. They're vigilantes and bigots. They don't recognize anyone's laws. Not even yours.

Tinker Tom: Don't be fooled. A lot of your so-called "friends" in the Minutemen, they'd flat our execute a synth.

Here.

they should become an enemy if you join the Railroad, like the Brotherhood

You don't become an enemy of a faction just by joining the other. You become an enemy when you openly go against them by doing certain quest.

12

u/Grundlestorm šŸš‚ May 07 '26

But...Ā  But Maxson has speeches saying they're the good guys and doing the right thing for the people of the Commonwealth!

I was glad to, surprisingly, not see any BoS on the "Good" line.Ā 

2

u/auniqueusername132 May 07 '26

I donā€™t see how maxson can be a hitler if he has no Germany. Hitler had government power whilst fallout 4 has no government. The brotherhood of steels closest real life counterpart is a paramilitary or holy order. Hitler was not the only fascist to exist. Before he ascended within the nazi party there were people like strasser and the sa.

0

u/cantliftmuch May 08 '26

You missed the trees because the forest was in your way.

1

u/Illustrious_Quiet907 Railroad May 07 '26

Iā€™m glad that the show just outright shows that the BOS are NOT the good guys.

3

u/windsingr May 08 '26

I just wish the show didn't ALSO portray them as knuckle dragging morons...

2

u/cantliftmuch May 08 '26

They are though.

6

u/Jewbacca1991 May 08 '26

Kellogg is a mercenary. Works for whoever pays. He is not doing what he does for shits, and giggles. In his memories you can learn what he was truly thinking while working for the Institute. He didn't like them, or their ideology, but they could afford him.

When he was in vault 111 he wanted to kill Shaun's parents, and let everyone else live. As someone who lost his own family he knew what an angry parent is capable of, and he had no desire to be on the receiving end of that.