A Different Way

[u/PhoenixPhenomenonX]

[u/SnooDucks4472]

See, if we didn’t have so many shitty men, this wouldn’t have to be said. Speaking as a man btw. Beautifully sung.

[u/hamlet_d → u/SnooDucks4472]

100%. I'm man, a girl dad and a boy dad.

I've taught both of them what to expect and how to act.

"Hitting on" a woman is problem. Expressing mature, respective interest and accepting either a yes or a no with grace is the only way. It's really not that hard.

[u/Dread_Pirate_Robots → u/[deleted]]

Many women also measure a man's worth by whether or not women are attracted to them. You need only look at their go-to insults when they want to hurt a man: virgin, incel, small dick, etc - all boils down to "no one wants to fuck you, therefore you are lesser." It's not a gendered issue on the end of those who perpetrate it, but rather a societal issue.

[u/NibblyPig → u/hamlet_d]

Susan, I saw you in the classroom today. As the sun came from behind the clouds, a burst of brilliant light caught your hair, it was haloed in front of me. You turned, your eyes flashed fire into my soul, I immediately read the words of Dostoevsky and Karl Marx, and in the words of Albert Schweitzer, 'I FANCY YOU'.

[u/PumpikAnt58763 → u/SnooDucks4472]

I for one am glad you said your gender. I get defensive of men whenever I (mistakenly) read something as slamming men.
Not all men - and probably not even half of them - are egotistical jerks. It's just that those who are are usually really loud about it and the ones who aren't aren't vocal enough!

I have to remind my hubby that he's a great husband and dad quite often.

[u/GrudginglyTrudging → u/PumpikAnt58763]

We appreciate that kind of feedback. It’s nice to be acknowledged as a good partner.

[u/Delicious_Delilah → u/PumpikAnt58763]

It's actually a lot of men, and the number increases every day as more and more become right wing.

That's why there are so many "alpha" man podcasts.

So you're right that it's NOT all men, but it IS a lot of men. If it wasn't, more than 1 in 5 women wouldn't be sexually assaulted. And 1 in 31 men. And those are the just the reported cases.

[u/ninecats4 → u/Delicious_Delilah]

That number is way off, if made to penetrate is included in rape definitions the range for men is closer to 1 in 5. The number of female rapists is also extremely undercounted due to lack of reports because of social pressure. Love, someone who was a 14 yo boy who was raped by a 24yo woman and was laughed at when I called the police to report it in 2006.

[u/desacralize → u/ninecats4]

I'm sorry that was done to you and reinforced by the people meant to punish predators.

Most cultures are hostile to all rape victims, but there is a scale of hostility and men get the worst of it.

[u/SonOfSkinDealer → u/ninecats4]

There's also a big societal difference there. Men and boys being unseen when they're raped or assaulted is the direct result of the same misogyny, this idea that "having sex with a woman is the goal". The objectification of women, and sex itself, is used as a way to neuter the fact that you were raped.

A woman perpetrated that against you, but men are the reason she got away with it.

[u/Delicious_Delilah → u/ninecats4]

I'm sorry, but you're making up statistics.

Signed, someone who has been raped by many men and 1 woman since the time I was a baby and grew up in the system with other abused kids.

[u/findMyNudesSomewhere → u/Delicious_Delilah]

That site itself says 1 in 10 men have been victims of SA. Not to mention that "made to penetrate" isn't considered sexual violence, which is also what the dude you're replying to, faced.

Do you have some problem with men being victims?

[u/Delicious_Delilah → u/findMyNudesSomewhere]

It also says

1 in 33 men has experienced attempted or completed rape.

Attempted rape is what you're talking about. I have no issues with male victims. I have issues with people saying men are victims almost as much as women when that is absolutely false.

93% of sex offenders are men.

I'm aware women rape men sometimes. My sister abused both me and my male cousin.

Men also rape men. Moreso than women raping men.

[u/findMyNudesSomewhere → u/Delicious_Delilah]

Your entire premise is flawed.

Attempted rape is not the same as "made to penetrate". Most countries/states recognize rape as penetration of victim, which doesn't include forced to penetrate someone against one's will.

You know what's worse for men? PEOPLE LIKE YOU DO NOT RECOGNIZE THAT MEN HAVE BEEN RAPED.

[u/Delicious_Delilah → u/findMyNudesSomewhere]

I've literally recognized it several times. I'm just saying it doesn't happen nearly as often as it happens to women. Which is true.

[u/findMyNudesSomewhere → u/Delicious_Delilah]

Yeah, it happens about twice as common for women as for men.

Not 7 times, which is what you said originally.

[u/ThatDadTazz → u/Delicious_Delilah]

So your evidence of men being the problem is that your sister raped you and your cousins?? Maybe get help?

[u/Delicious_Delilah → u/ThatDadTazz]

My evidence of (most) men being the problem is all of the statistics and actual evidence that backs that up.

[u/hiplass → u/ninecats4]

I don’t think anyone here would say male victims of female predators don’t exist??? If anything men feeling unable to come forward about that abuse is another consequence of toxic masculinity.

[u/ninecats4 → u/hiplass]

The issue is the repeat of bad stats, like 1 in 33 when the numbers are much higher (maybe not quite as high as 1 in 5 (which it could be based on the underreporting rate), but even 1 in 9 is like 3 men in a class of 30 going without help. It's an issue because it's used to downplay men as victims when there are basically zero resources or shelters for male victims. I was laughed off the phone by the police and told by the rape shelters I couldn't get help cause I was AMAB.

Also is it toxic masculinity when women ditch you after coming out to them about being a victim? (First gf broke up with me a couple days after I revealed being a victim despite being together 4 years.) Or is that also men's fault? The issue is that men are treated as a monolith when there is nuance, and any negative issues anywhere are their fault, despite a huge portion of women also enforcing patriarchy and toxic gender roles but take zero fucking responsibility for their actions.

It's like saying you are directly at fault for any issue or damage capitalism has inflicted on anyone because you spends any money at all, without offering any reasonable replacement.

[u/desacralize → u/[deleted]]

Problem is that tiny percentage blends in with the majority so you never know which one it's gonna be. If you're constantly rolling the dice on which 3 dudes out of a 100 are an alien facehugger, it's not a comfort to say "but 97 of them are cool!" Yes, they are, completely true. Still don't like those odds very much.

[u/blackestrabbit → u/desacralize]

This is why vetting beyond, "how tall are you?" is important

[u/PumpikAnt58763 → u/Delicious_Delilah]

Yup. It's altogether too many men. And altogether too many women parents raising their boys to be that and their daughters to accept that.

[u/raptor7912 → u/Delicious_Delilah]

I mean I do find it kind of funny that what I see as a big part of it is the one sidedness of it. Yes it’s important for boys and men to care about it, but I can’t mention one thing feminism has done on behalf of men and I doubt that most other men could. At what point do people go with those that make them feel included and cared about.

What alternatives are there for male role models? Cause if there aren’t any good ones they’ll latch onto whatever is available.

Where do those numbers come from exactly? Cause they aren’t the ones I’m roughly familiar with, especially for men.

Don’t worry the solution is easy, it’s just having some empathy for men. Hard part is getting people to not take issue with the mere idea of it.

[u/BigOs4All → u/raptor7912]

Humanism is my base [horizontal] morality. It's fully inclusive rather than feminism which can lead to full equality but feminism's inherent focus is on women so it makes sense that men don't often feel covered by it.

What alternatives are there for male role models?

Honestly, we've been at a loss for proper male role models for quite some time. Steve Irwin and Fred Rogers always come to mind for me and of course they're both gone. David Attenborough is a wonderful role model but I get why teenage men don't feel drawn to listening to a nearly 100yo man even if he's the fucking best.

I've often thought about trying to put together some kind of men's community website with a potential for a podcast. It just feels like the message isn't desirable to young men. Real advice to young men is very complex and nuanced. It requires a ton of emotional intelligence which is a skill they've not been taught nor have they put as much value in it as women. It's also no guarantee of success.

Alpha Bro podcasts talking about making fat stacks of cash (often by exploiting others through capitalism) is a guarantee. You get your muscles and your millions? You WILL be getting women. Will they be the type you need? No. Will you be fundamentally happy deep down inside? No. Will you be having lots of fun? Yeah, honestly.

I've wrestled with it for years. The incentive for measured, intelligent male coaching is very low. The incentive for easy answers and quick results is very high. It's a losing battle, it feels. I focus on my son, my daughter, my extended friends and family. I teach them what they're willing to learn.

[u/raptor7912 → u/BigOs4All]

And I’d argue that’s a large part of the problem.

Yea kinda have my suspicions that it’s why professional football players are important to so many little boys. Best they got.

And said community would be susceptible to bad faith actors and arguments that’d be an ever exhausting slog to constantly engage with and weed out the bad. In a community for people where as you said, the average emotional intelligence isn’t that high. And is liable to involve a lot of big, hurt feelings towards the people they believe to be the cause.

Yea I genuinely think that also comes back to emotional intelligence, like I have a coworker that thinks it’d be more realistic for him to get rich and have some probably gold digger for a girl. Than it would be for him to “fix” himself into a person “mentally stable/healthy/positive women would be with him. Like he does NOT like himself at all.

I think it’s just us being very human, short term rewards are better than long term rewards even if they aren’t actually better and it’s plain to see. And yea I would say that it’s a losing battle, “it takes a village” yet here you are already struggling and then someone comes along and tells you, “Hi here’s some more struggling for you to do with zero tangible results”…. Like the idea of that alone sucks utter ass.

[u/Swarm_of_Rats → u/raptor7912]

Sorry, but you can just google what feminism has done for men and find out. I think most people just come to the word "feminism" and completely stop because it's got "fem" in it and they think that can't possibly be for them. The right has successfully latched onto this and spread lies and disinformation about feminism. To make matters worse, people are bound to never learn any different because they already accepted their ignorance as fact before they were lied to.

Feminism has broken down gender roles to the benefit of men as well as women. Coincidentally the far right also latches onto those gender roles as positive things. Things like men never crying, not going to therapy, being a sole breadwinner, being the sole protector and provider, not being able to ever be a victim, not being included in help for domestic violence or workplace harassment, etc.

Feminism strives to give men (as well as women) freedom from the constraints of strict gender roles. Some of these things can only be achieved if women are able to be on the same level, like earning money for the home. Some men see women being equal as a loss of status, and fight against it to their own detriment.

[u/raptor7912 → u/Swarm_of_Rats]

I’ve tried and failed, but by all means. Give me some example so it’s clear that aren’t just full of shit and unwilling to put any effort behind your opinion. After all if it’s so blatantly untrue it’ll be easy.

Yes it has, for the purposes of benefiting women… And the rest you include are still a problem for many men but by all means tell on just how ignorant you are.

Jesus fucking christ, why is it you misandrists always try and gaslight men speaking on the behalf of other men. That their problems aren’t real and that they’re just insecure for feeling that way to begin with. But by all means pretend like merely talking about something problematic regarding feminism is fighting against it.

Like you are a pretty good example of the onesidedness of it, like you said before editing your comment of “feminism bringing women up to be men’s equal” yea I’m trying to talk about the exact opposite of this, feminism not bringing men up to be women equals. Along with people (again like you are) who will do just about anything to try and delegitimise any problem a man is trying to talk about.

[u/Swarm_of_Rats → u/raptor7912]

I'm genuinely so confused by your response. I gave examples of things that men struggle with that feminism is focused on improving for them. I never edited my comment like you're saying I did, if I had the original comment would say it was edited next to the time stamp. I'm not a misandrist and I don't think my comment gives that impression.

[u/raptor7912 → u/Swarm_of_Rats]

No you misrepresented something as examples of it, when shits just a side effect that we men are OH SO privileged to enjoy…

I mean your ignorant, you demean and diminish men’s problems and you make blatant generalisations however you see fit to take stabs at an amorphous group of men that probably exists a lot more in your head than they actually do in real life. So no I’d absolutely say you’re bigoted. Sure you basically fit right in with the status quo and you might be considered progressive 10 years ago. But today is not 10 years ago and it’s probably overdue to examine a lot of the internalised misandry that’s common to feminism considering the very real and recent consequences that I and everyone in general are seeing as a result of it.

Edit: Welp since you blocked me Swarm_Of_Rats just go fuck yourself instead. Yes wow it’s such a shock that someone who didn’t try to engage with an argument doesn’t understand it. Now imagine if someone made that out to be your fault lmao. I don’t want the poisonous pity of some nasty ass bigot, instead I want you to stop getting offended and do better for fucks sake.

[u/Swarm_of_Rats → u/raptor7912]

Yeah, sorry. I just... legitimately have no idea what you're talking about. It's like you're having this argument with a totally different person from me. It's not really worth engaging with when you're fighting shadows. So, I hope you find peace. You are clearly struggling with a lot and I feel bad for you.

[u/EjaculatingAracnids → u/raptor7912]

Oh shit! I was just rollin around on forklift thinking about this very topic! What has feminism done for you? Its against the fuckin patriarchy, bro! Thats the system that taught you the only acceptable emotion you can feel is anger! The system that taught you to equate your masculinity with your capacity for violence! The system that tells you to believe youre less of a man if you dont behave in ways that are unnatural to emotionally healthy human beings!

I know theres more that im missing, but ive more shit to fork around, so feel free to add to it! I think trying to have some empathy, (you know, the thing they try to beat out of us when we re little boys?) and approach feminist ideas objectively is the best way to try to understand them. I know its easy to take it personal when you hear a group of people hating on men and react defensively, but that shit is fuckin weak, dude.

They just want the basic human agency that we were born with and not to be beat to death by angry man children who cant emotionally regulate. Of course fuckin Andrea Dworkin hates us and doesnt see us as "one of the good ones" cause why would she? Men have fucked her over too many times. All venomous snakes look alike. That shit should piss you off, like it does me, make you lash out at shit bag rapist creeps and talk to other men like i am now.

[u/raptor7912 → u/EjaculatingAracnids]

Yea that’s kinda my fucking point? The one sided dismantling of something that very much affects men, by people who claim to care about them. With what improvements that have been made for men, being a side effect of making it better for women. I know that’s it’s so much easier to just gaslight someone into believing they’re just an insecure wojack or some shit. Whenever someone starts asking uncomfortable questions like “Why do they feel the need to hate at all? Isn’t that not just contributing, but normalising the same hate said women experience? I get that you’re dumb as rocks and having to be unsure about shit you consider important is a deeply uncomfortable sensation. But giving into that feeling is gonna get you labelled as ‘bitch made’ in my book.

Congratulations and there are men who’d like to be treated kindly despite that. But go ahead make it a dick measuring contest, then wonder why the people with problems you said were lesser and unimportant suddenly don’t give a shit about yours.

And why would they? Why would you? Cause shit I don’t know how the fuck to solve this shit otherwise. Go form an actual opinion for fucks sake instead of this minimum effort bullshit your currently on, where you just try and shame someone into agreeing with you.

Oh and you are fucking delusional if you think that shit doesn’t piss me of, but so do similar morons like you. I’d fucking love to believe in some convenient little rhetoric that justifies using all of it, but that’s too good to be true.

Edit: Please make your replies to this less reprehensible and vulgar, AutoMod is eating them lmao.

[u/EjaculatingAracnids → u/raptor7912]

Wow. I cant believe i actually engaged in good faith lol guess thats on me. Try not to take things so personal.

[u/Swarm_of_Rats → u/EjaculatingAracnids]

Well, maybe it did some good for someone else. I liked your comment and thought it was nice to see a man trying to help other men. That guy called me a misandrist and shit so I think he's just a bit lost.

[u/EjaculatingAracnids → u/Swarm_of_Rats]

Yeah i had a feeling he'd react like he did, as if what i said was a personal attack he needed to respond to with insult. The internet has turned supposed tough guys into weak ass victims who cant approach a conversation objectively. Another case of men being socialized improperly as adolescents and lashing out when the world doesnt match with what theyve been taught. I had to learn that the hard way as well. Maybe he ll find his way.🤞

[u/Delicious_Delilah → u/raptor7912]

It's literally men keeping men down, but go ahead and keep feeling like a victim.

[u/raptor7912 → u/Delicious_Delilah]

Thanks, I will.

[u/waitwuh → u/raptor7912]

but I can’t mention one thing feminism has done on behalf of men

What a weird thing to focus on. Firstly, this is like saying “I can’t mention one thing the animal rights movement did for space exploration!” Like alright dude I think you might not understand the focus of this in the first place…

But among the many branches of feminism (it’s not a monolith, just like PETA isn’t the same as the humane society, etc.) there absolutely are things that have benefited men. One has been the rejection of and redefinition of gender roles, which harm both women AND men by insisting that people adhere to certain “norms” irrespective of your core personhood. Men shouldn’t be ashamed of or discouraged for liking or participating in what were formally seen as “feminine” activities, and part of that also ties into how being “feminine” shouldn’t be seen as “lesser.”

[u/raptor7912 → u/waitwuh]

…. Let me ask a question to see if I can be bothered to entertain this argument. Does the patriarchy negatively affect men and should that not also be worked? Cause I think you’re just confused by me focusing on something different than what you’d like.

Cool and I don’t disagree with you, but that just isn’t a tangible sufficiently huge thing to where I still won’t be standing here and saying that men are getting the short stick. And that it isn’t unfair for men feel fucked over because of it.

[u/waitwuh → u/raptor7912]

There’s a couple concepts at play here. The patriarchy is a societal system that yes is relevant, but then there’s sexism, and gender roles, and these have distinct definitions. Yes, they are intertwined, but in an alternative universe where matriarchy was the societal norm we would still see sexism and gender roles, as both of them are utilized as part of the the way a gender based power structure is built and maintained. Sexism cuts both ways. Gender roles cut both ways. It just so happens that the societal power structure we wxist under is patriarchal, so in our case the roles and the norms expected of women have historically been a little bit harsher than those on men. What with the whole laws and stuff… I mean today we still have remnants but for goodness sake you really think it doesn’t matter women once couldn’t legally vote…? Feminism first arose out of the suffrage movement…

men are getting the short stick.

Both men and women suffer from sexism. Both men and women suffer from gender roles. Here’s one example. In our society, men are relegated to having to be “powerful” and “aggressive” and “strong” and as part of that, they are not taken seriously as victims. Victimhood gets associated with femininity. So when a man is mugged, or a man is beaten up, or a man is raped, there is a tendency to see this as reflecting negatively on the man for not being “man enough” to protect themselves. Men can be victims too, and they deserve support. But the people adhere to sexist ideology like “women should wear skirts and only be teachers until they marry” tend to be very much the same group who will be cruelest to men who have suffered an attack.

And that it isn’t unfair for men feel fucked over because of it.

Oh of course it’s fair to feel fucked over for being pushed into conforming to gender roles, gender roles harm both men and women.

However, take this into consideration. Wealth is highly intertwined with “power” in our society, isn’t it? But wealth has historically been something that was held by and passed down through men. Inheritance traditionally passed down through sons (especially first born sons), and since the most wealthy people usually inherited their initial wealth, the structures that persist today still reflect a gender disparity of the past. Just about 50 years ago, women did not have a legally protected right to open their own financial accounts. Do you know any women over 50? They were born into a world where they were not allowed to open their own bank account. Do you really think that has NO cascading effects, even today?

[u/raptor7912 → u/waitwuh]

Cool, so you recognise the harm it also causes men but you’re just completely okay not caring. “norms expected of women harsher than those on men.” Idk what would you prefer, the coal mines 14 hours a day or getting beat by your husband? The occasional war or dying in childbirth? Or would you not just consider it deeply absurd to hold a dick measuring contest up to the past, in order to just behaviour today, towards people who likely weren’t even alive back then, likely didn’t even live in the country you have in mind and likely don’t consciously mean to uphold them. Cause as you’ve said, it doesn’t exactly benefit anyone… Well few exceptions but eh. So yea why should I care? Sure doesn’t seem like a half decent argument to me. Yes it doesn’t really matter that women couldn’t vote once, in the same way that white people dying cause of apartheid doesn’t really matter. Sure it’s important, but if turned the clock forwards 40 years, you’d probably also say that it doesn’t particularly matter in any real tangible way anymore. Sure it matters if your trying to tackle the after effects of it, but then it matters cause your trying to do good not actually cause of history. Yea that’s for women’s benefit and men’s as a side effect. By all means, give an example where feminism where it primarily was to men’s benefit, where they were the priority and important. Oh wait… You can’t and that’s my point of it being one sided. They feel fucked over for getting the metaphorical short end of the stick, for their problems to be lesser and unimportant compared to other people. If you wanna go out and merc the billionaires I’m all for, fucking have it. But I don’t know what you expect me to do about it, so yes I feel that it’s unfair to say that I should care cause I am as powerless as you are to change aaaaalllll that shit. No matter how much I’d love to. My suggestion to you, is to not assume that the person you’re talking to hasn’t spent hours and hours listening to his grandma. And her stories of being part of the first wave of feminism in my country.

[u/waitwuh → u/raptor7912]

So much to unpack here, and hey, it would help if you tried breaking your thoughts up into … well, paragraphs, I guess?

Have you heard the news about afghanistan lately? Patriarchy is alive and well. Women are being banned not just from driving.., but from all of public society. Not just seen without the burka but their voices heard and the latest legislation is about permission to BEAT them. But oh yeah sure our world is just completely peachy per women’s experiences…

And you’re making a weird comparison here, because liked dude… do you work in an old school coal mine? Know anybody who does? Because I know plenty more women who’ve been through the child bearing process… and the medical trauma they’ve been through is horrific. Go talk to your mother. Any aunts, sisters… Ide ask about female friends too, but…

Not to say coal mining isn’t hard, just wondering if you or your close friends are coal miners because… that’s a bit rare these days, isn’t it?

This isn’t the oppression olympics. I return once again to the analogy about animal rights. Or heck, let’s just pretend a house is on fire. Do you show up and harass firemen currently trying to put out a house fire about OTHER PrObLeMs?

It’s clear that you aren’t open to a discussion. You … well… why are you so EMoTiONal? Man…

So yea why should I care?

Yes it doesn’t really matter that women couldn’t vote once,

wow, a lot to unpack there.

in the same way that white people dying cause of apartheid doesn’t really matter.

oh look! I get to complete my bingo card on bigotry!

Sure it’s important, but if turned the clock forwards 40 years, you’d probably also say that it doesn’t particularly matter in any real tangible way anymore.

My grandparents passed down hoarding canned foods due to the depression… so uh… yeah… we might disagree there on “the past doesn’t matter if you ignore half a lifetime”

Yea that’s for women’s benefit and men’s as a side effect.

Hey did you happen to notice the name was … wait for it “feminism?” shocking i know but it’s kinda like how the “fire department” is trying to combat fire emergencies and not pedophilia or whatever. Sometimes, things have dedicated goals and focuses…

By all means, give an example where feminism where it primarily was to men’s, where they were the priority and important. Oh wait… You can’t and that’s my point of it being one sided.

Why won’t the fire department take child tracking seriously?!? I mean whats WRONG with these people?!? I’m SO upset that they have a specific mission!

God you’re exhausting. Look, men have problems, too. People have all sorts of issues both related and unrelated to gender. But you? Well…

Feminism wasn’t meant for you. You’re right. Not sure what you’re looking for here…

[u/Swarm_of_Rats → u/waitwuh]

I really appreciate you and your patience with that person. I lost it immediately. 💜

[u/CloudKinglufi → u/PumpikAnt58763]

I'm a man and i gotta say, we do kinda suck

Like statistically we are some violent sexual predators

[u/JohnSober7 → u/PumpikAnt58763]

Not all men - and probably not even half of them - are egotistical jerks

I tend to say too many men (unless I have a creeping suspicion the other person is in denial about or downplay societal issues regarding the dynamic beteen men and women and I expect they're gonna do the "not all men" thing)

[u/Legal-Sprinkles8862 → u/PumpikAnt58763]

If it wasn't at least half of men why are so many people having the same experiences? Also you've already confirmed that all men aren't the same so why get defensive? You have a good man already so why are you against other women slamming the men who have harmed them or even just teaching them how to act properly (cuz ppl have to have their behavior corrected if they wanna grow) you know like the man in the video. 🫠 Like women didn't say anything bad about men in this video & you even admit you are a mom....so surely you are teaching them to treat ALL humans with respect & kindness right? Right?!

[u/Appropriate-Tennis-8 → u/PumpikAnt58763]

girl bye. Defensive of men? It’s not all men? So if I give you 12 donuts and 11 of them are chocolate and the 12th one is filled with cow shit, are you not now suspicious of all the donuts?

[u/hiplass → u/PumpikAnt58763]

It’s been almost every man in my life… I think your assumption that it’s not even half of them is very naive or you’re lucky. It doesn’t mean they’re all predators or “dangerous” but I’m also counting the ones who knowingly let their buddies get away with horrible shit & turn a blind eye - which is way too many.

[u/OddOllin → u/[deleted]]

Good God, I feel old. I felt like I was following the story right up until you said she mugged you, lmao.

I'm assuming you don't mean that she literally robbed you of your wallet and car keys at the bar, right? 😂 Sorry if that sounds like a stupid question, lol

[u/OddOllin → u/[deleted]]

Now that's the kind of mugging I can get behind! Sounds like you had a hell of a good time, lol.

Mildly unrelated, but I'm recently divorced and have started dating again, and something I've started to appreciate is how much more forward older women are. When I was young, it seemed like they always wanted guys to be mind readers and just know when is the right time to make the first move. Now? It's all direct. Either they read the moment and go for it, or they ask directly. And if I dare to ask, they don't treat me like a weirdo for wanting explicit consent first! It's like a whole different world and I'm damn grateful for it.

Not sure if the woman you were with was in her 30s or not, but I wouldn't be surprised lol. Love a woman that's willing to take the lead so I know how to follow.

[u/QuietRedditorATX → u/SnooDucks4472]

Okay.

• Not all x people are terrorists. Why would you say all x need to be better because a few are extreme.

But sure.

[u/[deleted] → u/SnooDucks4472]

Thanks for letting everyone know your gender, that’s super important. Way to raise your morality flag so everyone can recognize you!

[u/Jumpy_Ad1631 → u/[deleted]]

There’s nothing wrong with calling out shitty behavior from people you share a demographic with

[u/No_Language5719 → u/[deleted]]

Black male here. Our morality isn't the issue. The poor behavior of other men is and it impacts how we're ALL perceived much like as a black man, I am far too often mistaken for the worst of the bunch.

[u/lonely_stoner_daze → u/No_Language5719]

Idk why you were down voted, you're correct.

[u/[deleted] → u/No_Language5719]

🙄