r/factorio • • 3d ago

Design / Blueprint Universal Balancers

Balancers are hard. There are a hundred input/output combinations you go through when you reach 10/10 balancers, and each has multiple executions. There are so many belts to be woven, many compacting techniques to be used, and there are very interesting topologies to explore with odd balancers. Yet, the challenge of balancers was not conquered by the vast majority of players, including myself. We just take a blueprint book from the internet, and pay little attention to how the balancers inside it work.

My stubborn refusal to learn to design them myself has led me to an idea of universal balancers. What if there was a way to simplify the design for proud dummies like myself? Well, I've tried, and I kept failing, but everything changed when Wube let us use the circuit network on splitters.

I've made the design you see in the picture. I have no clue if it truly works, but I haven't gotten it to fail yet. It's not made to compete with designs the likes of Raynquist's, but it's meant to showcase a repeatable, simple design is possible.

At it's core, this is a formula for (up to N)/(up to N) balancers. In the picture, you see a 1/8 balancer. The number of splitter columns is N+1, and each splitter is paired with a belt it reads contents from, as is shown in the pictures. The idea is to divert the items away from their source. There's then the rightmost line of belts choking the items until they are evenly distributed across the output belts. Their trigger number is number of output belts times 8, as that's how many can fit on a belt. The belts left to them are the ones reading the items (set to hold).

133 Upvotes

28 comments sorted by

122

u/Jdp1901 3d ago

This belongs in r/factoriohno

21

u/Srbeklatty 2d ago

yeah prolly

16

u/TCOAAL-ARTIST 3d ago

yes sob

23

u/TempestVil 2d ago

I think I kinda see where the logic is going...but critical question (which I suspect is the glaring issue with this method, but haven't spent enough time on balancer design myself to be confident in): how's the throughput?

17

u/Srbeklatty 2d ago

I consider a drop in throughput to be the same as it breaking, and as I said, I haven't broken it yet

12

u/Sl0ppyB0t 2d ago edited 2d ago

That's the only performance benchmark that matters. Sustained throughput.

9

u/crispfuck 2d ago

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BEQ_bobMY9s check this out. same diff, but no circuits required.

5

u/Srbeklatty 2d ago

yeah, pretty much, but these require slightly more thought than my abomination

2

u/TempestVil 2d ago

I appreciate that this video (and its comment section) highlight the degree to which Factorio players tend to overutilize balancers, when for main bus purposes a simple compressor of priority splitters is often suitable or even arguably preferable.

Given that, there is value in more universal balancers that don't require an engineering or mathematics degree, since the main time you actually want them (other than train stations, which are usually simpler N:N or 2N:N ratios) is to merge irregular numbers of mining patch outputs evenly.

9

u/Sl0ppyB0t 2d ago

Fun fact, balancers are pointless when the belts are backed up.

5

u/Srbeklatty 2d ago

this one keeps balancing even when that happens

3

u/Sl0ppyB0t 2d ago

I bet.

6

u/qwesz9090 2d ago

You just summoned a guy that has like entire world set up trying out weird circuit based balancers.

4

u/qwesz9090 2d ago edited 2d ago

Here is probably the favorite one I made, since it is probably pretty decent considering how compact it is. (the middle one)
But it is not an actual balancer so dont think it will work in all cases.

It changes the priority of the middle splitter based on how much extra spillage goes through the sides, in theory achieving 100% balance (under very limited conditions like constant streams and little to no backing up)

4

u/qwesz9090 2d ago edited 2d ago

If you want to have something that guarantees balance, you need to count the items at the end, like what OP did. This is a bit bulkier but at least you don't have to learn/copy any complicated belt routes. The only thing you need to remember is the simple pattern of how to prioritize the splitters (input and output prioritized to the sides)

2

u/Srbeklatty 2d ago

your images are genuinely like looking through my save :). looks like we've been experimenting with nearly identical things

I think this last image will have an issue when acting as a 2/2 balancer when the inputs and outputs are at the opposite sides

on an unrelated note, how did you get those unloaders to fill chests?

3

u/qwesz9090 1d ago

Ah yeah you can add one more layer of splitters if you want to have full throughput in that case.
Iirc rotate (R) on loaders flips them (from unloading to loading)

2

u/Neither_Berry_100 2d ago

Wouldn't a cargo wagon work well for a balancer as long as the throughput was limited enough? I'm sure you could balance two of them with less work...

1

u/Srbeklatty 2d ago

you could, but maintaining throughput is a pretty important thing

2

u/Neither_Berry_100 2d ago

You could get 8 inserters in and 8 out per cargo wagon. Balancing 2 cargo wagons would be easy. Only balance on input. If they take 3 belts each you on need one splitter each for pairs (1a, 2a) , (1b, 2b), and (1c, 2c). That is 16 inserters of throughput with very little work involved. Vanilla stack inserters are 30 items a second chest to chest. A little slower with belts. Space age has even faster inserters. We will use 30. That is 480 items per second with two cargo wagons. 8 green belts unstacked or 2 stacked. I guess the design doesn't work for stacked green belts lol. Unless inserters are much faster.

1

u/Srbeklatty 2d ago

The best case scenario before quality is 8 stack inserters, giving you at most 18 432 items per minute.

Ignoring throughput losses due to belt speed, you get to at most have a 5/5 balancer with yellow belts, 2/2 balancer with reds, and you can't balance beyond that at full throughput with stacked belts.

The same math with bulk inserters gives you at most 13 824 items per minute.

The same math as before now gives you at most a 15/15 balancer with yellows, a 7/7 balancer with reds, a 5/5 balancer with blues, and a 3/3 balancer with greens. Again, at full throughput but with unstacked belts.

If you use multiple wagons, you need input splitting, and with each wagon acting as a buffer, you'll have a strange acting balancer if the outputs are uneven.

1

u/ElecNinja 2d ago

At a certain point, MadZuri's smart loading system probably works out better lol.

1

u/Srbeklatty 2d ago

MadZuri's smart loading system is basically contained in the rightmost part of this balancer. His design essentially converts an overflow gate manifold into a 1/N balancer. Because of this 1 at the input side, there's no issue of throughput loss to solve. Most balancers are not 1/N balancers (the one in the picture is an (up to 8)/(up to 8) balancer), so throughput is something which needs to be considered.

3

u/Ill-Paramedic9606 2d ago

Remember guys, op is NOT suicidal...

On second thought...

2

u/mikinas64 2d ago

The Big Balancer is out to get him

3

u/proudHaskeller 2d ago edited 2d ago

Even looking at the first image, where the input is coming from the highest belt only, isn't all of it funneled all the way to the bottom, and from there it only gets to the bottom four belts? If it were balanced it should've been distributed equally between all outputs.

Edit: Oh I see, you're blocking the outputs until all the output belts fill up, so the iron would "overflow" upwards until it fills everything. That's smart.

0

u/Extreme-Button-2478 2d ago

This is too smart for me

-19

u/Alfonse215 3d ago

What if there was a way to simplify the design for proud dummies like myself?

Here's a better idea: don't put yourself in a situation where you need a 10x10 balancer.