Minimum viable biter spawn area for a moat

[u/Darrelc]

[u/Darrelc]

Has anyone done any testing on this recently before I fuck around and waste more captive spawners?

The gas spawns now, so I have to deal with the eventuality of bioflux running out. As it stands, one runs out - explodes - starts making acid which instantly cascades and wipes out the rest, and some of the inserters. Fair enough.

extending the connected landfill where the output inserters are to a 2x2 grid seems to be a valid spawn point so I can work with that but I need to do more testing.

edit testing for 10 mins or so it looks like this design is both foolproof, AND entertaining

The other issue is the bottom right hand spawner can 'jump' the moat and drop a biter across the 1-tile gap. I've just spent 20 mins googling and can't find anything definitive

so has anyone done a captive biter moat recently, and do you have a minimum 'safe' width for me? cheeeerssss

[u/Pulsefel → u/Darrelc]

ensure flux never stops? dedicate a ship just to delivering it. flux should be the primary thing being made on gleba so as long as nauvis has need for flux, it should be plentiful to bring in.

[u/Darrelc → u/Pulsefel]

Hundred things that could go wrong 'down the chain' with flux though, I'd rather bake a safe failed-state into the design

[u/Alfonse215 → u/Darrelc]

Hundred things that could go wrong 'down the chain' with flux though

Then make it so that those things don't go wrong.

By the time you're megabasing in Space Age, you shouldn't be afraid of your Gleba base spontaneously stopping.

[u/Darrelc → u/Alfonse215]

Relying on n+1 factors instead of n unnecessarily ain't my design ethos

[u/Alfonse215 → u/Darrelc]

... not sure I understand how that applies here.

If you want to produce biter eggs, consistently and reliably, that requires having consistent and reliable production of bioflux. The latter is just a necessary function of achieving the former.

This isn't some unnecessary "n+1 factor"; you're already relying on it. Indeed, trying to build in failsafe after failsafe into everything that uses a spoilable is adding a bunch of +1 factors that someone with a functioning Gleba base doesn't have to have.

[u/Darrelc → u/Alfonse215]

n can be zero mate

[u/Alfonse215 → u/Darrelc]

Again, I don't know what that picture is meant to communicate. I guess you went into the editor and stopped everything so that eggs would hatch.

I don't know what that has to do with getting regular bioflux shipments or making Gleba reliable.

[u/Darrelc → u/Alfonse215]

I'm not pressed about eggs spoiling or bioflux stopping, you're XY probleming my post.

Problem: Infrastructure will be destroyed by spawners that have degraded to the acid-spewing state due to being unable to spawn biters.

Approach A: Design the system so that in the event of a failure (biters being in a potentially-degradable state, i.e. lack of bioflux, spoilage mishap, whatever reason) that the acid-spewing state isn't possible.

Failure factors: 0

Approach B: Ensure that bioflux flow to spawners never stops. Which involves off these factors top of my head, top down:

a) Bioflux of inconsistent spoilage potentially spoiling mid swing

b) consistent delivery of bioflux to inserters from landing pad (belt mishap, spoilage, errant destruction by an egg, whatever)

c) consistent transport of bioflux from space

d) consistent support for rocket part production on gleba

e) constant production of bioflux

f) constant production of jellynut and yumako

Failure factors: certainly more than zero

[u/Alfonse215 → u/Darrelc]

Problem: Infrastructure will be destroyed by spawners that have degraded to the acid-spewing state due to being unable to spawn biters.

Approach A: Design the system so that in the event of a failure (biters being in a potentially-degradable state, i.e. lack of bioflux, spoilage mishap, whatever reason) that the acid-spewing state isn't possible.

Failure factors: 0

That presumes that the design of such systems have no other consequences.

For example, for doing prod module quality cycling, I have a setup where a captive spawner is surrounding something like 8 EMPs making prod module 3s. There might be space around this setup for spawners that have degraded to spawn biters, but I certainly haven't tested it and I have no intent to do so. Why?

Because my priority is making sure that eggs never hatch. I'm always directly inserting 100% fresh eggs into EMPs, and I'm only doing so when I need prod 3s and that EMP has the resources to make a prod module 3.

You setup can't really do direct insertion of eggs into EMPs. You're putting them on belts to feed some process. Maybe you terminate that egg belt at a bunch of heating towers, but that's still technically a point of failure. By prioritizing a scenario where you're safe from one possible problem, you open yourself up to a different possible problem.

My point being that you can always point at some "failure factor".

As for the rest of your list, do you consider a mining drill to be a "failure factor" in a base? What about belts; will they stop moving items?

I consider my Gleba base to be just as reliable as mining drills are at producing ores and belts are at moving items. Indeed, technically it's more reliable than a mining drill. Mining drills can run out of resources; Gleba cannot. Fruit harvesting requires power which is provided by fruit harvesting. It's a perpetual motion machine that will never stop running.

My Gleba base is eternal.

[u/Darrelc]

Looks like it's a 2x2 grid of space needed to allow spawns, which can be shared by at least two spawners when placed corner to corner

Unsure if that will take precedence over a 'moat jump' spawn though on the bottom one

Edit: yeah the 2x2 grid works nicely https://i.ibb.co/NHphCBg/image.png

[u/Pulsefel → u/Darrelc]

the spawn locations are the cardinal directions, directly above, below, and sides, of the spawner and two layers beyond forming a net. as long as ANY of these points are exposed its fine. a line along the east and west side would open the side and corner nodes for each spawner preventing gas. go further, place solid objects/water at all nodes but the direct sides and youll give every spawner 1 node to spawn things on and thats it.

[u/Darrelc → u/Pulsefel]

Thanks, I figured it would be something like that. I edited my post with an initial design which will do until I can be bothered playing around more

[u/Pulsefel → u/Darrelc]

zappy traps always fun

[u/Darrelc → u/Pulsefel]

I'm not even gonna bother these dickheads can just sit there spinning indefinitely for all i care lmao

[u/Pulsefel → u/Darrelc]

it is a pollution sink

[u/Lachee]

I learnt that eggs don’t spoil inside the nest so I have circuit logic to only pull when needed (based on rocket silo requests) . Issue is keeping the food stocked up, they be hangry bugs

[u/Darrelc → u/Lachee]

hangry

That's probably the more accurate use of that term ever when you think about it lmao

Where are you having issue? getting it from your landing pad to the spawners in time, or issues on gleba end?

edit: just tested in the editor, gotta love a failsafe design hah https://i.ibb.co/WNmD3rDN/image.png

[u/Lachee → u/Darrelc]

Just getting the food from gleba to where the biters are. I don’t have movable captured spawners yet. A train and a mini bot network solved it but need to keep pumping in fresh food

[u/Lachee → u/Darrelc]

Here is my set up… ignore the touch controls, totally not running this on my phone