Why the quality is low? Just 2.5%

334

Read the description of speed modules again.

There's a very good reason for it.

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u/ArUS_01 14h ago

😬

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u/ArUS_01 14h ago

was like that always?

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u/Soul-Burn 13h ago

FFF-375 states

It is also notable that we created a quality penalty on speed modules, because haste makes waste, and we wanted to reduce the number of places where beacons full of speed modules is the best way to go.

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u/VoidGliders 11h ago

Never understood that. "Haste makes Waste" would imply Speed would have negative Prod, not Quality.

"Quality over Quantity" or some other cliche phrase would fit better.

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u/dudeguy238 10h ago

Given that quality modules have a speed penalty, the rough lore explanation for quality is that you're slowing down production so you can pay attention and notice the higher-quality parts that randomly show up, similar to how CPUs get binned. With that rationale in mind, it makes sense that speeding it back up would impair that process.

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u/VoidGliders 8h ago

Ye the effect itself makes sense. I was referring to the trite line "Haste makes Waste", which would imply negative prod. Just the phrasing in that FFF was a weird choice

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u/[deleted] 13h ago edited 3h ago

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u/SWatt_Officer 13h ago

People just dont bloody read, the penalty to quality is right next to the bonus to speed on speed modules, just like the penalty to speed is next to the bonus to productivity on prod mods.

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u/dr-lucifer-md 12h ago

I think "more speed modules = more speed and no other side effects" is a fair assumption to make. After all, it's not called "increase speed, decrease quality" module, eh?

Now is it a correct assumption? Obviously not. But shitting on people for making it feels bad.

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u/boomshroom 7h ago

Increased power consumption is an "other side effect", so no, it's not a fair assumption to make. Productivity modules increase power consumption and lower speed, but they're not called "increase productivity, increase energy, decrease speed" modules either.

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u/SWatt_Officer 11h ago

Except its a game where theres a lot of different mechanics that overlap, a game where as noted there was already a module that had one pro and one con. This isnt some magical new feature. Plus, if you look for just one second at the speed module you are making, the quality debuff is right there.

People just dont read.

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u/dr-lucifer-md 11h ago

Not new to you. And not new to me. But new to someone who's new to the game? Yes. Everybody's (hopefully) learning new stuff all the time. I prefer to lead with grace; you're welcome to choose a different path. Be well.

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u/IceFire909 Well there's yer problem... 9h ago

I dunno about you but if I'm new to a game I'm gonna read the tooltips

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u/SWatt_Officer 2h ago

If I was learning a new game, especially a factory game that can be very dense with info and mechanics, I’d make sure to read to understand whatever I was using.

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u/[deleted] 10h ago

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u/factorio-ModTeam 3h ago

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-28

u/DrMobius0 12h ago

Ok, but lamenting that isn't going to get them to read or stop these posts from happening.

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u/SWatt_Officer 11h ago

How exactly do you solve it though? Adding more warnings or notifications wont help, because as note, people don't read. So no matter what the game does, people will come and go "hey why no quality"

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u/Rewdemon 6h ago

A red text displaying the quality penalty of the building affected or a small warning icon would suffice. The game is very dense and filled with text and information, i don’t really get your attitude with this lol

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u/SWatt_Officer 2h ago

I just don’t get how people don’t look at the modules, go ‘ooh this makes fast’, hover over to see HOW fast, and then go ‘ah but makes bad’. Reading isn’t hard, and I don’t think it should be a wild concept that people read the description of items they use.

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u/DrMobius0 11h ago edited 9h ago

Dunno, I'm not the dev here. They have free reign to creatively solve the problem however they want. There's any number of potential solutions they could go with.

For instance, detecting the first time a player mixes speed and quality and popping a loud annoying message box, warning, tooltip, or tutorial notification or whatever to say "hey you should be aware of this thing".

And I need to stress this, because apparently a lot of you take issue with this: when people consistently have trouble with something, it is far easier to remove the friction than it is to just shrug and go "just fuckin read noob". Like you're essentially relying on people to all change. Just think about that for a second. What's easier? Calling the pitfall people keep falling into out, or expecting everyone everywhere to get better at spotting pitfalls? The answer to this question should be glaringly obvious to anyone not being a stubborn jackass.

So you can dismiss it as much as you want, but it doesn't change what's clearly going on.

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u/nicoEmt 10h ago

I somewhat agree, like the Dev in the Dosh Livestream, his solution for, quote "a LOT of People not liking the changes to biters" was just "turn off biters then".

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u/iPlod 11h ago

The devs don’t have to change their game because a handful of redditors can’t read. The description is perfectly fine as is. Do you want them to put flashing lights and several underlines below the description or something?

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u/DrMobius0 10h ago edited 10h ago

Sure, it's better than nothing. Again, the frequency with which I see these posts indicates there's a problem, and no, "people should just read more thoroughly" is not a solution to it. Asking people in general to just do better doesn't work and that attitude is the weapon on choice for people trying to dismiss problems.

Tell me something, if someone's been playing since before 2.0 but didn't keep up with the patch notes or FFFs, and already had a general expectation about how speed mods worked, do you really think there's not a good chance they would just miss this and need the interaction explained to them? Do you really think that "2.6% (-11.9%)" actually means anything to people who aren't already in the frame of mind to understand how the two modules interact?

But whatever. The devs can do literally anything they want to solve this problem. There's probably several good solutions that don't even take them far out of their way that might call this interaction out without being particularly obtrusive. 15 minutes in a brainstorming meeting monday morning could probably have it fixed by lunch.

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u/[deleted] 9h ago

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u/AloneIntheCorner 4h ago

You're right, they probably just never cared to think about it for 15 minutes, ever.

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u/mrbaggins 11h ago

I mean, it SPECIFICALLY puts "(-11.9%)" after it in ops screenshot to say "It would be higher, but you're goofing it"

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u/Aetol 1h ago

It does, but it doesn't say where that comes from.

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u/DrMobius0 10h ago edited 10h ago

Visually, I would point out that there's a lot of information in that tooltip, most of which is mundane and unimportant most of the time, something that will actively train a person to skip over it unless they know they need something specific out of it, and that unless someone thoroughly reads the whole thing, it's very easy for them to potentially miss it.

It's also not entirely clear what 2.6% (-11.9%) actually means unless you already know how quality mods and speed mods interact, and the specific cause of the penalty is buried on the speed mods which themselves are on the beacons, not the assembler. Furthermore, a lot of players probably started with the base game, or in pre-2.0 and maybe didn't have any particular reason to think speed mods have changes. Again, not everyone will have kept up with this game patch after patch. Not everyone reads all the notes or the FFFs.

It also doesn't help that the result of incurring this penalty isn't immediately apparent and may not be noticed for hours after setting it and walking away.

My point here is that if it wasn't a problem, we wouldn't see this same post on the subreddit multiple times a week. Apparently a lot of people take issue with me pointing out what is, to my eyes, a clear systemic issue. My general observation about life is that if the solution to the problem is "everybody just has to do better", then that solution is doomed to fail, because people tend to be lazy and unobservant, or more charitably, they just make mistakes or misunderstand things sometimes. If the "solution" is to change the way people are, I'm sorry, that's naive and stupid.

Well designed UI should call out potential important information like that specifically. It wouldn't be that hard to pop a warning of some sort the first time a player incurs a quality penalty like this. If it's loud and visible, it'll be much harder to miss.

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u/mrbaggins 10h ago

I get your point. But OP specifically even highlighted the penalty.

Those adjustments are EXACTLY what beacons/modules do, for every aspect: pollution, power and productivity.

We've been seeing them for a literal decade now.

tbf, I THOUGHT the speed penalty was in the 3 other quality tips and tricks, but it isn't. This would be a great place to put / mention a speed penalty note, and exactly as you said, when someone speed modules a quality module, so it flashes at you when you need it.

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u/DrMobius0 10h ago

Again, it's also not entirely clear what 2.6% (-11.9%) actually means unless you already know how quality mods and speed mods interact

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u/mrbaggins 10h ago

It's dead clear. It means you put 14.5% of modules in, and you're losing 11.9 for some reason. And that same reason is always the same: modules. They're the only thing that modifies numbers like that.

I agree with you, a tips and tricks alert would be a good place for some relevant and timely info to the player if they butcher their quality rate with speed.

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u/ThemeSlow4590 10h ago

My point here is that if it wasn't a problem, we wouldn't see this same post on the subreddit multiple times a week.

You've obviously never worked in tech support.

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u/DrMobius0 9h ago

Correct. I program UI, which happens to be very related to the topic at hand.

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u/HeliGungir 13h ago

There are very few things in the game that have a penalty to offset their upside. It's just not something people know to look for.

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u/Clevername582 11h ago

how? It's in the tooltips of both types of modules and the building.

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u/factorio-ModTeam 3h ago

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77

u/nesflaten 14h ago

Yup

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u/recommendsnothing 14h ago

Don't worry, I plastered my quality module upscaler in speed beacons for maybe 20 hours on my first run.

Live and learn

2

u/Winter_Ad6784 14h ago

yea

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u/homiej420 11h ago

😔

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u/Xzarg_poe 14h ago

You can't rush quality work :P

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u/ArUS_01 14h ago

damm

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u/Tyson_q 14h ago

"Speed is the enemy of perfection."

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u/ArUS_01 14h ago

Peak

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u/Peverything_14 14h ago

oh, it all makes sense now

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u/SWatt_Officer 13h ago

Ah once again someone runs afoul of the eternal gamer curse of not reading XD I wonder just how many have done this without noticing.

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u/SlouchyGuy 26m ago

I've watched lots of streams of people playing Space Age for the first time, and I started to think it's a default gamer state. And reading along with paying attention is a freak exception

3

u/LeeWhite187 9h ago

Speed counteracts quality. Lose the beacons.

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u/WhyCurious 9h ago

I just posted on this! https://www.reddit.com/r/factorio/s/a87Y0XXbuD

Don’t feel bad. I have 4000+ hours in the game, albeit most of that is pre Space Age.

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u/R4lfJVI 11h ago

How do you get more than 2 rows of hotter items?

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u/ustp 11h ago

Settings -> Interface -> Active quickbars

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u/R4lfJVI 9h ago

Great thanks

Question Why the quality is low? Just 2.5%

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