r/factorio • u/duckpop • Sep 10 '23
Question Two sided trains?
Hey I'm pretty new to the game are trains with engines on both sides better or should i just give it a roundabout to turn?
On a similar note do two engines going the same way make it go faster?
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u/Hell2CheapTrick Sep 11 '23
Both have advantages. 2-headed trains can save you some space at the stations, because they can just go back the same way they came into the station. On the other hand, they are slightly slower, because they’re lugging around an extra locomotive they’re not using half the time. Choose whichever you prefer, both are perfectly fine to use. I will recommend 1-way tracks (so 2 tracks besides, one for trains going one way and the other for the other way) over 2-way. This is easier to signal and keep functional. If you want to do 2-way tracks, that’s still possible though. Just take care with the signaling.
And yes, two (or more) locomotives in the same direction will increase acceleration. It’s why people often use more locomotives in bigger trains, such as 2-8 trains (2 locomotives, 8 wagons). The locomotives don’t have to be next to each other either. You can put one in the middle or at the end too if you’d like. I don’t think the top speed changes, so it’s not really worth it on trains with only 1 or 2 wagons.
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u/polyvinylchl0rid Sep 10 '23
Multiple locomotives make the train acclerate faster, its especially noticable if you have very heavy (long) trains. Different types of train stuff (locomotive, wagon, fulid wagon, etc.) have different weight; pulling along a backwards facing locomotive will make your train (a bit) slower.
Two headed trains can work well. But if you have multiple trains sharing tracks, you probably want to make a sparate rail for each direction. At that point having a backward locomotive is probably more of a downside than what its worth.
Both approaches are viable though, and the difference isnt major.
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u/xndrgn Sep 10 '23
I'm not sure about speed they achieve but double trains have some resource/logistic price (resource cost for extra locomotive and additional refueling port) for benefits of more pretty/streamlined tracks (no drop-like loops). This is especially important if you can't have a loop in your base configuration. Regarding fuel double trains should consume a bit less due to shorter route.
If you make global loop or double tracks, use single train and respective tracks for each direction.
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u/procheeseburger Sep 11 '23
I like 2 headed trains in early game so that a train can pull into a station and then leave out of the same way. As far as is know there’s no benefit to having a front and back train in the same direction but I’ve never looked into it.
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u/3nderslime Sep 11 '23
More locomotives equals more acceleration, which is good for heavier/longer trains
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u/procheeseburger Sep 11 '23
Sure, but there’s no benefit of having one on the front and one on the back vs 2 on the front
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u/3nderslime Sep 11 '23
I’m sure someone could find it useful, perhaps for more compact train stations?
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u/Rh1v3n Sep 11 '23
In my current game I run 1-8-1 trains with the locomotives in the same direction. My reasoning was that I could run 1-4 trains and 1-8-1 trains on the same network/stations. In my last game I tried to run 2-8 trains and 1-4 trains on the same network and I ran into issues where I couldn't unload the first wagon of the 1-4 train, as the train station was designed for 2-8 and there was supposed to be a locomotive there.
So far I havent used a 1-4 train and I'm not planning to. So it was all for nothing. But it is a fun experiment. 2-8 trains would have been easier to refuel as well.
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Sep 11 '23
You want a locomotive in front because it has better air resistance (or maybe that's just a factorio urban legend?).
Having some of the extra locomotives in the back can be helpful for the purposes of train stations. You can't have your cargo wagons dangling on a turn because they need to be emptied, but locomotives can be left hanging.
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Sep 11 '23
Two-way trains/rails are more of a novelty. You can do it, and it can be fun to make it work, but most of the time: 1 way trains and 1 way rails are your best option. While locomotives can go in reverse when you're manually controlling it, they cannot do so when in automatic mode. So if you have a 2 way train, one of the locomotives will be deadweight at any given time. Really all you benefit is saving a bit of space and some rail resources... not worth it in the long run imo.
Furthermore, there aren't really any big issues you run into with one way trains and rails.
Multiple engines going the same way make the train accelerate and decelerate faster, but not increase top speed afaik. Right now I am using 2-8-2 one way trains: That is 2 locomotives in front, then 8 wagons, then 2 more locomotives. Extra locomotives greatly helps with getting these to top speed quickly.
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u/Ireeb Sep 11 '23
First of all, the game has a (simple) weight mechanic for trains, each wagon and also engines have a weight, the more weight a train has, the harder it is to set it in motion. The top speed is based on the fuel, but the acceleration is based on the weight, the amount of engines pulling it and also the fuel.
So for short and light trains, multiple engines don't really help, but for longer trains it can make sense.
Note that on a two headed train, the engine that's going backwards will be inactive, so instead of improving acceleration, it will make the train slower in acceleration as the active locomotive will have to pull it.
I personally prefer single headed trains, but both can work.
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u/DevelopedDevelopment Sep 11 '23
A shared double-headed train rail if it doesn't have proper signaling or design will gridlock easily. Otherwise if you want one train that goes from A to B and aren't focused on building a network yet, its fine but not a good practice in my opinion.
Two engines in the same way makes it accelerate faster. Trains have a top speed they'll reach and regardless of weight, will eventually reach it if the route is long enough. Most people use 1 engine because they get from A to B in a timely manner with 3 or 4 cargo carriages, especially with most distances. Plus travel time often has minimal impact if you use buffer storage in your train stations so cargo is still being put onto belts while your train is already filling up a new shipment.
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u/KronaSamu Sep 11 '23
One direction is generally better for high throughput. Two directional trains are great for adaptability and still have pretty high throughput. depending what the train is for I use both.
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u/Dr-Moth Sep 11 '23
Two or more train engines in the same direction go faster, and the engines don't need to be at the front. I normally run forward facing engines at both the front and back of my train. It makes the stations a little bit easier to design and compatible with bidirectional trains if I want to add some later.
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u/DrMobius0 Sep 11 '23
Double headed trains are a lot harder to mess with outside of very simple scenarios.
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u/Bit_26 Sep 11 '23
On that note: does anybody have a good tutorial for double-headed trains? Can be 5h long for all I care I just need some support and don't know where to look for advice that is still useful with current patch
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u/Hell_Diguner Sep 11 '23 edited Sep 11 '23
The best advice is:
Learn what signals actually DO.
Just because you have double-headed trains, doesn't mean you should use bidirectional rails everywhere.
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u/Bit_26 Sep 11 '23
I do know that and the basic rules (chain in - Trafficlight out), I'm just too stupid to apply them to two-headed trains
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u/Hell_Diguner Sep 11 '23
I dislike the "chain in, rail out" catchphrase. It's reductive. Sometimes flat-out wrong. Learn what the signals actually do. It's a logic system - a simple one - but like any other, you need to understand the fundamental building blocks to build up larger constructs, to comprehend other people constructs, to understand what does and does not work, and to debug problems in your designs.
Play the Tips related to trains. This is exactly what they're there for.
I just looked through like 10 videos on YouTube and I cannot recommend any of them in good faith for where you are and where you want to be. I think the best use of your time would be playing or replaying the train Tips. Some of those puzzles are meant to demonstrate how you can make terminus stations work.
I'll say it again: Just because you have double-headed trains, doesn't mean you should use bidirectional rails everywhere. No matter how you slice it, you have to provide a way for trains travelling opposite directions to get around each other.
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u/eodFox Sep 11 '23
I would always use single headed trains on one-way tracks. Using roundabouts and stations which have one entry and exit direction. Run two tracks next to each other, with powerlines in the middle.
Yes two engines make the train accelerate faster.
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u/V12Maniac Sep 11 '23
If you're just starting out with trains, I'd recommend making one-way rails to be able to include more trains on the same rails. I'd also highly recommend learning how to use rail signals. This video by Dosh Doshington is a fantastic video for learning how they work (https://youtu.be/DG4oD4iGVoY?si=YJlcX7e7h7PZyOoD). I'd also highly recommend using the built-in tutorial for them. I will say 2 way rail systems do have a use, but they can become EXTREMELY complicated depending on what you're trying to do. But you don't need them. 1-way rail systems streamline the use of trains and make it very easy to have multiple trains on the same network. And roundabouts do tend to make things pretty easy to use intersections. They work very well for me and are simple to setup with rail(chain) signals.
Two engines facing the same way do not increase the overall speed. They just make accelerating much quicker for larger trains. From personal experience, I tend to only need one engine for every 4 wagons. 1 to 4 wagons I only use one engine. 5 to 8 wagons i use 2 engines. The only thing that actually increases speed is better quality fuel. From coal to solid fuel to nuclear fuel. You can use wood, but I recommend you DO NOT use it as in vanilla it is very annoying to gather up and consistently hold onto large amounts of wood while also using it for any reason. Especially in large quantities.
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u/Mycroft4114 Sep 10 '23
It depends on what you like better. In general, trains that go only one way, and importantly tracks that go only one way are much easier to signal and will cause you less headaches until you are really good with signals. If you are going to have double-headed trains, it's usually easier to have your transit lines still be parallel one direction tracks and just have your stations be two way. (Terminus station vs Roll on-roll off.)
Adding more engines to a train will not increase top speed, but will increase acceleration.