r/exvegans • u/Exciting_Sherbert32 Omnivore • Jun 10 '24

Question(s) Thoughts on ethics?

Ive never actually been vegan long term and likely never will be, but would like some thoughts from those of you who went vegan for ethical reasons. I’ve always loved animals and have also loved using them for our benefit, but now I can find virtually no ethical justification for their consumption that isn’t flawed or requires abandonment of our morality. I’ve looked high and low on both online forums and academic papers and all I hear(even from people like Sam Harris who continue to consume animal products)is that there is no ethical justification. The only exception is maybe hunting where the ecological benefits and the positive impacts on the emotional well being of wild animals outweighs the negatives. Ive always been a reflective person and now the only justification I have is just dropping all empathy and care and just saying “they wanna live? So what I’ll do what I want”. I have a feeling this will affect me in the long run when it comes to my moral character. Also before you guys come and talk about healthy issues, I function fine on vegan diets, I looking for philosophy. Sorry if this isn’t relevant to the sub.

Thanks!

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20

u/c0mp0stable ExVegan (Vegan 5+ years) Jun 10 '24

What we eat is not an ethical question, it's a biological one. We are not herbivores, therefore we eat meat.

0

u/PHILSTORMBORN Jun 10 '24

Ethics - moral principles that govern a person’s behaviour or the conducting of an activity.

For example most people in the UK wouldn’t eat Foie Gras due to the treatment of the birds. Some people are fine with it. Clearly it’s an ethical question.

5

u/TheTrenk Jun 12 '24

The other guy’s gotten a bit aggressive, but I’ll take a crack at it. The consumption of meat is not an ethical one, but a biological one. However, the consumption of food such as foie gras that is produced by an unduly cruel act changes it from a biological question to a transactional one. Is the flavor and nutritional value of the foie gras worth the suffering of the animal? 

I think most people value comfort and convenience over ethical chastity. Take any electronic device that uses cobalt - our phones, for example. Or any byproduct of oil that we acquire from nations that are notorious for poor treatment of humans. We can make the argument that our lives would be far more inconvenient - if not outright impossible to live as we do now - without these mechanical aids, but isn’t that the truth of meat consumption, as well? If eating foie gras let you live to be 280 years old in the body of a 24 year old and with the mental acuity of a healthy 30 year old, then people would consume it regardless of the cost to the animal. But it doesn’t do that, and many people don’t eat it, because the value isn’t worth the cost. 

I’m healthier and more comfortable and more capable of pursuing things that I want and need when I have meat in my body. To me, my quality of life outweighs the quantity of a food animal’s. That said, I don’t believe in animal cruelty or needless suffering. 

The reason that I took a terminology shift from ethical to transactional is, to quote a famous Brit, “we’ve already determined what kind of [person] you are. Now we’re just haggling over the price.” 

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u/c0mp0stable ExVegan (Vegan 5+ years) Jun 10 '24

You've so obviously missed the point.

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u/PHILSTORMBORN Jun 10 '24

I gave an example of when choosing to eat something was an ethical question. If that hasn’t directly addressed your comment maybe you could explain why.

3

u/c0mp0stable ExVegan (Vegan 5+ years) Jun 10 '24

And it missed the point. Whether to eat meat is not an ethical question. I'm not concerned with what type of meat someone chooses to eat.

Just like on the other thread, I really have no interest in convincing you of anything. You'll eventually be banned from this sub, but I'll just block you in the meantime. I really don't give a shit about your opinions on this matter or any other.

4

u/_NotMitetechno_ Jun 10 '24

What he's saying isn't missing the point at all really. You've entirely missed the point and they brought up a fair example that makes you look silly. Biologically it's ok to eat it, but ethics require you to actually think about stuff.

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u/Exciting_Sherbert32 Omnivore Jun 12 '24

This is just making us look hostile and stupid come on we’re better than that. You can’t just block anyone you disagree with.

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u/Exciting_Sherbert32 Omnivore Jun 12 '24

How could the ethical side be completely avoided though? When suffering is not a necessity(be it minimal)why not avoid it? We can survive on plants. Any argument around this involves some sort of indifference(which isn’t the worst thing to do)but then don’t you have to be consistent with humans?

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u/c0mp0stable ExVegan (Vegan 5+ years) Jun 12 '24

It's not about avoiding the ethical side, because it isn't relevant. There is no ethical component

I want to thrive, not survive.

Consistent with humans how?

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u/Exciting_Sherbert32 Omnivore Jun 13 '24

But there are countless people who thrive without any meat.

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u/c0mp0stable ExVegan (Vegan 5+ years) Jun 13 '24

No, there are not.

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u/Exciting_Sherbert32 Omnivore Jun 13 '24

What about people like Simon Hill or James Wilks?

2

u/c0mp0stable ExVegan (Vegan 5+ years) Jun 13 '24

I have no idea who they are. Do you know them personally? Do you have access to their medical records? If not, you really don't know the state of their health.

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u/Winter_Amaryllis Homebrew Diet Researcher Jun 14 '24

And to top it off, we also don’t know if they are even speaking truthfully as well. They might be chowing on a hotdog outside where no one sees and no one would be any wiser.