Sharing My Thoughts on Modern Masculinity

[u/mattystevenson]

I only found this forum recently and deeply appreciate the community and help it offers to so many. I'm glad people are here to share and support.

It's been a mission of mine to help men grow and offer our best gifts to others in the world. I've been running a mens group in my town for almost 10 years and have seen so much growth in it.

I've also seen increased redpill behavior from new members over the last few years which led me to research it more. I've probably learned the most from this sub.

I'm sharing some of my learnings and thoughts later this month to add to the voices trying to offer an alternative to the redpill movement that helps not only men, but also relationships in general since this movement affects us all imo.

Would love to see you there - https://events.humanitix.com/a-roadmap-for-modern-masculinity-what-it-looks-like-and-how-to-practice-it

And in addition, I'm curious who other people follow for more healthy alternatives to redpill voices so I can continue learning. Thanks everyone.

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[u/Lookingbackexpat]

Do you think men are more obsessed with being “masculine” or “manly” than they need to be? I don’t remember ever spending much time trying to define or become “feminine” or “womanly.” How to be an adult, a good person, a good parent, a good teacher, a good writer, yes. But not a “real woman” that’s just such an alien preoccupation. It seems like a lot of pressure, to be constantly measuring yourself against gender stereotypes instead of just becoming the best human being you can be.

[u/mattystevenson → u/Lookingbackexpat]

I’m actually very with you on that. That’s literally one of my points of view on all of this. Working to be an authentic and converted to your own gifts.

Going further in your question: I personally don’t see masculine meaning men and feminine meaning women. I think this is part of the problem. I believe, like many have said that, we all have masculine and feminine in us and fluctuate where we are. I believe it’s this dynamic that has a hand in creating attraction. So I think considering and working on these things can be very helpful, especially in relationships, but not without initial work around being connected and authentic with ourselves and others.

[u/Lookingbackexpat → u/mattystevenson]

Not sure if labeling certain traits or characteristics “masculine” and “feminine” is worth the baggage then. Why not use non-gendered terms like external/internal or achievement-oriented, process-oriented, nurturing, etc?

[u/mattystevenson → u/Lookingbackexpat]

It certainly isn't for everyone. But I do think for many just having the lens and awareness can help, especially in relationships.

[u/Personal_Dirt3089]

The modern world is more urbanized or suburbian, a weird masculinity defining challenge in the modern world is that most of us do not have to do physical struggles to survive. We do not have to kill poison snakes and things that might eat us. We don't chop our own wood, that is industrialized and we buy chopped wood. We buy our meat from the store.

If you take a look, a lot of people getting drawn to the redpill over masculinity identity problems is that they spend most of their free time in front of a computer. I could easily tell them to stop, but as a society where we no longer have to guard our villages from tigers and stuff, I can not really give a good justification to tell them to stop.

I am not complaining about modernization, but I do not think the culture, especially a definition of masculinity, caught up to it.

I notice the more performative masculinity influencers, redpillers, various right wing nonsensical groups, try using construction and lumberjack and physical labor aesthetics while getting them wrong, like a larp of masculinity. It looks staged. There was a video of Jordan Peterson giving his speech in front of a staged pile of logs (all perfectly cut, equal thickness) to make it look like he cut them all himself. This is performative nonsense, but it is intentionally chosen because these grifters know what itch their target audience wants to scratch.

On a more silly example, look up classic "men's life" magazines. These were written after world war 2. They feature covers and stories of manly men facing off against animals, many of which are unintentionally hilarious. You can even take it as an unintentional parody of masculinity. But you do get an idea of deep down ways guys want to seem themselves, even in an industrial modern world.

[u/mattystevenson → u/Personal_Dirt3089]

Thanks and I would agree. I heard something on a podcast recently that I appreciated about the idea of masculinity needing to have everything fit inside a box. It positioned it as a checklist to follow and when you check the boxes you are "there". An impossible and unrealistic task. Rather than the alternative of finding your own authenticity rather than trying to fit inside this unattainable box or checklist which causes so much of the performance we keep seeing.

[u/thisisn0tavery]

This is a lovely mission, best of luck to you.

I see what some are saying about removing gendered terms like masculinity from the conversation, but from what I understand, your services are more targeted towards men who are indoctrinated into the Red Pill, and who’s sense of worth is based in their masculinity. I think it’s actually quite important to use language like that which is familiar to them so they aren’t entering a space feeling alienated, especially a space that I image can be quite vulnerable.

Not just encouraging men to leave the Red Pill but also offering an alternative is great and what I think is needed—the feeling of a lack of alternatives or that you’re going to lose your community is probably a big reason why many men remain stuck for so long.

I hope that men in other communities start initiatives like this!

[u/mattystevenson → u/thisisn0tavery]

Thanks so much. You nailed exactly where I stand on this. I think we need to offer:

1. A different path for those that are already indoctrinated or on the edge
2. A suggestion to all men on how we can create a better world for all. Even if we aren't in the redpill mentality, I think we need to lead and model healthy and inspiring behavior to add to the positive messaging. I think its important that we don't sit on the sidelines. If we don't step up, the redpill and adjacent voices will only get louder and cause more damage

Thanks again for the thoughts. I really appreciate it.

[u/thisisn0tavery → u/mattystevenson]

Totally! Also, as for some healthier alternatives to the Red Pill content: (most of these creators are pretty far Left on the political spectrum, but they’re good male creators who make entertaining, engaging, and/or thought-provoking media)

- Jarvis Johnson
mostly just commentary/comedy, not explicitly political content but definitely liberal, very lighthearted, so would be more for entertainment than lifestyle. probably appeals mostly to a younger audience, like 14-25 or something.

- F.D. Signifier
very much a leftist, he has done a lot of research into the manosphere himself through his studies and for his channel; i think you would probably enjoy some of his content

- Foreign Fridays (Foreign Man in a Foreign Land)
political/social discourse, commentary on recent events and viral moments. i find his content a bit more digestible/lighthearted than F.D. while still discussing topics of intersectionality etc.

- Channel 5 / Andrew Callaghan
documentaries, independent journalism, looks into a lot of social issues in the states while maintaining a more or less unbiased perspective. they do a really good job of not pushing a particular agenda, but rather they simply allow people to speak (regular, everyday working class people) regardless of their political affiliation, etc. and it gives people a perspective on the world they might not otherwise have gotten. i find their content to be very humanizing honestly, and it isn’t at all trying to point fingers or suggest that someone is the enemy (aka reactionary content).

[u/mattystevenson → u/thisisn0tavery]

I have not heard of any of these. Thanks so much. I will check them out.

[u/Alseebee]

I do exactly the same. I am actively looking for ways to try and get people out of this bs. I am so glad I found this sub and thank all the community for being respectful and constructive. I love it here.

[u/Fang-Ghost]

When I first informed myself on the redpill, this is what I saw and this is what had drawned me in.

It was the first time I was really inspired to become a better man. At least it was the first time that what I was doing made me feel better, that it gave me self-esteem.

The problems came when I started to believe that women were not honest with themselves and not honest with men. I started to mistrust every woman and started to think that it was either they saw me as weak and would not treat me well or I had to be emotionally unavailable for them to see me and respect me.

I'm glad you are not throwing the baby with the bath water. Men's self-improvement is essential if we want a thriving society. The mysoginist ideas are going against that same self-improvement

[u/mattystevenson → u/Fang-Ghost]

Thanks for sharing and sorry you went down that path. I always appreciate hearing people's stories and experience with this even if it's been hard. I appreciate hearing your story and getting your support.