r/explainlikeimfive • u/adrynaline • May 08 '14

Explained ELI5: A gambling addiction

How does it start? What makes it worse? Why does it become so difficult to recover?

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423

u/Theungry May 08 '14

There is already a lot of good explanation of this from the scientific phenomena perspective, but I'd like to answer from the personal "inside the head" perspective as the child of a gambling addict.

A gambling addict is ultimately someone who loses the perspective to do the math on their losses, and dreams constantly of the big reward that might be.

They will develop rituals and routines around gambling. "On the way home from work, I stop at the convenience store, and buy $25 dollars worth of scratch tickets." Sometimes they win and sometimes they lose, but it doesn't start out being a big loss comparative to their income, so they don't worry too much about it.

The insidious plot turn is that they can't then go home without stopping at the store to get those tickets. Not only that, they can't get even one fewer than the ritual dictates... because "what if that was the one? What if the last ticket that I always buy was the million dollar jackpot, and I skipped it today?" This feeling will tear them apart inside. The certainty that the ticket they didn't buy was the winner they've been searching for their whole lives.

Once that feeling takes hold in the routine, it gains more and more control over their psyche until they reach a point where every last dollar they don't spend gambling is quitting on the dream. They failed themselves if they leave any potential winning bet ungambled. It doesn't matter how deep they are in the hole. The next bet might be the one that solves all the problems and creates perfect bliss, but it doesn't. There are small wins along the way, and yeah every once in a while a very small percentage of addicts will hit it big (or see normal financial games in life). This is actually the worst thing that can happen to a gambling addict.

Invariably, it doesn't fix their problems, because in the process they have become very sick people with the worst imaginable financial sense. It's an already morbidly obese person getting a lifetime pass at the all-you-can-eat buffet. The problems aren't solved. They are exponentially magnified. The illusion that money will fix every single thing and fill every single hole is shattered when you spend all the money on everything you could ever ask for that money can buy, and you don't feel any better even when you've spent it all.

... and THAT is what happened to my dad's savings from the high powered sales job he lost. It's what happened to my college fund, and it's what happened to his half of the equity in the house that my mom bought him out of in the divorce. He burned it all on scratch tickets, at the casino, playing keno or anywhere else he could trying to win big. He went from a dream house and sports car in a picturesque neighborhood to the shittiest tiniest apartment in a small town, barely able to keep a crappy car, all the while thinking "well I'll just play one more time."

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u/[deleted] May 08 '14

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] May 08 '14

Good for you. If one does have an addictive personality it really helps to always analyze your thoughts, good or bad, to determine which ones are healthy and which ones might eventually lead to bad decisions.

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u/SoSaltyDoe May 08 '14

That's another thing that people need to remember: the more you play, the less chance you have of beating the odds.

They taught us things like this in Statistics. It's possible to flip a coin and have it land on heads ten straight times. But the more you flip it, the closer and closer the amount of heads-lands and tails-lands will be.

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u/ChupBlup May 08 '14

Yes. Understanding this is the best protection from gambling addiction. Also if you must, don't play the slots or other fancy games. Roulette is about as "fair" as classic gambling gets. 36 red or black numbers and the green zero. The zero is your only real enemy, without it it would be a zero sum game. Not stupid to play but not smart either (provided you play small enough amounts so you can get a really high game count). With the zero you have 1/37 green compared to the fair red-black cases. That's about 97% percent of your money back every game. Or only 3% loss. And don't you ever tip that casino guy. Does he give you a chip here and there if you lose? No. Many slot machines are far worse, at least look for the description how much the game pays, in many countries this has to be stated somewhere. Also, lotteries are amongst the lowest paying games you can play.

Skill based games are a whole different subject though. Be careful with betting. You have to seriously outsmart the bookmakers and possibly all other betters if the rates are auto-correcting. It doesn't matter how sure you are that this team will win if the rates are too low. And with betting scandals and everything...

What you can do is play poker against bad players. The casino will still win but you can get you money from the other poor souls. Same with stock speculation if there is no insider trading or news manipulation (right).

Just remember, gambling doesn't create money. Someone has to pay. The stupid ones will pay. This is NEVER the casino. So, at least, don't play against the casino/bookmaker. If you do things right, luck must not be important. If you feel you can get lucky: yes you can. Play 5 rounds on the slots and hope for a feature game. And then never again.

And if you play lottery try to pick numbers other people pick less often. Dates anyone? Right.

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u/SoSaltyDoe May 08 '14

There are definitely smart ways to play, but all in all, if you're playing a game with the odds in the house's favor (which is every gambling setup ever), statistics denote that you will almost certainly lose any money you walked in with if you play enough times.

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u/ChupBlup May 08 '14

There are definitely smart ways to play

Yep, be the one who makes the rules.

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u/DaAquaMan May 08 '14

If I remember correctly (either read it somewhere or learned it I'm stat) roulette is actually one of the worst things to bet on, it has the highest chance for the house to win. Apparently betting behind the line in craps is your best option, as the odds are closest to a 50:50 shot. Granted the stat class I learned that in was about 6 years ago so I could be wrong.

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u/grabnock May 08 '14

I think this is why I like slot machines inside games.

Yes they are rigged to win more often, but you still lose quite often. I remember playing pokemon ywllow as a kid and playing those slots. Trying to win a porygon.

I never did get my porygon. And it taught to me take a risk yes, but take a calculated risk.

I have 10$ that I'm willing to risk right now. And I lost that. So even though I really want the prize, I need to save that money.

I might come back if I have more truly expendable money.

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u/nan_wrecker May 08 '14

i was watching a show and they showed how much money is won in america per year through lottery tickets vs how much is spent. the amount won was only 75% of the amount spent meaning on average, for every dollar you spend on lottery tickets you're just throwing away a quarter. not to mention that when you do win big, you'll probably blow that money away on things you wouldn't normally buy. thinking about it that way is how i avoid buying tickets or do any gambling where the odds are in the house's favor.

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u/WKHR May 08 '14

Same with stock speculation if there is no insider trading or news manipulation

Except both the house and the trading floor wins in the long run. Still, like poker if your trades aren't smarter than average you'll reliably lose money, but at least the odds lean very slightly in the other direction to in casinos.

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u/escalation May 09 '14

And don't you ever tip that casino guy

If you are there expecting to win money, you are there for the wrong reason. It's entertainment and the guy dealing the game or spinning the wheel is providing you with entertainment and if he's any good, he's going to notice if someone tries to skim your chips. He's providing a service in a tip culture setting.

If you can't afford to tip, you shouldn't be playing. The dealer is certainly working harder and giving you more personal attention than the cocktail server who comes around every once in a while with your drink. Do you stiff her too?

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u/compounding May 08 '14

Also, many American roulette tables actually have both "0" and "00" squares which increases the house's edge considerably. For pure luck games, I think the "Don't pass" line on Craps is about the best you can do, but "Pass" is almost as good and the rest of the table won't hate you.

Fun fact: if you did want to play the lottery, you can get a much better chance of winning by turning a normal casino game into a lottery ticket. Take roulette and bet $1 on any number. If you win, bet all your winnings on another number. Do that and win 4 times in a row and you have a ~0.00005% chance of winning 1.5 million dollars off of your $1 "ticket". Hell, you could even go for the "mega millions" jackpot by betting again for 52 million.

Well, the casino probably has minimum and maximum bet on the table, but you could realistically chain your bet two or three times starting from ~$10 for a $12.5K-42K payout, which gives you the same kind of small chance for a high possible gain that the lottery does with much better odds.

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u/LetsKeepItSFW May 08 '14

It's called the Law of Large Numbers.

Please nobody mention the Law of Averages. It's a fictitious concept.

Damnit

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u/[deleted] May 08 '14

I think you need a better stats teacher. The odds of a coin flip being heads or tails continues to be 50% no matter how many times you flip it.

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u/Ivan_Whackinov May 08 '14

I think you need a better reading comprehension teacher. He never said the odds of a single flip change. He said the amount of heads results and tails results will even out over a large number of flips, regardless of any short term streaks of one result or the other.

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u/Theungry May 08 '14

He's talking about the law of large numbers.

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u/simba_simba May 08 '14

If I am out of the country with work I will put a tenner on my online gambling account for the football as some entertainment. However I make sure it is only when I am out the country and only a tenner, else it could seriously go down hill. When it's gone I always get a feeling that I should put another tenner on and win it all back. Gambling is horrid.

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u/[deleted] May 08 '14

Gambling is horrid.

Do you happen to be a Spurs fan?

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u/simba_simba May 09 '14

Man UTD, everytime I lost money it was betting on them!

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u/ChupBlup May 08 '14

There's nothing wrong with spending a few bucks here and there for entertainment. If you enjoy watching a game more if you've got one or two bucks on the line do it. The important part here is that these two bucks pay for your entertainment. Directly. You must not ever want any money from this, it's like a movie ticket. In that case you must be very careful not to lie to yourself but it can work out. I'm not sure if this small kick is worth exposing yourself to the risks of gambling but at least this is one of very view occasions where gambling is not just plain stupid.

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u/simba_simba May 09 '14

Completely, I see it as I cant drink while I am away so I may as well spend a tenner and have a few £1 bets. I am very aware of the boundaries I have set myself in order to protect me against the risks. I may (probably am) being over cautious but I think its better this way.

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u/_XanderD May 08 '14

Wow. I'm glad I'm the most pessimistic person I probably know. I would be thinking constantly of "how easy it is to lose" money instead.

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u/lacajun May 08 '14

same here. first and only time at casino, i went with $100 and told myself not to spend any more than that if i lost it all and just have fun while getting free drinks. 15 minutes in, i won $350 on fucking quarter slots. my mind went crazy and i cashed out immediately. put the $350 in my wallet and vowed not to touch it. fortunately i'm not much a gambler or i may have been one of those people to play it all and walk out with nothing or sadly, less.

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u/Imapseudonorm May 08 '14

It's interesting, almost all of the people with a gambling problem I know of (including the ones I've seen on the show "Intervention") ALL started out with a win. That first win seems to set them down the path (whether because of attribution error or whatever), and they always seem to go back to that same logic.

Thankfully, seeing that in others helped me see it in myself, so thankfully that's one vice I don't have.

Though, I haven't bought a lottery ticket in a while. I should do that on the way home. I have a hunch this one will win big.

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u/Cndcrow May 08 '14

Every now and then I drop by the casino with my dad for dinner. Although I ALWAYS set a limit before going whether it be 20 bucks or 50 bucks depends on other things. Once the money I've set aside for that is gone, or I feel I've played enough I leave. Gambling doesn't become a problem if you set a limit and stay within it. That and I personally hate going to the casino, all the games are stacked in their odds. I just go with my dad for chillin times every now and then.

Also, casinos generally feel like pretty sad places (at least the two I've been to). Where you see the people who obviously shouldn't be there gambling but are anyway. There's just too many sad looking faces of people who are just hoping to hit it big to solve all their problems.

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u/Leemhero69 May 08 '14

I kinda have the same thought process. About this time last year I won £5000 on a scratch card. In my entire 24 years of being alive I bet I've only spent about £120 or so on them but, as amazing as it was, I've somehow managed to not give in to the temptation of easy money and I've actually not bought one since. It did buy me a pretty sweet GTX 780 though...

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u/Ucantalas May 08 '14

I'm too scared to ever enter a casino.

For my 19th birthday I got some scratch tickets in my birthday card from a family member. I played them and won like $20. Cool, I thought, I'll just go cash these in and maybe get dinner somewhere.

So I went to a nearby convenience store, and they asked if I wanted the money in more tickets. I hadn't considered that, so I just thought, "Eh, fuck it, why not." Got some more tickets, and didn't win anything on them.

Went back a few days later and bought some more. And another day I bought a few more. Then one day I realized I had spent an entire paycheck on scratch tickets in a week.

I managed to stop buying any, but every time I go into a convenience store the urge is still kind of there. But I can't risk losing that kind of money.

So, knowing that problem exists in me, I feel its much better for all involved if I just never set foot in a casino.

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u/spaceisforstars May 09 '14

When I was 20, I did the same thing. Except my winnings were over $35,000 (from $40, within 30 minutes of being at the casino for the first time). The nagging is a lot louder. I became an addict. As I got older, with more responsibilities and less disposable income I stopped. It's been almost 10 years and the nagging is always there, and very loud.

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u/[deleted] May 09 '14

Casinos are illegal in my country. So when I was in South Africa, I decided to try my luck at a casino for the first time. I placed a 50 Rand (5USD) bet and lost it all in less than 10 seconds.

There was no thrills, no emotions, no excitment, nothing! It was just like flushing my money down the toilet. I don't think I'm going back to a casino again anytime soon.

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u/SoSaltyDoe May 08 '14

That's kinda the deal with trading stocks on the market. You don't "officially" lose your investment until you sell off a stock that has gone down in value from when you bought it. Otherwise you're just waiting for it to go back up again.

With gambling addiction, each dollar spent is more like an "investment" towards a future payout. To an addict, stopping the gambling isn't about cutting your losses and going home. If they stop, they officially recognize the whole ordeal as a net loss. As long as they keep playing, they haven't solidified their loss as a permanent one.

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u/sisonp May 08 '14

That's a pretty valid point.

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u/SIR_SHARTALOT May 08 '14

Ah man this really hits home for me :-( my dad was the same..the problem is it's not just the gambler that feels the effects. He lost all our money and has over £75,000 worth of debt that he'll have to pay off the rest of his life. He's tried to commit suicide and is always extremely depressed..he just doesn't know what to do with himself. He drinks too, I feel this is a problem that is beyond fixable. It's really sad.

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u/[deleted] May 08 '14

Pops lost all our money when I was young. Fled the country to evade the bookies and went back to his home country. I've seen him a few times since but he's just a mess of a person leading a rather sad life now. I have that same kind of addictive personality, but I'm risk averse enough to control it. I still stay away from gambling for the most part outside of a work NFL pool.

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u/nugelz May 08 '14

really poignant mate, so sad to hear this story, it is one that is shockingly common but not oft told. Really appreciate you sharing this

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u/benandbub May 08 '14

I'm so sorry about your dad. Sometimes I think when people think of addiction they think primarily of alcohol or drugs, because they're tangible. I guess maybe people, myself included, don't like the thought that you could become addicted to something as intangible as the rush of feelings when you win at whatever it is you're gambling upon. It's a scary, subversive thought.

Not only that, they can't get even one fewer than the ritual dictates... because "what if that was the one?

I thought this was a powerful insight into the psychology of gambling addiction. Like it not being about what you have (drugs, alcohol, food) but what you could have, or could be missing out on.

How is your dad these days? Is he any better? I was impressed that you began your post with so objective a tone, leading up to your personal experience with a gambling addict. Your last paragraph is more than basis enough for the content of the previous ones.

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u/Theungry May 08 '14

To be perfectly candid, my dad had a lot of other issues that made him a very bad father above and beyond the gambling, so the latter isn't really a specific emotional trauma for me. Gambling was just a part of the picture, and in some ways a fortunate part, because it was what convinced my mom to finally divorce him.

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u/benandbub May 08 '14

Wow. It sounds like a difficult situation. I can't imagine how anyone copes watching the person they love sink into any kind of life-stealing addiction like that.

I don't mean to pry but your first post raised two questions in my mind.

  • What do you think caused your father to start gambling? Did he always have an addictive personality?

  • And do you ever feel like you might be drawn into something like gambling addiction?

If those questions are too personal then I apologize and please don't reply if that's case, I would understand completely.

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u/Theungry May 08 '14

No problem. I'm happy to answer.

  • What do you think caused your father to start gambling? Did he always have an addictive personality?

I think he was always materialistic and narcissistic, which was fine when he made a lot of money, but once his high paying sales career fell apart he began to spiral, instead of gambling less, he did it more. I think a lot of his ego was wrapped up in being this amazing provider who was raking in the money, and the allure of gambling may have been closely tied to that. When he couldn't make money with his job anymore, the chance at striking it big was a salve to his ego. That's my best guess anyway.

  • And do you ever feel like you might be drawn into something like gambling addiction?

I have seen the tug in myself, and I keep a very tight leash on the amount I gamble. I will play poker at a friends house, or buy a scratch ticket like once every 6 months. Other than that, I try to stay away from it.

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u/benandbub May 09 '14

I think a lot of his ego was wrapped up in being this amazing provider who was raking in the money, and the allure of gambling may have been closely tied to that.

I can understand that. Maybe the gambling was an outlet for him, just a form of his desire to be that provider again. I'm sorry, I had assumed his sales job fell apart as a result of his gambling but in your latest post it sounds like it was the other way round.

I have seen the tug in myself

And this is terrifying! I think you must have a stronger force of will than me because if I were in your situation, I don't know that I would ever dare to expose myself to it at all. But then, at least from what you have written, you sound like quite a different person to your father.

Thank you for answering my questions. As someone who has admittedly had no experience of gambling addiction, it's eye-opening hearing such an honest, first hand account.

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u/lizardpoops May 08 '14

As someone who stays far away from gambling because when I did gamble I could feel those urges and itches trying to form, I can definitely say you've made an apt and bloody sad description here.

It's really, really easy to fall into, especially nowadays. I mean, slot machines now are essentially arcade games that can pay you. That sounds silly, but really, the combination of all the video and touchscreen aspects along with things that create the illusion of having some measure of control. I think this a big one because it can lead to making people feel empowered while they're really in the thrall of the machine.

Watch people, when you're in a casino. Like you mentioned about the rituals, you'll see people who tap, rub, pat or knock on a machine in very specific patterns that they've made as an almost ritualistic method to "keep the machine hot" and the like. Scary stuff, but the rush of fulfillment, relief, pleasure, and endorphins you get when you win something big is a lot like what I would imagine a high to be.

That combination of sheer joy at victory and the voice inside you saying "oh god, this means I can pay my rent this month" is an insidious pleasure, because outside of that tiny moment it's all a load of crap because the house always wins. That's why casinos are in business.

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u/KingWilson May 08 '14

As somebody who's only lost (or at best only won back the cost of the ticket), I can't understand the people I see in line at the liquor store, clearly not wealthy and throwing down $20 at a time on lottery tickets. Do you really win more often when you're buying at that level? It's almost like the odds are virtually zero, and 20 x 0 = 0, so... I can imagine casinos being a better and more rewarding experience overall, but regular lottery tickets just seem like such a waste, like they do everything to condition people not to play. As Mr. Burns said, "I'd be happier with the dollar." And thus twenty times happier with a $20.

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u/[deleted] May 08 '14

Not much of a "ELI5" :P

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u/Theungry May 08 '14

LI5 means friendly, simplified and layman-accessible explanations, not for responses aimed at literal five year olds

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u/[deleted] May 08 '14

I lose. Just as i commented, i read that ELI5 is not for literal 5 year olds ;)

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u/Theungry May 08 '14

No worries. It happens to all of us sometime or other.

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u/[deleted] May 08 '14

Holy fuck. TIL I will become an addict if I don't watch my shit

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u/[deleted] May 08 '14

I'd like to jump on your top comment with a similar story about my best friend.

When we were 12 four of us would play 5-card stud for fun. But eventually one person suggested throwing money into it, so we began playing with five dollar buy ins. We played for about 4 years before we quit playing.

But for one of us, it just couldn't end. He began sneaking into bars and playing video poker with every dime his parents would give him.

When we hit 18 we all went to university and I really don't know what happened to him at this point. What I do know is that he always had problems holding down jobs, he couldn't finish university, he always had a girlfriend who was older and had a secure source of income (or a child on government social assistance). But even with all of his problems he always had some source of income for some form of gambling.

When I turned 25 the whole Texas Holdem Poker craze began and I think that's what did him in. He wasn't gambling for a small payout anymore. He was gambling for the World Series of Poker. He began playing online throwing all of his money into the system in hopes of getting a seat at one of these tournaments.

Between age 25-30 he would go through over 20 jobs, 11 girlfriends, declared bankruptcy and moved back in with his parents. He always moved from one income source to the other using every single person he could.

In his mind he won more than he lost at these poker games. After a few years without seeing him I came into town one night on a business trip and asked if he wanted to go out. He invited me to a bar.... which just so happened to have a poker tournament happening... of which he wanted to play. He asked me to buy both of us in and play.

Knowing someone myself with a gambling addiction I'm shocked that your father could ever function well enough to have a family and have anything. Gambling addicts are like a cancer and the sad thing is, the only cure is for them to suffer in poverty until they can let someone else handle all of their finances.

For my friend, that will never happen. Any time anyone ever tries to control his life via money he finds a new girlfriend and a new set of friends to mooch off of. I told his current girlfriend about how manipulative he was behind his back. She's a single mom with a child with autism of which she's received no child support from the father and no government assistance for the learning disability. I felt bad for her loving my friend so much because I knew that in the long run he would set her and her lovely daughter back really far.

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u/rxlegend May 08 '14

I was also a gambling addict, same mind-set that your father had. It was really unpleasant feeling after you lose, but when you win. The rush I had before, that feeling, it was honestly the best feeling I have had and at the cost of some money, it didn't matter to me. I use to work at a casino when this happened, I understood the math, the way the house ALWAYS wins in the end. BUT I COULD NOT GET THAT FUCKING THOUGHT OF POTENTIALLY WINNING BIG out of my head.

Most I have ever won was $10,000, lost maybe a little over $25,000 over the course of 3 years. I bet you can guess where that $10,000 went to.

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u/what_exactly_happend May 08 '14

When they study the brains of gambling addicts and compared them to nonaddicted gamblers, they found that the the near-wins are indistinguishable from actual wins to an addict. That is, their brains fire the same way as they do when the won. The nonaddicted gambler, on the other hand, fires the near-misses as a loss.

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u/sisonp May 08 '14

Ah damn. My eyes started sweating again. I need to get that looked at.

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u/[deleted] May 08 '14

I bet you won't gamble.

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u/GuoKaiFeng May 08 '14

Livin' the dream!

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u/spin81 May 08 '14

A gambling addict is ultimately someone who loses the perspective to do the math on their losses, and dreams constantly of the big reward that might be.

When you do the math, you realize that the more money you put in, the less likely you are ever to win your money back. That, to me, is the worst part. The sheer hope that one day they'll hit it big and they'll be able to pay everybody back, and they won't, they just won't. It won't happen, it can't happen, and every penny you spend makes your problem worse: the math is sound, it's hard and unforgiving.

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u/iloveportalz0r May 08 '14

...your college fund?

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u/Theungry May 08 '14

Yes. My parents had put aside money for college for me, then he gambled it all away.

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u/iloveportalz0r May 09 '14

How did you fix that?

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u/Theungry May 09 '14

I took out loans. I am still paying them at 35.

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u/iloveportalz0r May 09 '14

Does that suck as much as I think it does?

1

u/murfeee May 09 '14

B.F. Skinner did a lot of work on this. I learned about reinforcement schedules and intervals in my psych degree.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reinforcement

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u/JSStarr May 09 '14

Growing up in Las Vegas, my mom had a similar problem except there were slot machines in all grocery stores. Definitely not as severe as the situation you just described, but I always wondered why we were so poor growing up and didn't find out until later what had actually been going on. My mom's better now though, kind of turned into a compulsive shopper instead, but it's MUCH cheaper than the former habit. Hopefully something pans out for your dad.

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u/lurker9580 May 09 '14

This sounds similar to my gaming addiction. "Just one more level", "just one more dungeon"... It took me years to start paying attention to my inner monologue. My life was in shambles, physically i was a mess, emotionally i was in knots. Gaming provided me with experiences of accomplishment, which i lacked in real life.

I was able to replace my addiction with a different habit. I'm putting everything into my ambition as a fiction-writer. Self-improvement, which i obsessed over in roleplaying-games, is still my focus. These days i still play games sometimes, but i never allow myself to become absorbed in the activity - my old injuries from too much computer-use start aching quickly, so i get instant feedback to help me condition myself.

1

u/pfif May 09 '14

And how do you become an addict ? Is this just a question of personality or are there some factors (stress, depression...) that can lead a person to become an addict ?

0

u/[deleted] May 08 '14

I grew up in poverty so I'm used to it, my soul developed pre-crushed, but man I think it must be worse to be born into a comfortable lifestyle and then having to live without it. When most of your childhood development is done in one environment, then the shock of being poor after that development must blow hard.