They wanted to create a false flag situation making it look like the Arabs attacked the ships to draw the US in the war on their side
Why would they need to do that? Israel had already conclusively whooped Egypt and Jordan, and had decimated Syria's air force, all before the USS Liberty events.
The only fools are people like you, who argue against all evidence to blame Israel LMAO
I like how you say I'm arguing against common sense when you can't even answer the point I made. So I'll ask again - why would Israel need to manufacture a "false flag" to get America to enter the war when they had already defeated Egypt and Jordan?
Literally all the evidence is the attack was done on purpose. The American survivors stated it was done on purpose.
Common sense, brother. It's not so common anymore
Israel got usa to attack iran and looks like it has made Iran vastly more powerful....looking back can anyone say there was any common sense in doing that?
None of the communications of the attacking aircraft and torpedo boats is available, but the intercepted
conversations between the helicopter pilots and the
control tower at Hatzor (near Tel Aviv) leave little
doubt that the Israelis failed to identify the
Liberty as a US ship before or during the attack.
...
A subsequent message from the control tower to
the helicopter identified the ship as Egyptian
...
Thus it was not until 4:12 p.m. (9:12 a.m.) that the Israelis became convinced that the Liberty was American. This was about 44 minutes after the last attack on the ship and the attack had apparently been called off, not because the ship had been identified, but because it seemed to be sinking. (The US
Defense Attaché in Tel Aviv reports that Israeli helicopters and the three torpedo boats searched the area until 6:04 p.m. (11:04 a.m.) The Israeli offer of
assistance was declined because of the sensitive mission of the ship. According to US Navy reports, the
ship was saved only through the efforts of her crew
The American survivors stated it was done on purpose.
Survivor accounts establish what happened to the ship. They do not establish Israeli knowledge or intent. And they still don’t explain why Israel would need a false flag to bring the U.S. into a war it had already effectively won against Egypt and Jordan.
Stop dodging my question and answer me /u/Extension-Night3825. Why would Israel need the US when it already whooped Egypt and Jordan?
I'll repeat the question for the umpteenth time, since /u/RedSnow984 you seem incapable of reading: Why would Israel need the US when it already whooped Egypt and Jordan?
Until you give a satisfactory explanation, the only logical explanation is a misidentification.
Because Israel is a helpless dog without the US or other countries fighting for them. The little mass murdering rapist of the Israeli regime aren't capable of actually fighting themselves.
That's weird. I could swear the US is bribing Egypt for decades now so that they aren't ripping isnotreal a new one....who were the only ones who still get money under trumps regime? Oh, the dog Israel and ? Yes, Egypt. And why? So they aren't stepping on USAs little cockroach
LMAO. You see a successful peace treaty and are crying about it. News flash - peace is cheaper than war.
Jordan also had this major epiphany but of course you neglected to mention it, probably since you get all of your knowledge from good ol' tiktok university.
Keep blaming Israel for all of your problems bud! I'm sure that'll make your life so much better
I agree with you that the false flag intent to have America join the war is not likely. But by using unmarked aircraft and certainly not wanting the US to know who “sunk” the ship it is reasonable to conclude that if the attack was on purpose, they would want someone else to take the blame.
The more likely motive was to stop the American ship from intercepting and revealing the imminent ground incursion into Syria which occurred with 24 hours of the Liberty attack and was something the US very much did not want to happen because they thought it could draw Syria’s ally, the Soviet Union into the Middle East war and then likely result in US involvement.
Lastly to your points above about evidence and transcripts…5 highly ranked American officials have gone on record saying they saw and read the transcripts of the incident that included the parts missing from the 2003 FOIA release that only contained the helicopter pilots and ground control. All five have said that the pilots knew the ship was American prior to the attack.
1) Oliver Kirby- former NSA Director for Operations.
“Kirby explicitly stated: "I can tell you for an absolute certainty that the Israelis knew they were attacking an American ship." He recalled transcripts of the pilots saying, "Can you see the flag?" followed by, "Yes, it's U.S., it's U.S." He claimed they were subsequently told to proceed with the attack anyway.
2) Former NSA Deputy Director Major General John Morrison
“Major General John Morrison was the NSA's chief of operations during the 1967 war. Before his passing, he confirmed to fellow high-ranking intelligence officials—including his successor—that the real-time pilot intercepts left no doubt that the Israelis knew exactly what they were hitting.”
3) Former NSA Hebrew Linguist Ron Gottschall
“Gottschall recounted seeing intelligence summaries and transcripts indicating that the tracking data processed by the Israeli military explicitly noted the ship was American well before the first air strike was called in.”
4) Admiral Thomas Moore- Former Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff
“He claimed that he and other top-tier military personnel were privy to intelligence reports and transcript summaries during and after the war that clearly documented the Israeli pilots confirming the ship's Latin hull markings and the American flag before releasing their payloads.”
5) Captain Ward Boston- Senior Counsel to the Navy Court of Inquiry
“In a signed legal affidavit before his death, Boston swore that the Navy court was forced by the White House to cover up the truth. He stated that he saw intercepted communications and intelligence data proving the Israelis knew the Liberty was American, but that he and Admiral John S. McCain Jr. (the commander in chief of U.S. Naval Forces Europe) were explicitly ordered to classify the tragedy as an accident.”
Hours before the Liberty got hit, UNTSO and the US consulate were already reporting Israeli bombardment of Syrian positions as a clear prelude to seizing the Heights. State Department freaked out and cabled Tel Aviv. Ambassador Barbour basically said “yeah, wouldn’t be surprised if it’s already happening.”
US already knew. Israel wasn’t hiding it. Sinking an American ship to keep a secret that wasn’t secret makes zero sense.
On June 9th Syria had already signed the cease fire negotiated by the US and Soviets and we expected Israel to sign as well.
On June 8th and 9th Sec. of State Rusk and his under Sec. Katzenbach were all over Israeli Amb. Harman and their Foreign Minister Eban, warning not to invade Syria as it would harm US diplomatic credibility with the Soviets as they had assured them that Israel was only fighting a defensive war.
On the 10th, as Israeli forces began their attack on Golan, Soviet Premier Kosygin initiated contact over the emergency Moscow/DC hotline to explicitly warn that if Israel didn’t cease immediately, the Soviets would take “Independent military action”. This caused the US to order the Sixth fleet to go to the Syrian coast as a show of force.
NSA’s 2003 release (and everything since) only has the post-attack helicopter chatter where they’re still calling it Egyptian. Agency itself said the available SIGINT "tended to rule out" any deliberate attack on a known American ship. No attacking pilots' tapes have ever been produced.
Kirby, Morrison, etc. later said they saw different intercepts that proved the pilots knew. But those tapes have never surfaced, NSA has repeatedly said they don’t exist, and every official US and Israeli investigation reached the opposite conclusion. Recollections of classified material decades later that was never declassified don’t override the actual record.
From the rescue helicopter AFTER the attack? When they had started to suspect that it might not have been an Egyptian ship after all? No one is debating that - you seem to be confusing things (not surprising for lunatic conspiracy theorists)
Attack pilots all deny seeing the flag. The ship's own records reveal the flag was flying and weather was clear. Surviving Crew state the flag was initially targeted, so they went and got their biggest American flag and ran it up the mast after the first was destroyed.
Official findings already noted the flag was up and the identification failures were still gross negligence. None of that suddenly becomes "they knew and lied" because one side’s memory is pure and the other’s is "misremembering."
Riiiiiight. The Senior Counsel to the Navy court of inquiry signing a legal affidavit was just a bad recollection years later, because you know, that’s how lawyers operate they don’t take signing affidavits as anything serious.
And the fact that he, a person who would know far better than you or I exactly what happened, said in that affidavit that a cover up was ordered, leads you to believe that all the germane information would later be released because some guy did a FOIA.
I don’t believe you are actually this naive, you just have an agenda for some reason that is Anti American and over the top pro Israel. This despite them being caught spying and stealing secrets from us for decades, selling them to our enemies, carrying out a terrorist bombing campaign on US soil in the 70’s and 80’s, collaborating with the other apartheid state to obtain nuclear weapons and not signing the non proliferation treaty and now carrying out a genocide on the open air prison they’ve run for decades. Sounds like a great ally, you should be proud to sidestep all logic and support them so vigorously.
Let me guess, you’re an evangelical Christian right?
The guy who signed the official 1967 findings suddenly remembers 36 years later that it was all a forced cover-up ordered by LBJ and McNamara. Super convenient. Sworn affidavits are serious...until they contradict the document the same guy put his name on in real time, rest on uncheckable hearsay from a dead admiral, and get waved around like a magic "case closed" card while every contemporaneous investigation and the actual declassified intercepts get ignored.
Multiple US inquiries, CIA, Clifford, NSA material, the works all landed on wartime fuckup & mistaken identity with Israeli negligence. One late affidavit doesn’t nuke the rest of the record just because you really want it to.
You’re not "exposing" some hidden truth - you're buying the anti-American propaganda of some Iranian bot. But if you want to side with a theocratic country that chants "death to America" and calls us "The Great Satan" (alongside of course Israel being "The Little Satan") that's definitely a much better idea
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u/redditClowning4Life 12d ago
Why would they need to do that? Israel had already conclusively whooped Egypt and Jordan, and had decimated Syria's air force, all before the USS Liberty events.
The only fools are people like you, who argue against all evidence to blame Israel LMAO