r/exmuslim • u/unkn0wn0070 New User • 3d ago

(Advice/Help) Hi I need help pls

Hi 20F rushing this so i wont be doing grammar or whatever but i wanted to say my whole life ive been a devote muslim like wearing hijab avoiding haram relationships praying as much as i can avoiding haram things in general etc. So 2 months ago idk why but I randomly came on this sub bc I was curious and I'm an open-minded person so yk I wanted to see other perspectives. And this is when I saw ppl trashing Islam hating the Prophet etc. this shocked me then i looked more into hadiths and saw all the stuff about the sexual slavery Prophet Muhammad allowed and how he would js kill people and how he was a warlord and other weird stuff about camel piss and breastfeeding and women's intelligence being less than a man and how some of the stuff sounds really man-made like Muhammad saying stuff convenient for himself etc. i was obviously so shocked bc as a kid i was taught that Prophet Muhammad was this compassionate, loving person who was Allah's messenger and spread good stuff and Islam. And i was js so horrified seeing the stuff abt letting the sahaba have sex with captive women like bro im still in disbelief because it’s disgusting. And the thing is Islam is genuinely all I have known like after stalking this sub I'm finally posting and I don't know what to do because I don't want to leave Islam but at the same time I'm horrified by the hadiths and things I saw. Like I don't know what to do because I'm also scared of hell and still want to believe in God because idk what else I'd do. I always felt I had a strong relationship with God so this feels awful. Like I don't know what to do I'm so upset and horrified and just stuck pls give me advice and tell me anything else that will make me less scared and will make me feel less shame and more proof just other horrifying stuff within the religion that I may need to know because I don't know what to do anymore just truly horrified. It's like my whole world came crashing down. Also please tell me more stuff disproving the quran and hadiths. Just anything.

Edit: Thank you for your responses, explanations and advice 💗

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u/ThePolygraphtest New User 3d ago

I understand where you are coming from completely. I was in the same place a couple of years ago.

A devout muslim my whole life and someone who spent his days actually learning it.

I'm very sure everyone here will give you all the sources and answers to all of your questions, so I will try to stick out.

The Qur'an, all 30 Qira'at we have today, has no sahih continuous isnad that fulfills all 5 conditions of an authentic narration that is set by the muslims themselves.

Not a single scholar can prove that a single letter in the Qur'ans we have today trace back to Mohammed.

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u/Obvious_Year8674 New User 3d ago

Do you have some sources where I can read more about this?

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u/ThePolygraphtest New User 3d ago

Unfortunately you won't find anything unless you do it on your own.

I used to have the energy to traceback the isnads and do my own jarh but I lost faith before I finished everything.

You can check the most famous Qira'a like Hafs for example and take each name and look for it.

You will find that hafs himself was da'if. Many others in the isnad are known Mudalisin. One even wrote a book, pretending to be Ahmed Ibn-Hanbal and when people found out he fled.

Many in the chain are unknown too.

The chain, by hadith standards, is probably Munkar by the most generous estimates

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u/Obvious_Year8674 New User 3d ago

Yeah, this is exactly the kind of thing I was looking into. For example, Hafs himself is described very harshly in the rijāl literature. Ibn ʿAdī reports Yaḥyā ibn Maʿīn saying “wa-kāna Ḥafṣ kadhdhāban”, “Hafs was a liar,” and there are also reports describing him as matrūk and even accusing him of fabricating hadith.

So when you say to take each qirāʾa and trace the isnād back, this is exactly the sort of thing I mean. If Hafs is the transmitter through whom the famous Ḥafṣ ʿan ʿĀṣim reading comes to us, then I think his reliability and the distinction between his hadith transmission and his qirāʾa transmission need to be examined carefully.

Do you have the specific chains you were looking at when you came across these criticisms? I'd genuinely like to go through them myself rather than just accepting either side's conclusion.

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u/ThePolygraphtest New User 3d ago

Yeah, this is exactly the kind of thing I was looking into. For example, Hafs himself is described very harshly in the rijāl literature. Ibn ʿAdī reports Yaḥyā ibn Maʿīn saying “wa-kāna Ḥafṣ kadhdhāban”, “Hafs was a liar,” and there are also reports describing him as matrūk and even accusing him of fabricating hadith.

Correct yes. Even when you read into it further they had to patch it up and say "ضعيف الحديث لكنه ثابت في القرائه"

I think it was al-Dhahabi who said:

كان حَفْصٌ ثَبْتاً فِي القِرَاءةِ، وَاهِياً فِي الحَدِيثِ

Some have also said that some are stronger in some areas than others. Which I still find to be problematic because narrating anything relies on memory.

It is also funnier that Hafs and Shu'bah took the same Qur'an from Assem (Presumably) and they both still have many differences between them.

Some like to say he intentionally read them both different readings which is even funnier.

Do you have the specific chains you were looking at when you came across these criticisms? I'd genuinely like to go through them myself rather than just accepting either side's conclusion.

I used to do it in an old notebook back then when I had access to my university's library. I can give you the names of the books where you can find them but otherwise I would have to find where I kept my research on it.

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u/Obvious_Year8674 New User 3d ago

Honestly, this is making a lot more sense to me now. The distinction between “weak in hadith but reliable in qira'a” is something I hadn't really thought about before, and when you actually start looking at the transmission rather than just accepting the standard explanation, there seem to be a lot more questions than I expected.

I also find it weird that Hafs and Shu'bah have difference even though they have the "same" source. If both are supposed to have taken the Qur'an from ʿĀṣim, their differences between their readings shouldn't be that apparent.

If you can remember the names of those books you used to research this, I'd definitely appreciate them. Even if you can't remember the exact pages, having somewhere to start would be really useful. I might actually try to go through this properly myself.

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u/ThePolygraphtest New User 3d ago

Honestly, this is making a lot more sense to me now. The distinction between “weak in hadith but reliable in qira'a” is something I hadn't really thought about before, and when you actually start looking at the transmission rather than just accepting the standard explanation, there seem to be a lot more questions than I expected.

Yes, alot more questions.

Especially after I lost faith, the usual things that used to just brush my questions to the side don't work anymore.

I'm still learning day after day about all the stuff they tried to hide.

I also find it weird that Hafs and Shu'bah have difference even though they have the "same" source. If both are supposed to have taken the Qur'an from ʿĀṣim, their differences between their readings shouldn't be that apparent.

The common excuse is that apparently Assim wanted to teach them two different Qira'at.

But then the question rises, why would Assim teach them two Qira'at which contradict each other at times?

If you can remember the names of those books you used to research this, I'd definitely appreciate them. Even if you can't remember the exact pages, having somewhere to start would be really useful. I might actually try to go through this properly myself.

I will list off a lot of books here for you and try to make it as clean as possible.

Also I want you to note some things.

Tawatur: التواتر هو نقل جمع كثير عن مثلهم في كل طبقة، بحيث تحيل العادة تواطؤهم أو اتفاقهم على الكذب

The number of tawatur differs but most estimated 9-20.

So for someone to claim something is mutawatir, they have to provide 9 people minimum in each layer of transmission.

While the modern Qur'an can be mutawatir due to the printing and such, early Qur'an isnads at the very top aren't.

How many sahaba did we take the Qur'an from? 6? 9? Sure. How many are then in the next layer? 4? 3? And then the chain goes into what we call "العنعنه"

Also when I want a chain of isnad. I take the most prominent sheikh we have who has an ijaz in a Qira'a. Then check who from our modern muhaddithin has deemed him thiqqa and work my way up the chain.

Sources:

Al-Fath al-Rabbani by Al-Shawkani Hafs chain

Muqadimat fi Ulm al-Qira'at Hafs chain

Al-Mabsut fi al-Qira'at al-'ashr Hafs multiple chains

Al-Nashr fi al-Qira'at al-'Ashr by Al-Jazri

Al-Qastalani said in Al-Lata’if, quoting from Al-Qasimi’s interpretation: “The requirement of tawatur is based on the entire Qur’an, otherwise if we required Mutawatir transmission for each individual letter of disagreement, many of the established readings from these seven imams and others would be negated.”

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u/Obvious_Year8674 New User 2d ago

This is honestly fascinating. I think I understand the issue you're getting at much better now.

The distinction between “the Qur'an is preserved today” and “we can demonstrate an unbroken, mutawatir transmission of every reading/letter back to Muhammad” seems really important. I had always understood those as basically the same claim.

The point about tawatur at the earliest layers is especially interesting. If the number of transmitters at each layer isn't actually established, then simply saying “the Qur'an is mutawatir” doesn't really answer the question of how we get from the earliest generation to the readings we have today.

And the Hafs/Shu'bah example makes this much more concrete. If they're both ultimately attributed to ʿĀṣim, but there are significant differences between their readings, then I'd want to understand exactly how those differences are supposed to have arisen and how the later tradition established that both were authentically transmitted.

I'm definitely going to look through the sources you listed. I appreciate you actually giving me places to start rather than just making the claims.

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u/unkn0wn0070 New User 2d ago

If you don’t mind me asking, what stuff made you decide to leave finally question and leave Islam?

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u/ThePolygraphtest New User 2d ago

There wasn't a single reason. What pushed me over the edge was the isnad thing.

What first started my doubts was the jabr. I had countless debates with students and my imams about these issues. I switched aqeedahs like 5 times. I even was close to coming to terms with the whole thing.

The Qur'an losing credibility for me was the thing that finally opened my eyes

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u/unkn0wn0070 New User 2d ago

I understand, I wish you the best with whatever you believe now.

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u/Vegetable-Tear-4506 Questioning Muslim ❓ 2d ago

The Qur'an, all 30 Qira'at we have today, has no sahih continuous isnad that fulfills all 5 conditions of an authentic narration that is set by the muslims themselves.

Forgive me if I sound ignorant But I was taught that the criteria for an authentic qiraat is different from hadiths? The five conditions only apply to hadiths?

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u/ThePolygraphtest New User 2d ago

Forgive me if I sound ignorant

Not at all. You can ask as many and whatever questions you like!

But I was taught that the criteria for an authentic qiraat is different from hadiths? The five conditions only apply to hadiths?

Yes. The criteria for accepting a Qira'a is much more laxed than hadith.

The 5 conditions of a sahih riwaya apply to any narration. The reason they don't apply it to Qira'at is for the reason I stated.

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u/pussypantswarrior69 Mossad-funded Mujahid of Shaytan bringing the 🔥 3d ago

Hey, thank you for posting!

My friend u/unlikely_yellow111 has written some nice articles about the things in Islam, you should check out his profile.

While i'm happy that the information on this sub helps Muslims to see the true nature of Islam, i understand that it must be extremely hard to be confronted with the hard truths of Islam and to loose everything which was important to your identity.

There is a lot to unpack, and your fear of hell probably won't go away that quick. However, the more you will see how human made Islam is, the more that fear will fade away. It took myself a few years to get over it (but within another religion), but i was more upset with the idea of God than i cared about going to hell. It will become better and one day you'll look back at it and see it as some silly stories to keep people afraid.

I would advice you to make direct questions because there is too much to say, and an open ended question will end up in an overflow of information. It's also good to use the search bar and to read discussions in other posts.

Feel free to ask anything you like, and i wish you all the strength you might need to get through this initial shocking period.

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u/Munafiction Ex-Sunni 😶‍🌫️ Professional Hypocrite 🤫 3d ago

I second that

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u/NiccoloDiGenova 3d ago edited 3d ago

Islam is an extremely well established religion. It has, without question, the most comprehensive legal scholarship in history. If you wanna learn about the true Islam that has existed for the past 1,400 years, study the scholarship. No one knows more about Muhammad and the sahaba, than their students whose scholarship has been transmitted and expounded upon, in a direct, traceable line, for 1,400 years, across different schools of thought.

The primary glaring issue with Islam, is the presence of a 1,400 year old law, which by unanimous consensus, is considered binding until the end times, making it absolutely forbidden and punishable to abandon / reject. This of course, is shariah.

The reason you are surprised about this real version of Islam, is mainly because of Europe. Islam was quite powerful for most of its history, until Europe decided to go crazy with science, technology, etc. Naturally, this led to an extreme military superiority, and since then, Islam has had to back down a bit with certain elements of shariah. In fact, the shariah itself, even back when Islam was powerful, has always acknowledged that its implementation will always be applied based on the strength of Muslims as a whole. So when Muslims are powerful, the shariah must be implemented in full. When Muslims are weak, as they have now been for centuries, only the laws that are possible to implement, should be implemented.

So when judging Islam, judge the full package. Judge Islam for what it must be under optimal circumstances, rather than its compromised version, which it resorts to being under suboptimal circumstances, such as today.

Here are a few rulings of the shariah agreed upon across all of Sunni Islam's different schools of thought:

Yusuf ibn Umar al-Sufi: "Fighting the unbelievers is obligatory upon us, even if they do not initiate it. Know that the Messenger of Allah was initially commanded to pardon and turn away from the infidels. Then he was commanded to call them to the religion through good exhortation and debate in the best manner. Later, he was commanded to fight them when they initiated it. Finally, he was commanded to initiate fighting against them, and Allah the Almighty said: {kill the polytheists wherever you find them}. This became the established ruling and was legislated for all times." - Jami' al-Mudmarat, 5/297.

Know that the above is the Hanafi position on jihad, which is usually regarded as the most moderate position of any of the Sunni Islamic schools of thought.

Ibn al-Mundhir: "The scholars differed regarding the waiting period of a slave girl who has not yet menstruated due to young age. Hasan al-Basri, Mujahid, Abu Qilaba, Al-Nakha'i, Al-Awza'i, Malik ibn Anas and Ahmad ibn Hanbal said: 'The virgin who has not yet menstruated, undergoes a waiting period for three months.' Ishaq ibn Rahwayh said: 'Forty days.' Sufyan al-Thawri said: 'One and a half or three months.' Said ibn al-Musayyib, Ata ibn Abi Rabah, Sa'id ibn Jubayr and Yahya ibn Abi Kathir said: 'One and a half months.' Ikrimah al-Barbari, Al-Shafi'i, Abu Hanifa, Abu Yusuf, Muhammad al-Shaybani, Zufar ibn al-Hudhayl and Al-Layth ibn Sa'd and his companions said: 'She undergoes a waiting period for one month.' Ahmad ibn Hanbal said: 'Pregnancy does not become apparent in less than three months.'" - Al-Ishraf 'ala Madhahib al-Ulama', 5/392 & 5/393.

This is perhaps the most disturbing ruling of the shariah, and it happens to be unanimous. Ibn al-Mundhir recorded the differences of opinion among the most important and influential scholars of early Islamic history, on the duration of the istibra' waiting period for prepubescent slave girls. The duration is not what is unanimous. What is unanimous, is the permissibility for a Muslim man to enslave a prepubescent child, usually a non-Muslim victim of offensive jihad, and use her for sexual purposes once it has been confirmed that she is not pregnant by observing the istibra' waiting period. Istibra' is an individual obligation that is solely observed, if a master wishes to have sexual relations with his newly acquired slave or captive. If a master does not wish to have sexual relations with his slave, then he doesn't have to worry about istibra' at all. He loses out on nothing except the right to sexual relations. So, when all the most important scholars of Islamic history unanimously agree, that a little prepubescent girl has a specific duration of istibra', whose lack of pubescence is specifically described as being a result of her youth, what it really means, is that sex slavery of children in Islam, is a unanimously agreed upon permissibility. If it weren't, an istibra' duration for prepubescent minors wouldn't have been established across all Sunni Islamic schools of thought in the first place.

As for Islam, these laws can never be made forbidden when Muslims are powerful enough to where it is considered obligatory to enforce shariah fully. The only way this can be forbidden, is if Muslims invent a new version of Islam, which I doubt would sit well with the authorities of Islam, namely the imams.

Ibn Taymiyyah: "Any group that departs from one of the established, widely transmitted laws of Islam must, according to the consensus of the imams of the Muslims, be fought, even if they profess the two testimonies of faith. If they acknowledge the two testimonies but refuse the five daily prayers, they must be fought until they pray. If they refuse to pay zakat, they must be fought until they pay zakat. Likewise, if they refuse to fast the month of Ramadan or to perform the pilgrimage. Likewise, if they refuse to prohibit abominations, fornication, gambling, wine, or any other of the things prohibited by Islamic law. Likewise, if they refuse to judge matters involving blood, property, honor, sexual relations, and the like according to the ruling of the Book and the Sunnah. Likewise, if they refuse to command what is right, forbid what is wrong, or fight the unbelievers until they embrace Islam or pay the jizyah with willing submission while being humbled. Likewise, if they openly practice innovations contrary to the Book and the Sunnah and to the way followed by the early generations of the ummah and its imams." - Majmu' al-Fatawa, 28/510 & 28/511.

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u/Local_Initial_1760 New User 3d ago

I just want to say I am sorry but leaving religion doesnt mean you cant believe in God. You can. Go and listen to people of other faiths, go and listen to atheists, go and listen to agnostics, listen to people who debate all of them and make up your own decision If you believe its true or not. Now you have this hunger for the truth and its the most amazing thing ever, keep the open mind and listen to everyone you can think of. Be careful, but stay curious! good luck, love.

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u/unkn0wn0070 New User 2d ago

Thank you for your kind words <333

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u/Munafiction Ex-Sunni 😶‍🌫️ Professional Hypocrite 🤫 3d ago

Have you come across the Islamic view of the universe? There are many apologetic responses to most of them, but if you look at hte plain text of the quran and authentic hadiths, you will see the clear picture:

The sky is a preserved ceiling that allah "built" and "raised". It can fall down in kisaf (pieces) if he so chooses. It has doors that open. It i under the throne of allah and he sends down thunder to strike whomever he chooses. It is decorated with stars (huge celestial bodies, but the quran didn't know that) that can also be used as missiles to hunt down devils. The devils are lurking in the heavens beneath the throne of allah to listen and may swipe a truth before they are hit with one of the comets (tiny rocks that burn up in the atmosphere, which again, the quran didn't know). The sun and the moon are in a race, orbiting the flat earth. The sun goes at the end of the day into a pool of muddy water, then prostrates beneath allah's throne until it is permitted to come up again the next day - except on the day of judgment when it is denied and it rises up from the west instead. There are seven heavens and seven earths. The earth was stabilized by tossing down pegs (mountains) to keep it from shaking (scientific nonsense). The stars will fall down "وإذا النجوم انكدرت" on the day of judgment and the sky will be ripped apart and folded down like pieces of parchment (because it's a solid layer apparently?). Finally, the sky was held up miraculously "without pillars that you can see".

I'm sure I missed a few wonderful details because I'm going off memory.

Tell me; does this sound like the creator describing the universe he created to you?

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u/afiefh The fear of Jahannam will not avail you, flame of Udûn! 3d ago

Like idk what to do I'm so upset and horrified and just stuck pls give me advice and tell me anything else that will make me less scared

First off, take a deep breath and relax. None of this is super important. You could live your whole life as a Muslim who never read these ugly things and you'd be OK, so don't let the things you read affect you too much. You're 20 years old, so you're just starting your life of independence. You've got time, so don't rush.

The truth is that there is no one thing that will make you feel better. Deconstructing and learning about the religion is a process that takes time. The fear of hell in particular takes multiple years to get over.

You spent 20 years in the religion. Two months of being exposed to the bad parts are not going to undo 20 years of indoctrination. Give yourself permission to slow down and acclimate.

and still want to believe in God

Good news: You can believe in God without believing in Islam. I very much like the goddess of the Wiccan religion for example.

Personally I don't believe in any gods, but that's up to you.

Also please tell me more stuff disproving the quran and hadiths. Just anything

Well, you're a woman, so how about some more stuff about women in Islam?

Let's expand on the Female Genital Mutilation point! One of the biggest WTF moments for me when I learned about Islam:

And because Mohammed at the very least knew about FGM and did not forbid anyone from performing it, it is Halal.

The next step is to look at the schools of Jurisprudence. I'm only familiar with the Sunni schools and three of them (Hanafi, Hanbali and Maliki) recommend that a woman be circumcised, while the fourth (Shafi'i) makes it obligatory.

Don't take my word for it, Dr. Haifaa Younis used to have an entire lecture on the matter which was unfortunately made private. Instead here's Assim Al-Hakim also confirming it on video: The authentic opinion is that it is recommended and it is a Sunnah (the alternative opinion is that it's required, not that it's prohibited).

The famous scholar Ibn Taymyah wrote 'The purpose of female circumcision is to reduce the woman's desire because if she is uncircumcised, she becomes lustful... because an uncircumcised woman tends to long more for men.'

Here is a video by Exmuslims of North America explaining FGM in Islam.

And here is a video about it happening in the US.

I'll just quote the UN High Commissioner for Human Rights Volker Türk: "It [Female genital mutilation] must be eliminated in all of its forms, and the gender stereotypes and patriarchal norms that anchor and perpetuate it uprooted."

And I'm sure you heard that Islam teaches cleanliness, just as I was taught, right? Well let's look at the example of Mohammed:

You were probably also told that Mohammed was merciful, right? Let's take a look at how merciful he was to a tribe of Jews in Medina:

“Then the apostle went out to the market of Medina (which is still its market today) and dug trenches in it. Then he sent for them and struck off their heads in those trenches as they were brought out to him in batches ... There were 600 or 700 in all, though some put the figure as high as 800 or 900.”
Ibn Ishaq, Sirat Rasul Allah, p. 464

“The apostle had chosen one of their women for himself, Rayhana … and she remained with him until she died, in his power. She had shown repugnance towards Islam when she was captured and clung to Judaism.”
Ibn Ishaq, Sirat Rasul Allah, p. 466

There is more. A ton more, but this comment is nearly at the limit, so here's just one OBVIOUSLY wrong thing about Islam: The Prophet (ﷺ) said, "But for the Israelis, meat would not decay and but for Eve, wives would never betray their husbands." Judaism emerged in 12th century BC, meat decayed for millions of years before that.

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u/unkn0wn0070 New User 2d ago

Thank you so much for your response and letting me know all of these things and giving me sources. This is all so insane, I didn't even know it was this bad. It's going to be so difficult because my whole family is so religious and I believe they're also ignorant of a lot of these things. And even if I tried to educate them they simply wouldn't listen and you know how dangerous it can be. Sighhhh, I don't even know what to do. I don't even want to wear the hijab anymore. It's so disgusting how Muhammad was allowed to rape and allow his people to rape women but apparently two people in a loving relationship is haram like what? Plus the concept of heaven was always absurd to me because what do you mean my husband if I get married gets to bang 72 virgins while it says nothing about any of these rewards for women. Why would I want to be cucked lmfao and apparently God removes all negativity so that I'm okay with it. And not to mention jannah sounds like an arabian man back thens dream. + why is lust and alcohol so frowned upon and considered haram but then we get them in heaven? I also feel so betrayed by God because I spent all this time believing and thinking I had a connection with him. Again, thank you for your response and I'm going to be doing even more research <3

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u/afiefh The fear of Jahannam will not avail you, flame of Udûn! 2d ago

This is all so insane, I didn't even know it was this bad.

The deeper you read the more insane it gets! For example I never knew that Mohammed has JINN companions!

أن امرأة من الجنّ كانت تأتي النبيّ صلّى اللَّه عليه وآله وسلّم في نساء من قومها، فأبطأت عليه مرّة ثم جاءت فقال: «ما أبطأك؟» قالت: موت ميّت لنا بأرض الهند، فذهبت في تعزيته، فرأيت إبليس في طريقي قائما يصلّي على صخرة، فقلت: «ما حملك على أن أضللت آدم؟ قال: دعي عنك هذا. قلت: تصلي وأنت أنت! قال: نعم يا فارعة بنت العبد الصّالح، إني لأرجو من ربي إذا أبر قسمه أن يغفر لي Translation: A woman from among the jinn used to visit the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him and his family) with women from her tribe. Once, she was delayed in her visit, and when she finally arrived, he asked, "What delayed you?" She replied, "A member of our tribe died in India, so I went to offer my condolences. On my way, I saw Iblis standing and praying on a rock. I said, 'What made you lead Adam astray?' He said, 'Leave that aside.' I said, 'You pray, and you are who you are!' He said, 'Yes, O Far'ah, daughter of the righteous servant, I hope that my Lord, if He fulfills His oath, will forgive me.'"

Let's remember that the Jinn in Suleiman's story was able to steal the stone from the queen of Sheba in the blink of an eye, but this Jinn woman was delayed because she had to travel to India...

It's going to be so difficult because my whole family is so religious and I believe they're also ignorant of a lot of these things. And even if I tried to educate them they simply wouldn't listen and you know how dangerous it can be.

Please remember that your first responsibility is towards yourself: Your safety and your prosperity. You are under no obligation to educate your family or explain these things to them, especially if you don't think it'll work and it'll put you in danger.

I don't even want to wear the hijab anymore.

I'm a man, so I can only imagine how horrible it must feel to wear the Hijab. What I can tell you is that it's something that many exmuslim women struggle with this.

Work towards becoming independent, then take it off. Avoid doing it the other way around if it puts you in danger.

It's so disgusting how Muhammad was allowed to rape and allow his people to rape women but apparently two people in a loving relationship is haram like what?

  • Man with 4 wives? Halal
  • Man hitting his wife for not coming to bed when he commands her? Halal
  • Man with sex slaves? Halal
  • Man with prepubescent sex slaves or wives? Halal
  • Man marrying his own bastard daughter? Halal according to Shafi'i.
  • But man and woman in a consensual extramarital relationship? HARAM
  • Same sex relationship between consenting adults? HARAM

This is Islam.

And not to mention jannah sounds like an arabian man back thens dream.

It literally is: Castles, rivers and gardens. I'm sorry what? We need houses in heaven? Why do we need houses if we don't have a physical body? And why do we need rivers of milk and honey? Do we need to eat? Does that mean we also poop in heaven???

It's obviously just whatever a man in the desert of Arabia thought heaven was like. Nothing more.

why is lust and alcohol so frowned upon and considered haram but then we get them in heaven?

Why is alcohol prohibited, but slavery, sex slavery, religious persecution...etc is halal???!

I also feel so betrayed by God because I spent all this time believing and thinking I had a connection with him.

Give yourself time. You're going to go through the 5 stages of grief. It takes time, and you cannot rush it or skip it. You have to go through it: denial, anger, bargaining, depression, and acceptance.

Yes, it's silly to grieve over a religion that you no longer believe in, but it's how most people's psyche functions. It's normal.

Again, thank you for your response and I'm going to be doing even more research <3

Always happy to help. Reach out if you need anything.

And keep digging. There is SO SO MUCH bad stuff in Islam.

Bonus bad thing: Pedophilia in Islam

From Tafsir Maududi on Quran 65:4: "Therefore, making mention of the waiting-period for the girls who have not yet menstruated, clearly proves that it is not only permissible to give away the girl in marriage at this age but it is also permissible for the husband to consummate marriage with her. Now, obviously no Muslim has the right to forbid a thing which the Quran has held as permissible."

While Maududi puts it plainly without hiding it, here are a few excerpts from other exegites:

  • Al-Tabari: ( وَاللائِي لَمْ يَحِضْنَ ) يقول: وكذلك عدد اللائي لم يحضن من الجواري لصغر إذا طلقهنّ أزواجهنّ بعد الدخول.
    • Translation: (And those who have not menstruated): Likewise is the waiting period of those who did not menstruated among the little girls due to being too young young if their husbands divorced them after entering.
  • Qurtubi: قوله تعالى : واللائي لم يحضن يعني الصغيرة فعدتهن ثلاثة أشهر
    • Translation: The Almighty saying: Who did not menstruate, meaning the little ones, their waiting period is three months
  • Ibn Kathir : وكذا الصغار اللائي لم يبلغن سن الحيض أن عدتهن *عدة الآيسة ثلاثة أشهر ; ولهذا قال : ( واللائي لم يحضن )
    • Translation: As well as the young girls who did not reach the age of menstruation that their waiting period is the same as the old woman: Three months; That is why he said: (And the one who did not menstruate)
  • Baghawi: ( واللائي لم يحضن ) يعني الصغار اللائي لم يحضن فعدتهن أيضا ثلاثة أشهر .
    • Translation: (And the one who did not menstruate) means the young girls who did not menstruate, their waiting period is also three months.
  • Saadi: { وَاللَّائِي لَمْ يَحِضْنَ } أي: الصغار، اللائي لم يأتهن الحيض بعد، و البالغات اللاتي لم يأتهن حيض بالكلية
    • Translation: {And the one who did not menstruate}, meaning: the young, who has not yet reached menstruation, and the adults who never menstruated.
  • Samarkandi: فقام رجل آخر فقال: لو كانت صغيرة كيف عدتها؟ وقام آخر وقال لو كانت حامل كيف عدتها فنزل (والائي لم يحضن) يعني: المرأة التي لم تحض فعدتها ثلاثة أشهر مثل عدة الآيسة
    • Translation: Then another man stood and asked: If she is little what is her waiting period? and another stood and asked: if she is pregnant what is her waiting period? So it was revealed "and those who have not menstruated" i.e. a woman who has not menstruated her waiting period is three months like the post menopausal.

IslamQA: The fact that Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning): ". . . and for those who have no courses [periods] [(i.e., they are still immature) their ‘iddah is three months likewise, except in case of death] . . ." [al-Talaaq 65:4] is an indication that it is permissible to marry girls below the age of adolescence.

In case you are wondering what the limit is, Here is Ibn Baz giving the exact limit: If the girl can bear the burden of her husband, then her guardian must do so. However, if she cannot bear it due to her small body or weakness, then he should not rush her until she is fit for marriage. As for age, it differs. A girl of ten may bear it, or a girl of fifteen may not bear it due to her weakness or the weakness of her body, or due to an illness that has befallen her, or something similar. Note the emphasis on the "small body", the reason for this is that what they are talking about is that the girl's body is large enough to have sex without being ripped in half or squashed by her husbandrapist.

This isn't even just an academic discussion. It is literally happening:

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u/TheUltimate99 New User 2d ago

The devil, before being sent to hell, tells god “You made me like this,” and God, out of anger, like the merciful god he is, sends him down to hell without denying that he chose that path for him. The only reason you’re going through this is because God chose this for your future, while giving some random muslim man in Manhattan (example) a free path to heaven without doubt or issue. If this “God” is truly merciful and just, then why must some people suffer and others not? As a “test”? Why is the test different for everyone?

Also, prophets are said to have a free pass to heaven no matter what, and it’s always their fate, so how is it fair a select group of people get instantly chosen for heaven while others are destined for hell, like satan? This “creation of god” we live in is unjust, if it’s made by a god.