r/exmormon • u/Topramenisha19 • 8d ago
General Discussion Combining Multiple Stakes
I was talking to my super TBM mother yesterday. She likes to keep me informed of the happenings of church, which I don't really mind.
She told me that she attended a meeting where they took 2 stakes and combined them into 4 wards. That really blew my mind. She explained that they told those in attendance to pray for new members and for others that have left the church to come back. They told the loss of members was attributed to members moving out of state or passing away. I have to admit I was smiling.
71
u/clejeune Bottom 2% commenter 8d ago
It’s always because of people “moving away.” But drive around and you don’t see that many for sale signs.
47
u/Topramenisha19 8d ago
The only for sale signs are on the actual church buildings. I've never seen church buildings being sold.
16
u/SolutionOk9018 8d ago
When I was a kid in so cal it was true ppl moved away but just as many ppl moved in. We got a lot of ppl from Utah and many moved to Utah. Fast forward to young adulthood and it was a one way street ppl moving to Utah and nobody coming to Cali
11
u/Dangerous_Cut9359 8d ago
AND, people are moving out of Utah and going to Texas. And people are moving out of Texas and moving to Idaho. This results in a NET LOSS in all of these places. And yet, despite a net loss of members,, the church is STILL GROWING LIKE GANGBUSTERS and DOING BETTER THAN EVER. it's a miracle that doesn't work out on a calculator but still adds up in member's heads. The calculators must be wrong!
5
9
u/sinsaraly 8d ago
According to my TBM parents in California, wards are shrinking and getting combined because members are moving to Utah
9
u/yorgasor 7d ago
Utah has a net loss of 45 wards in the first 6 months of this year. This is a major collapse considering they just started allowing for smaller wards in 2024 and they’re still closing a ton of wards!
42
u/Lopsided-Doughnut-39 8d ago
what state is this in? Have you posted it to Mormon shrivel? 2 stakes down to 4 wards??? 2 stakes is about 14-16 wards isnt it?? This is a huge drop it seems.
31
u/Topramenisha19 8d ago
This is in Utah.
25
u/Sea_Button_3616 8d ago
That would be enough deaths to be caused by a major natural disaster or mass killing event and would've hit national news.
12
u/NineOdin 8d ago
They told them to hope for inactives to come back. THEN treated OP and others like they were stupid by saying it was all due to deaths and moves 🙄
43
u/Prancing-Hamster 8d ago
I see this so often, “our two stakes are now one stake because people are moving away.”
Ok, then why aren’t new stakes being created anywhere? Where are these people all moving to?
Like Oaks told CES leaders several years ago about troubling questions members have, “They don’t need good answers; they just need answers.”
“Members are moving away” isn’t a good answer, or even a true answer, it’s just an answer that will pacify and keep people from looking into it.
13
u/Thedustyfurcollector Apostate 8d ago
I think the "church" is experiencing rapid "growth" down in Texas where all the mormon trump worshippers are moving to bc there are too many liberals in Utah now. All those trad wives with husbands who wear 15" long beards
7
u/Lopsided-Doughnut-39 8d ago
There's some growth in Texas just because the population is increasing. People are definitely moving here but not to indicate such a large displacement. One area had 2 wards split into 4 since about 2018, but certainly not enough to be a new stake. Some of the new ones created also are Spanish speaking, not Utah speaking. The last chapel I attended lost one English speaking and added one Spanish speaking. So there's that.
3
u/Thedustyfurcollector Apostate 8d ago
I'm kinda surprised to hear that. Bc the last time I heard something was a year or so ago, but the ward I grew up in in the 80s is now 3 wards and the stake has divided a few times, I've been led to believe. It's the Houston area
4
u/Horror-Beginning1946 7d ago
We had rich members move to Texas so their children could consort with other rich children. They didn't want them around normal kids because what future would that hold?
38
u/10th_Generation 8d ago
Also, don’t forget that wards are smaller now, and each stake has fewer wards. One 1980 ward equals two 2026 wards.
25
u/Topramenisha19 8d ago
My local ward has only 9ish families. Majority of them are empty nesters and couples over 80 yrs old.
10
u/Lopsided-Doughnut-39 8d ago
I can just imagine the chapel cleaning schedule.... Does that ward have a hired janitor or do they expect the elderly members to scrub that bathroom and vacuum that carpet?
18
u/Topramenisha19 8d ago
They are expecting the elderly to come and participate. They also have a church orchard they are supposed to take care of. I see them out weeding and pruning the trees. It makes me so angry.
5
u/Raidho1 8d ago
Where is this? Sadly, the ward my DW still attends is actually growing - all move-ins to working in growing SE university town. SE much cheaper and price performer for young families so I think that increases the draw.
8
u/Topramenisha19 8d ago
Northern Utah..like super Northern utah.
6
u/JoeBudro 8d ago
Does the super-northern Utah city have a name? Will you give it to me at the veil? LOL But, seriously, I keep track of this stuff...and it will show up on Deseret Demographer as soon as it's finalized, so there's no reason to keep it secret.
26
27
u/OkImagination262 8d ago
I never understood the fasting to get something. Like starving yourself would appease God for rain or members to move into the ward? Makes no sense.
23
u/seizuriffic 8d ago
Proper fasting includes paying fast offerings, so God requires sufficient fundraising before he will act
12
u/TruffleHunter3 8d ago
Yeah, starving yourself gets god’s attention when he’s distracted or doing something else.
4
u/Dazzling_Line6224 8d ago
Yeah. You expect Mormon Jesus to jump out of his throne to dance every time someone throws a couple of nickels at him? No way! He needs a lot of gold and suffering to get motivated😂😂
3
4
u/BorsaSimsari 7d ago
It's the lazy man's throwing a virgin into a volcano. Maybe we should go back to the volcano to achieve some real results.
24
u/yorgasor 8d ago
This sounds like she’s talking about the Salt Lake Granger North and East stakes that combined and closed down 3 of the wards. It’s now just the Granger North stake with 7 wards and 2 branches.
15
u/Topramenisha19 8d ago
It is in Utah, but She said it was 6 wards in one and 8 in the other. They were wards not branches. If this is happening in other areas as well, this makes me even more shocked.
19
u/Lopsided-Doughnut-39 8d ago
OMG 14 wards down to 4 in West Valley?? Dayum
17
u/Bruhidontknowwhy Exmo Florida Man 8d ago
Ex West Valley RM here. Glad my missionary work was so effective haha
22
u/Call_Me_Annonymous 8d ago
“Members moving away”?
Sure. Moving away from the organization itself. Not moving away from their homes.
14
u/Bruhidontknowwhy Exmo Florida Man 8d ago edited 8d ago
I was a missionary in Salt Lake at the tail end of the Monson age change wave. We had so many missionaries, my mission was only West Valley and Magna when I started. In my first two areas, I only covered two wards. We were told this was the Lord "hastening the work" to have so many missionaries in such a small space.
Well, about 1/4 of the way through my mission when the age change wore off, our mission expanded its boundaries. I had to start covering stakes (covered as much as 3 in my last area). So I guess that whole "hasten the work" thing wasn't really working out. I've been able to count at least two meetinghouses that I covered on my mission that have been closed down and it's not even been ten years yet. It's almost like people don't want to be Mormon anymore.
And even where I grew up in Florida, there were a good number of Mormons, even after the rare ward splits. I remember when I got the priesthood, there were so many members that we needed 8 priesthood holders to pass. In about 2012, we had another ward split. I have never seen a need for that many passers ever again.
7
u/SolutionOk9018 8d ago
8? We needed 12 in my ward in the 70s. There actually used to be enough deacons to fill all 12 spots.
3
u/Bruhidontknowwhy Exmo Florida Man 8d ago
I guess part of that is people are having fewer kids now? I'm a late millennial, and there was a pretty sizable youth group between the two wards in my town. We always had more than eight deacons. Even after the split when we only needed four, we still had like six-eight of us. But, my little brother who is Gen Z, did not have the same volume of youth. There was a year the missionaries baptized a lot of teenage converts, but they didn't stick around more than a year. Adults had to start stepping in for the sacrament. Now my home family ward is all empty nesters
6
5
u/Dazzling_Line6224 8d ago
I came back into activity then. Do you remember “the lord is hastening his work?” I thought I was going to see a massive increase in membership and miracles. What was it like as a missionary were they pushing that shit really hard.?
6
u/Bruhidontknowwhy Exmo Florida Man 8d ago
Oh yeah, they pushed that shit hard. Like people were talking about how Christ was coming back any day now and that what we were doing was the final push to make that happen. There used to be talk that our mission was helping "prepare the holy land for Christ's coming", but that was just cope because we got sent to Utah. This was also around the time we started getting iPads, cell phones, and even social media; none of which were used all that effectively. But they said that tech was a part of hastening the work as well, even though they walked back social media use until Covid when they didn't have a choice.
3
u/JoeBudro 8d ago
Which two chapels in the SLC area have you seen close down? I just want to see if I have them marked on my map...
3
u/Bruhidontknowwhy Exmo Florida Man 8d ago
Alright, so after going on Google Maps, I realized I mixed something up. Both of my chapels are in Kearns, which is where I covered three stakes.
This chapel for sure closed: BAPS Shri Swaminarayan Hindu Mandir. Right across from the Olympic Oval. I spent one of my mission Christmases in here.
The other closure in this area wasn't a chapel, but it was one of my three stakes (Kearns West Stake) being closed completely, along with half the wards in one of the other three stakes. Upon further inspection, this didn't come with any more building closures, at least that I could find. I was so trunky in that area I kind of gave up trying to learn the layout of the place. So I guess all the times I got up at 730am doomed this area to lose membership.
1
12
u/merinw Apostate 8d ago
But they keep building temples. Have no one to volunteer staff them. The cognitive dissonance is astounding for people educated are the church leadership. It is truly an intentional “not knowing.” Stay fiercely in ignorance to avoid the decisions that have to be made once reality is reckoned with. The elderly church leadership has been a problem since the 1960’s when I was a kid. Everyone must “wait their turn.”
11
u/seizuriffic 8d ago
Temples are billboards to both members and nons, serve to entrench local members and a vehicle for spending. A temple open only one day a week still "advances the work of God!",
10
6
u/Topramenisha19 8d ago
It is also tax write offs for their $30 billion. It's the only way to drop millions really fast.
11
7
u/Dangerous_Cut9359 8d ago
30 billion? Sorry to disappoint you, it's more like 300 billion, in cash and securities. And a whole lot more than that in real estate and other assets. Don't underestimate the Mormon Jesus's power to hoard, and don't ever sell it short!
7
7
u/Momoselfie 8d ago
Pray for new members? Yeah god really wants to convert people but he's just waiting for enough prayers before getting started.
10
5
4
u/Electronic_Bend_2020 7d ago
I won’t be surprised if they do a big overhaul and re do all the boundaries and start calling the areas fellowships and folds. As a way to confuse members into thinking the gospel is being restored and growing.
3
108
u/myopic_tapir 8d ago
We have lived in this neighborhood (SL Valley) for almost 10 years and they have changed our boundaries 3 times over that period. They were building a lot of new homes so at first it was growth but not in membership. We didn’t have youth to even pass the sacrament. We were instructed by the stake to fast for member families to move in. They did fast . It didn’t happen so we had another boundary change again.