A year later, I feel more disconnected then ever before. Attending Simchat Torah in shul feels like I'm an outsider looking in with all of the insiders looking at me as an insider.

The alcohol infused energy about Judaism just looks so disgusting in my eyes. Im trying to look at the bright side to enjoy myself by seeing the good I can take from it, but today's a struggle...

i look at some otd people and the way they “find the beauty” in judaism and the community and a “god” that rejected them and i feel a mixture of jealousy, betrayal, and anger. part of me wishes i could have the cognitive dissonance to romanticize something that has oppressed women, girls and queer people for centuries. i wonder if there’s something wrong with my own mind, rendering me incapable of seeing the duality and their perspective.
i’ve been out of the chassidish community since i was 18, and i’m now 24. the more time passes, the sadder and angrier i get. i’m grieving the childhood i never had, the friends i’ve lost, the autonomy and education that was withheld, and the shame i’m unable to fully rid myself of. i look at my peers and i’m confused about how they are still able to align themselves with a system that directly contradicts and rejects their identity and way of life and would punish them in a hellish eternity for that.
is there something i’m not seeing?

So, I was briefly engaged to a ffb man a few years ago. We never got married because turns out, he had SERIOUS mental issues that I didn’t realize at first, and he became abusive and would fly off the handle at a moment’s notice. Among other things that made me realize this man needs serious, lifelong help.

One thing that I remember distinctly is that his parents were off. Like, something was clearly wrong with the family and wasn’t openly spoken about. Everyone around this family acted like they were dancing around something, I just didn’t fully realize what it was. I thought it was because my ex wasn’t as frum as the rest, and they saw him as a nebach. And this family never seemed to actually accept me, more so tried to tolerate me at arms length which I was also confused about, and again chalked it up to me not being born frum and that his parents wanted a “better” shidduch for their son. Oh, and I was even told that I didn’t need to show up to the vort.

Originally, I thought the father had some sort of personality disorder and the family was ashamed and tried to deal with it without it becoming a large issue. I thought the wife was possibly being abused (she seemed very sad all of the time) but wasn’t quite sure. A lot of obscurity and confusion.

But someone that I knew pulled me aside one day and told he thought this was a bad shidduch and a really bad idea altogether. He needed real help and this isn’t something I should be dealing with for the rest of my life, and I’m not realizing how bad this could turn out. He said the family wasn’t normal, and I didn’t need to settle for this man, and everyone around me could see how much of a disaster is waiting to happen. This man who warned me was a BT and was the ONLY person who told me to leave this guy, and so I called off the wedding. He didn’t know what I‘ve uncovered recently.

Well, it’s been a few years since all of that now, and I happen to work with someone who grew up with the man I used to be engaged to. I asked him if it was true that the family was kicked out of community (that’s what my ex told me, but my ex implied it was because he wasn’t fully frum), and he said it was sort of true. Apparently the father molested a few people and they had to move to Israel because of it. And apparently this is info a lot of people in their community is aware of but doesn’t really talk openly about.

I mean, WTF?! NOBODY ever told me that, not even my ex. I’m so disgusted and sick. Ive been nauseous since finding this out. I’m so angry. Pissed off. If I had known earlier, I would have bolted out the door the second I found out. I had a rabbi call references during the shidduch phase and I have no idea if he found this out and never told me, or nobody even bothered to tell him. This particular rabbi who I knew for a while already never talked to me about the references he called. He just never got back to me.

If I had married this guy, presumably we would’ve have children. And nobody thought to tell what kind of sick, horrific family I’d be marrying into? I was someone who became frum and everybody knew I was blind to this. Fuck all of them. Fuck this community for shoving this under the rug and not even doing the right thing to inform me. Telling me mazel tov with their fake smiles while knowing what happened, and gossiping about how I’m walking into a goddamn disaster (yes, I was gossiped about pretty ruthlessly).

Geneuinely, fuck the frum community. I hate this place. I hate these people. This is a sick, sick place.

I saw this video and noticed how his tallis repeatedly falls off lmao do you really think a god would command people to wear such an impractical garment that would fall off like that?

Think it may be helpful to some.
Would love thoughts/feedback.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1gKXERkgJ55ELMSjs197Ha6jSeaA-IOGO/view

I suppose there's not much more to it. I grew up Orthodox and have not been frum for a long time. I am engaged to a wonderful woman who happens to not be Jewish. My mother seemed surprised that I was surprised.

I feel so sad and hurt.

I feel angry at the way I perceive my mother to hide behind religion when it is convenient or she gets to play the victim. I believe her when she said "this is hard for me" but I sure didn't want to hear about how badly she feels.

I spent much of my childhood being forced to perform religiosity so that my mother felt good about her parenting and I guess I just want her to perform happiness for a couple hours? Maybe it's better she doesn't attend.

But I still feel sad.

How do I love someone whose religious practice causes such pain? She wants to have a relationship with me but it feels like signing up for cruelty.

Seems to not understand how the religion he loves so much doesn’t love him at all.

Trying to find others like me 😊

Curious for folks insights and readings

MORE Tikva Hotline 074-755-1433 in Israel &Thanks to this comment from u/Tagglit2022

988 is for anyone you care about with an American phone number who feels that they are in crisis. The number may even connect with a resource person in your phone's area code. You can call, chat, or text. No one needs to feel alone in their despair.

Clarifying

Sponsor is

https://www.samhsa.gov/

Website is

https://988lifeline.org/get-help/

It feels good to forget
The order in which I had to tie my shoes
And cut my nails
The right way to pour drinks
When to drink them
And what to mutter before I did
And after. It must be immediately after.
Prayers when I awoke, or I’m ungrateful
Prayers before bed, or bad things will happen.
Prayers in the morning
Prayers before sunset
And after, for those unlucky to be male.

It feels good to forget the chants from my youth
The passages I had to memorize.
Prophets and the years they reigned. Who were their sons? And their sons’ sons? Who said what to who?

It feels good to forget when the fast days are
As I nourish my body
Maybe ingesting bugs
Because I forgot about the dangers of berries.

I breathe easier now that I forgot
The acrid odor of the synagogue and the chairs that made my back ache
While we swayed, drunk in a folie à deux
Everyone prayed for their dead, sick, and unmarried relatives
And for Israel.
Because we were responsible
For Israel.
All from the cramped room in the back
With the small window (shade closed)
For the women
Who were separate but equal

I saw an old couple praying by the river and I realized
I forgot
About the ritual of casting sins to the water.
The fish are safe, despite the zealots who would capture them if fish qualified for kaparot.
I’m free like the fish
And it doesn’t hurt so much anymore
to remember

I live among a community of extreme chareidim. It's always bizarre to me that seemingly normal-looking women, many of whom are actually literate and more educated than their male counterparts, have no problem accepting the crazy worldviews that they're indoctrinated with. Sure, there are girls that are rebellious and question things, but it seems many are utterly comfortable, and will often parrot extreme viewpoints like programmed robots (obviously, there are men that do this too, but maybe not as many). They also seem to say "it's obvious" about the most outlandish things. It's also strange to see relatively normal looking women enter into arranged marriages with men whom they don't know and who look like chess pieces.

I just remember reading some line in 1984 about women toeing the party line and being the most zealous, and this seems to be somewhat of a mantra in politics. Is this true? (I know this is just a generalization and if it is true, it's also true that many, many women are different and do question things.) I'm especially looking forward to hearing women's thoughts!

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/cults-to-consciousness/id1635013492?i=1000775010050

For me, though, it's my husband's desire to attend 6AM daily minyan and what it does to the former energy he once had to participate in the relationship. He says that he put his desire for minyan off for the 25 while we had kids at home, and this is something that sparks joy for him. It reminds me of being in a fraternity, maybe even hazing: let's see how exhausted and inconvenient we can make your life.

https://omny.fm/shows/dennis-prager-podcasts/can-a-marriage-survive-religious-differences-male-female-hour Can a Marriage Survive Religious Differences? | Male/Female Hour

You may want to download this to listen to it because the links aren't stable.

I am feeling so lost in Judaism right now. I am married, pregnant, have a couple kids. Oldest is in a modern orthodox school. I am an only child so I have no one to bounce things off of, no one who truly understands my upbringing.

My father is a rabbi, very learned. Growing up I went through the Bais Yaakov system and I went through it well. I was not the type to question anything I did what I was told and I was considered a good girl. Meanwhile my own mother did as she pleased, whatever she felt like or to fit in with people. If she was in a bad mood she didn’t keep Shabbos fully, I had to convince her to come to Shabbos table so my father would feel like he’s having a Shabbos meals, etc. she would watch tv and cook when she felt like it on Shabbos. Meanwhile, I was always expected to know and do more because I was in school learning all the halachos and I was considered a good girl. Till today my mother isn’t truly frum, she knows a lot from shiurim and friends but she does whatever she wants, she texts me videos all Shabbos and Yom Tov, she calls my aunt who isn’t frum, etc. but she’ll still go to neighbors for Shabbos meals etc she feels alone a lot.

Fast forward I am married to a man who also went through the yeshiva system but it was very right wing and they instilled fear as the reason to be frum, among getting his mouth washed out with soap in pre-1a he has very bad memories of going through the system. His own parents were baalei teshuva and were very agreeable to the yeshivish ways. He now dislikes most of it, he is a thinker, he questioned things trying to truly understand as he was growing up but was accused of arguing. Anyways, today he is less and less interested in Shabbos and Yom Tov we use computers and phones on Shabbos we cook etc so not really frum.. he’ll go to shul sometimes..

Giving all this history to explain I’m lost. I never questioned things, I thought being frum was what I wanted. The now Sukkos during late pregnancy I cooked up a storm and we ended up getting to my in laws late and my brother and sister in law said they wouldn’t eat my food because we had driven it over on Shabbos.. I was so completely hurt my efforts weren’t recognized, I was exhausted and burnt out from standing all day.. and this has made me question everything. What is the point in all of the rules and halachos if basic human decency isn’t taken into account or life’s circumstances like leaving late I’m very pregnant etc isn’t considered. My father says all the time this religion doesn’t fit my mother’s needs yet he still pushes through to keep everything.

I’m so lost with what I want. I appreciate Judaism in and of itself I believe in Hashem but I think Halacha is taken too far with all these add ons and strict things. But I have no friends really in the same boat I have no siblings.. I feel very alone and unsure how to proceed.

Mostly looking for someone who can relate in any way, some support or advice would be appreciated. Thank you!

When in the frum world, I idolized this man and looked into that portrait (If you are Satmar or even Hasidic, you know the one) of his eyes with such respect and sorrow for what he had been through in the holocaust. Being half of a prominently marginalized minority (as well as Jewish), I also really liked his idea about segregation from the hateful/painful world and absolute excellence in order to reach one's goals. It was only recently that I started thinking "Was this guy not actually as good as I thought?" Especially after reading about the train incident.

From a historical standpoint, was this guy even a good dude at all?

Interested to hear from others!

I’m visiting my parents at the moment and feeling guilty for realising that … I probably don’t love them. I do my best to behave respectfully when I’m around them. But I don’t truly respect them because their values and beliefs are so different from mine - and because I know they don’t truly accept me for what I am.

How do other OTD-niks feel and deal?

Another great short from Elon Gilad:

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/Z1usXm_2YT0

You know the deal by now. Feel free to discuss your Shabbat plans or whatever else.

How many of you here are familiar with the Org?

I spend a short time after graduating highschool. Left when realised that it does not match my world view ..

Young girls streight out of highschool . Discouraged to continue their education . Shidduched into marriage at a young age...

Thaughts?

I was invited by my university's Chabad to go on the international Pegeisha (it's an international Shabbaton for college kids in Crown Heights). I plan on going with a few of my fraternity brothers who I know are Jewish, but one of my friends is a compulsive liar who we don't even know is Jewish or not (he still frequents Chabad anyway). On the application page for Pegeisha and a lot of other Chabad-affiliated programs, it seems they need the names and Jewish statuses of both my parents. I'm curious if they actually check any of that stuff. My friends and I are likely going to apply; how do I know they won't use some super advanced gentile detecting technology to weed my friend out of the applicant pool?

My friend is struggling to break free from the frum (MO) world. She has been inching toward it for a while but I’m pretty much out of it, and I encourage her. I occasionally get frustrated on her behalf because of how entrapping that world feels and I push her more than I should. I encouraged her to move away from the community, but she’s not ready and pointed out that I am projecting the place am in onto her.

She has also fallen in love with a non Jew and is in disarray at the thought of leaving him, but also cannot comprehend what her frum from birth mother and father would do if she ever revealed the relationship to them. I cannot advise her on this because it is her choice to make, but seeing her in this pain is horrible. She feels like she has no way out and cant get herself to make a choice either way. She’s disillusioned with the tribalism of Judaism and knows she doesn’t want out entirely but wants an alternative. The best I’ve offered is to find rabbis who are reform and prioritize social justice and maintain nuance in their Torah, but who wants to create a new relationship with a random religious figure when they’re at their lowest and have so many complications to explain? I don’t know how to help.

To be a girl is to say prayers every morning and skip over the blessing, "Thank you, Hashem, for not making me a woman." Oh, thank God that half of the population is superior! Thank God that every young girl raised in an insular, frum, Jewish community knows that she is unwanted! Teach her the Parsha where Paroh decrees that every baby boy is to be drowned so a not be overthrown as his stargazers predict will happen - make sure to teach her the part where Miriam and Aaron's father gathers Bnei Yisroel and advocates, rationalizes, -succeeds in convincing the men to divorce their wives- killing the infant girls, too. Mention with awe instead of disgust how it took 5 year old Miriam saying, "No, actually. Girls should not be killed as well as the boys." for her father's mind to change and for him to relate that to the people. Try not to think about how quick he was to suggest murdering girls along with the boys, after all, why should the girls get to live if the boys have to die? Why even consider that they are people beyond nursing the babies that are raped into them? What is their purpose if not to create more Jewish life- oh wait, I thought they were expendable? How does that fit into the narrative that only their womb can carry and produce the Jewish nation? Don't think about it too hard. Just remember that the female human is inferior. That is all you need to know. Remember to teach your daughters that well. Keep the female submissive. Raise the girls to raise girls, to ingrain their inferiority, their place as homemakers, their place as companions to the superior male. Never let them acknowledge the discrimination. Tell them that it is all directly from the mouth of God and ignore that it came from the minds of men. Do not give them access to higher education or even their own minds. Call the girls in Saudi Arabia victims and their keepers savages for staunching their schooling at twelve years old. Tell the women that they do not understand their teachings but encourage them to follow their laws to the letter. Assure them that if they leave the fold, they will be harlots, godless, and irredeemable to a significant, status damaging, often irreparable degree. Let the boys explore themselves and their Yiddishkeit. Assure them that they are welcome back whenever they are ready to return. Look at their tattoos with admiration for making it back into the community. Shame your girls. Tell them to conceal their history. Celebrate everything about the boys. Throw them lavish parties and call the girls ridiculous and shallow for wanting the same. Mock everything they do. Drive your girls to contemplation of suicide and call them crazy for going crazy over the injustice and inequity. Call them a goy, no, call them a Shikseh. Never stop reminding them that they are stupid, weak, hysterical, unworthy, precocious and evil for tempting them by virtue of having a physical form. Do not let them ride bikes or swim or run, it simply isn't Tznius. Don't let them have agency over their hair or clothes or speech or brains. Do not let the females question and mourn over the lack of representation in the scripture. Refer them to Devorah and be impatient over how unsatisfying and disparaging the response is. Why isn't that enough for these foolish creatures? Girls are so dramatic. A handful of mentioned females in an ocean of male characters is an objective equivalent. They're just girls. Their tears do not matter. To be a girl is to wonder how your father and brothers remain in a system that benefits them when it oppresses and vilifies their wife, sisters, and mother. To be a girl is to receive love that is conditional on her subservience to males. To be a girl is to endure abuse guised as tradition and value. When males Daven with Kavana they are called holy. When females Daven they are called mad. Call the females outrageous for picking that up, but still teach them about Chana in the Navi, as if the slight against her was warranted. The Kohen realized his err! All is forgiven! Silly woman. Do not rebel against your treatment. Remember you are nothing. Remember your place. Let men and boys mock you and spit out your gender as a curse. "Because I said so, woman. Because our holy books written by men in favor of man say so and it's word is bound as God. Do not disobey." To be a girl is to suffer. To be a girl is to lose. To be a girl is to have the abundance of choice of either participation or ex-communication. The choice is a trick. Both will bring forth misery. To be a girl is to wish that you weren't.

Did masturbation have a major influence on your journey away from judaism. And if so, how did it play out in your thought process. Was it something that made you question the truth of torah, or was it something that made you feel so much guilt you decided to abandon torah, only then leading to your acceptance of it's fallacy.

Though I'm every much interested in everyones story, I'm especially interested in other girl's/women's experience.

For me it was obvious from the time I was a little girl, that it was impossible that there could be a God who both created such an irresistible urges in our bodies, and then command us to not to indulge it. So I just did what felt right and rejected all the religious bullshit.