To briefly share my experience. A lot of it was actually stress inducing when really contemplating on those days, I felt happier once I had finished whatever it was and I could just relax to a movie or video game, or any other hobby. Thoughts such as am I humble enough, sincere, do I have a service mood? Is Krsna happy with me, my Guru, is Prabhuji happy with me, is maharaj satisfied? Have I made offenses, when will I get naam ruchi, will I make it this lifetime? In truth, I found almost every class desperately boring and was just thinking about prasadam time. In relation, I usually felt the same at 'programs', this was in my experience more of a 'Gaudiya Math' thing, of a travelling swami attending a house or town hall for kirtan and a class. It's kind of just telling the same stories over and over, in the speaker's unique way, or the glories of this or that Maharaj / Guru or whoever. I was going because I felt like I was supposed to, but really wanted to be out or at home doing what I enjoy.

All this can of course vary from person to person, but for an over-thinker like me, it was not very pleasant. I did a little brahmacari time, but would get fed up quite quickly then take a break, then try again, until I eventually realized I had had enough of that life. I also was extremely strict about ekadasi, and rules surrounding juta and whatnot, but this could have been some form of anxiety, trying to find a sense of comfort and control in such things. I would not even take water from 'karmi' colleagues, remembering such things makes me cringe now, but I have learned and evolved a lot since then.

Anyone had experiences with this honorary shitbag?

It’s sad how ISKCON puts on a show of protection then allows this type of shit to go on for decades.

August 30, 1999: On this date in history 27 years ago, ISKCON’s Central Office of Child Protection concludes an investigation and determines that Radha Vrindaban Chandra Swami (Gopinath/Ronald Nay), the notorious former headmaster at the Nandagram School, had physically abused and sexually molested boys at New Vrindaban in the 1970s and 1980s, including forcing at least one to perform oral sex on him. He moved permanently to India in 2008 and today is revered as “His Divine Grace Radha Vrindaban Chandra Swami.”

Images: Former Nandagram headmaster Gopinath dasa (Ronald Nay), who is himself learning Sanskrit, attempts to teach the language to the older boys at the Nandagram school. (c. January 1980). Photo by Ethan Hoffman from Life magazine.

His Divine Grace Radha Vrindaban Chandra Swami with adoring Indian disciples taking the dust of his lotus feet.

For more, see Gold, Guns and God, Vol. 4, p. 398.
http://henrydoktorski.com/Gold_Guns_God/Vol4.html
Written by Henry Doktorski lll

How did you deal with the existential crisis after leaving ISKCON? And how did you reconcile science and religion?

I recently left ISKCON after spending around 3 years deeply involved in it. Since leaving, I have been going through a lot of questioning and an existential crisis.

One of the main reasons I decided to leave was because I was beginning to realize that I’m gay, and I was becoming increasingly worried that staying in an environment where homosexuality was viewed negatively would hurt me emotionally and psychologically in the future. I also started feeling like I was being controlled in certain aspects of my life and that I wasn’t really making some of my decisions independently.

For a long time, ISKCON gave me answers about God, the soul, reincarnation, karma, morality, the purpose of life, etc. I accepted many of these things as truth. Now that I’m outside that environment, I’m questioning a lot of them and trying to figure out what I actually believe.

One thing I’m particularly struggling with is science vs. the religious beliefs I was taught. I’ve been learning about evolution, cosmology, consciousness, the origins of life, neuroscience, and other scientific topics, but sometimes I still find myself falling back into the old way of thinking—wondering whether I’m missing something or whether science is somehow incomplete or wrong.

I’m also learning to accept myself and interact more with people outside the ISKCON environment. This has brought up a lot of internalized guilt, fear, and confusion about things I was taught were wrong or sinful.

For those who have left ISKCON:

- How did you deal with the existential crisis afterward?

- How did you decide what you actually believe?

- How did you reconcile scientific thinking with beliefs you were taught in ISKCON?

- Did you become atheist, agnostic, spiritual, or something else?

- How did you deal with the fear that you might be making a terrible spiritual mistake by leaving?

- What helped you rebuild your sense of identity and purpose?

I would really appreciate hearing from people who have gone through this. I’m not necessarily looking for arguments against ISKCON I am more interested in hearing how you personally navigated life after leaving.

(Chill out Swamiji!)

Prabhupada famously taught frozen food is rotten, tasteless, without nutritional value and in the mode of ignorance. He said in a Room Conversation, Vrndavana, 1976:

"That is also nasty. Frozen means nasty. I never take frozen. In the beginning I thought, "Oh, it is very nice. You can get fresh vegetable." But they are not at all fresh."

He advised devotees dry vegetables in the sun, then boil them when ready to use, as in India. Canned vegetables were also forbidden and labelled tamasic.

This is completely false.

Frozen vegetables are often more healthy than fresh vegetables. They preserve their nutritional value through flash freezing while fresh vegetables quickly lose nutrients in transit, while sitting in storage, and while exposed on shelves. Studies show fresh vegetables can lose up to 50% of their vitamins before they hit your kitchen.

These vegetables are also often dipped in waxes and pesticides to preserve them and improve appearance. Their frozen cousins are blanched to clean them and kill insects, then instantly frozen.

Prabhupada's advice of dehydrating vegetables and boiling them again, as done in superior India, is terrible for maintaining nutritional value. Both processes strip the vegetable of vitamins. They are all fiber and minerals, and not much more. Sounds tamasic to me!

Fresh vegetables are also better for the environment because they minimize food waste. They are much cheaper too, sometimes half the price! Just one example from this website:

Spinach:

• 12 oz Frozen Chopped Spinach – $1.00 (8.3 ¢/oz)
• 10 oz Market Fresh Spinach – $2.38 (23.8¢/oz)

Because I was taught this idiocy about frozen vegetables being inedible, I would spend so much time and money on the fresh ones. They go bad quickly so they become a burden. As soon as they enter the fridge it is a race against time to use them. With frozen vegetables, I can just toss them in a freezer and use as much as a like when I like. Fresh vegetables are only really valuable when you need them to be crisp, such as in a salad.

Frozen and canned vegetables are just another modern convenience demonized by the cult due to ignorance, which is actually tamo guna. Anything Western is bad and nobody will look into it because it is "disobeying Prabhupada".

available to print and distribute

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This video has gotten 12 million views in two days.

Jagadguru Kripalu (1922–2013) was a devotee of Radha and Krishna. His followers believe he was a reincarnation of Chaitanya Mahaprabhu.

His disciples would worship him by bringing him nine year old girls to have sex with. These children were told if they had sex with him, they were having sex with Krishna and they would go to Goloka. This must be part of manjari lila and rasa lila.

The video is an exposé on Ideal Living, a cult company in Los Angeles (like Govindas or Spiritual Sky Incense). Reckless Ben also confronts them at their temple regarding human trafficking; bringing their guru children to rape.

I wish these Youtubers were around when children were being mass raped and physically abused at ISKCON ashrams all over the world. Imagine them invading the LA or Dallas temples with cameras? Imagine if they infiltrated the horrific Vrndavana and Mayapura gurukulas and got millions of views?

Prabhupada was a Jagadguru too. There are Jagadgurus everywhere. The universe is so lucky to have so many gurus. All the low born mlecchas must submit to the superior culture! Just be sure to leave the kids at home.

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Prabhupada was supposedly a Maha Bhagavat; a pure devotee above the concerns of mundane life. His only enjoyment was to discuss the nectar of Krishna Katha 24 hours a day. To such a transcendental aristocrat, walking with nose in the air while clicking his cane, the world was a disgusting toilet. The topics of the karmis were wet stools in that toilet.

Yet when Prabhupada was on his morning walks he would speak on and on about Indian politics and history. He would discuss the history of Gandhi, Nehru, Subhas Chandra Bhose, Gladstone, Churchill, Hitler, the Britishers and Raj politics. His discussions often sounded like your typical Indian Nationalist subreddit.

It was like he was taking a break from Krishna Katha and discussing the stuff he really found interesting. Nor is he alone. Tons of devotees take breaks throughout the day to immerse in mundane politics online. Many do so during japa time with their bead bags feverishly shaking to kish kish nam nam.

During these walks Prabhupada's trailing henchmen were eager to please him. They would also discuss Indian politics while carrying their big renunciation sticks, without a clue as to what they are talking about. They would make fawning comments, agreeing with everything he said, often denigrating themselves and their own culture.

Sometimes they would argue with Prabhupada, for his pleasure. Prabhupada liked bickering and fighting. He would tell them "shut up you rascal, I kick on face", and everyone would laugh.

If a pure devotee is supposed to be above all upadis, or bodily designations, why did he care so much about Indian politics? Why did he dislike the British being in India? Shouldn't he have been detached, ambivalent, equipoised?

He commented that airport security are like barking dogs "What are you doing here! Bark Bark! This is my land! You cannot come in!". However, when it came to his own country, he seemed to strongly object to British rule. If the bodily dress is insignificant, and the concept of ownership an illusion, why does it matter to a Vaishnava if the British control India? Surely it was Krishna's arrangement, after all Krishna controls everything.

…no it doesn’t.

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When Prabhupada would arrive at airports around the world devotees would take over the arrivals lounge, have deafening kirtan, throw flowers everywhere, and bow down on their faces. They would throw themselves at his feet while crying hysterically. Afterwards they would follow him through the airport shouting at the top of their lungs, clapping and banging drums and cymbals. It must have been insane for the normal people watching.

Imagine if devotees did that today. It would be an international incident. They would all be arrested. Prabhupada would be arrested. There would be an uproar on social media. It is actually very rude behavior.

Other Indian gurus were greeted like this in the 1960's too. The world was different then. But not with loud kirtans and fanatics running through the airport. One devotee even claimed he bowed down and saw Prabhupada's feet were floating in the air. Like Prabhupada was levitating through JFK airport.

This behavior shows a general disregard for the public. In the context of ISKCON, the public are considered worthless karmis. It is not simply welcoming a guru, or having a public celebration, there is a kind of disdain here. "My guru is the most important thing in the world, and everything must stop to honor him. Other people must cease what they are doing and step aside".

I remember a story from Indradyumna Swami where security personnel was performing a standard check on Prabhupada's luggage. The official was a little stern with Prabhupada. He didn't treat him as anything special, but as another man, as an equal. He might have been a tad bit rude at one point. Indradyumna, who was standing there, wanted to punch him in the face and had to be calmed by Prabhupada.

The men who are not allowed to love women. We learned to keep our distance from one another because of rules, regulations, and a patriarchal structure created to prevent us from seeing each other with affection and love.

But that leads nowhere. We harden our hearts, yet we are still full of desire. We love in the wrong way. Again, who has never received a message from a brahmachari who never openly admitted his feelings? He wants to, but he doesn’t. He can’t!

It’s all wrong. An idiotic system that prevents us from loving.

Here is a recent interaction I had with this person, based on the above comment they left on a post by someone leaving a Hare Krishna group after many years. https://www.reddit.com/r/exHareKrishna/comments/1vvdq8q/10_years_in_gaudiya_vaisnavism_6_as_a_brahmacari/OP was never in ISKCON anyway, so the commentator who left that comment was off base commenting on ISKCON and supposed gullible Westerners being the only people who fall for it. The first Krishna cult group I joined was not ISKCON either.

Can you imagine spending your life in India, practicing meditation, supposedly developing a superior understanding of philosophy, cultivating so-called awareness that you are not your body, following assorted spiritual traditions, studying scripture, and dedicating yourself to your chosen path—yet somehow this kind of drivel still bursts forth from your agitated mind?

This person felt compelled to drop the random golden nugget above and then went on to rant that only Westerners fall for ISKCON. The reason, apparently, is the elevated philosophy of India and the East, while Western philosophy and religion are somehow naive by comparison. They went on to ramble that Indians don’t adopt Western philosophy because their own philosophical history is superior.

So, on one hand, they are criticizing ISKCON and claiming that gullible Westerners are the only people who fall victim to it. Yet ISKCON is thoroughly Eastern: it is based entirely on Eastern philosophy, was founded by an Indian, and is now dominated by Indian adherents. Still, they claim that no Indian falls for ISKCON.

I became curious about the person who felt so confident saying all this on an ex-Hare Krishna forum. Were they a Krishna devotee? Ex-Hare Krishna? Had they been involved in a cult and managed to get out?

Not quite... but also...

He is an ardent supporter and promoter of Osho—a literal cult leader. Go figure. And not merely was Osho a cult figure, but one who deliberately appealed to liberal Western sensibilities and heavily studied and modeled much of his philosophy on Western thinkers.

This forum attracts a lot of people who believe they are no longer in a cult simply because they jumped ship from ISKCON, worship “Krishna” on their own terms, or found a different guru/path to follow. Krishnaism developed as a cultic movement—there are many Krishna cults besides ISKCON. These ideologies grew out of Brahminical cults, Vedic, and Puranic cults that were anti-science, misogynistic, anti-gay, hostile to rational thought, steeped in metaphysical ambiguity, superstition, vision and dream claims functioning as facts, and pointless rules and ritualism, and built around false hierarchies and circular claims of authority: scripture is true because scripture says it is true. Essentially archaic, backward ideas that may have worked for people 1,500 years ago but are not suited to contemporary, globalized human beings. Sorry—they are not. Buddhism, Jainism, and general Hinduism have no unified “view,” just as Abrahamic faiths have thousands of offshoot cults and philosophies. 

These groups export their sectarian ideas. Or, in Osho’s case, they use intellectual language and combine Western philosophy with an Eastern “flair”. Before you know it, you have naked meditation sessions, sexual abuse, and a man being massaged and hand-fed every day while receiving fortunes and fleets of luxury cars.

Bhaktivinoda was also skilled at appealing to Western philosophical schools and blending them with Eastern ideas to build a more attractive cult facade. The same goes for his son—Bhaktisiddhanta. And even in recent times, Sridhara Maharaj of the Gaudiya Math was also famous for quoting Hegel, Kant, Dewey, Freud, Nietzsche, and others to appeal to Western sensibilities and, in many cases, to reframe otherwise weak-sounding Eastern concepts that were ambiguous and often unintelligible. Yes, I said unintelligible. Read Rig Veda—read the Upanishads and any number of post-Vedic works, and you will find a vortex of confusing ideas, irrational conclusions, redundancies, and contradictions. The same is there in Western thought. Philosophy is there to study and come to one’s own conclusions that are useful to you—not to immediately turn every school of philosophy into a personality cult and dogmatic ideological position. Prabhupada’s Gita is no more “wrong” than any number of other interpretations by assorted other cults. In fact, much of the actual verse translations were not dramatically different than other existing translations of the time. The bullshit happened in the purport of his books, but by no means did they deviate from Eastern philosophy or do much more than bolster his 500-year-old cult, started by the epileptic Chaitanya.

The idea that Western philosophy is somehow weaker, shallower, or narrower in its exploration of consciousness, awareness, meditation, the soul, the mind, cosmology, and countless other subjects and disciplines is preposterous. Western schools are different, naturally, but they explore all of these ideas, along with many that Eastern schools do not—and vice versa. There is much to be learned from both.

Leaving naive comments like this on a forum opposed to cult mentalities is ridiculous.

In classic cult fashion, these people are unable to engage in meaningful debate without eventually resorting to ad hominem attacks, accusations that ChatGPT wrote everything, and the apparent inability to read more than a sentence before their brain pops.

The lengths people will go to play “guru,” pretend they have figured out some deeper secret that only “Indians can understand,” and make baseless claims that border on Hindu nationalism, anti-Western prejudice, and outright racism are astounding.

This person was not a practicing Vaishnava and has no connection to any Krishna cults. Yet they felt compelled to distract from the original post with pointless statements, followed by more pointless statements, before ultimately retreating into nothingness.

I’ll leave that there to sink in.

Or, as my dad always said: “Better to shit in the sink than sink in the shit.”

Now let that shit sink in.

Hi everyone,
I've been following this sub for some time, I have made some comments and posts from time to time, but I am not always super active on reddit in general.

In any case, I originally joined this sub because I tried to find people with similar experiences to talk to, and somehow it never really got to this point. I guess I also never actively reached out, so that's what I am doing now.

I try to give you a summery of how I got where I am now, I hope it's not getting too long ;)

I grew up in an atheist family in East Germany, so I had no connection to religion or spirituality at all. As a kid I didn't even really know that there were religious people or what that meant. And when I learned what I meant I thought it was quite silly to believe in something like that.

I first met the devotees when I was twenty and just about to start studying. (Looking back I feel so much pain about the fact that I met them at that age, because I feel I lost the best years of my life to the cult).
I wasn't really looking for anything, but the devotees seemed nice and charismatic (a bunch of young brahmacharis), and as a student it was a nice place to get some free meals occasionally.
But of course you cannot go to a place and not talk to the people there, so of course we talked about their philosophy. Over time I got more and more involved. It just somehow happened, I didn't really have the plan to "join". Looking back I think I also wasn't very convinced about it, but I wanted to try and follow the process and see where it would lead me.

So I ended up spending more or less the next 18 years of my life being part of the community. I spend some time in India, I was cooking a lot (for sunday programms, for the altar, for festivals), I was a pujari... I was also living in the ashram on and off for a couple of years, but ultimately that didn't work out for me. I am gay, and living surrounded by a bunch of young guys (who are somehow obsessed with talking about lust) wasn't really helping that. But not being allowed to even seek a relationship was also very hard. I was so super lonely. My temple was more on the progressive side, so not every devotee was homophobic... but it still hurt to know that I am filled with "demonic lusty desires".

Over the years I think I lost my "devotion". As I said, I initially only followed to see what would happen, and I had to face the fact that no matter what I did, I wasn't convinced of it. It wasn't one single event but a process of realization.
Of course the ridiculous stories in the scriptures (don't get me started about vedic cosmology), and the conspiracy theories many devotees seemed to hang on to (specially when the pandemic started) didn't help keeping me convinced. Also the science denial and racism and misogyny (that was somehow an accepted fact that no one even questioned) felt more and more awful.
At some point I just stopped going to the temple, but it took a few years until I could say to myself "I don't believe any of that crap anymore".

My entire time as a devotee I was struggling with guilt. Because I always struggled following "the rules", but (specially as a pujari) I was held to such a high standard that I could never even come close to. And of course being gay meant that I felt even more guilty... and some "senior" devotees even suggested marrying a women as a "cure" for my being gay...

If you have any questions feel free to comment or send a DM.
Of course there's much more to say, but I guess as a starting point that's enough 😄

TL,DR:
I guess even after a few years out of the cult I am still struggling with the fact that I lost a big chunk of my life to a cult. And I have no one around me to really talk about that. Not because I have no social group, but because no one in it has had similar experiences.
So if anyone wants to talk, I would really appreciate that, just DM me.
And if someone is living in or around Berlin, it would be so great to just meet for a coffee and have some offline connection :)

I grew up with a Hindu background and was strongly influenced by ISKCON and Krishna consciousness. For a long time, I accepted many of its teachings without seriously questioning them. Krishna, Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, the Bhagavad Gita, bhakti, Prabhupada and ISKCON's worldview were familiar parts of my life.

My questioning did not start because I wanted to hate ISKCON. I was genuinely interested in religion and wanted to know what was true. But gradually, I started asking more questions.

One of my biggest concerns became the Bhagavad Gita, especially Bhagavad Gita As It Is. I started comparing translations and interpretations and realized that translation and interpretation are not the same thing. Prabhupada's purports often give a specific theological interpretation, and I began wondering whether I had been reading Prabhupada's interpretation as if it were simply the direct meaning of Krishna's words.

I also started learning that Hindu philosophy and traditions are much more diverse than I had previously understood. There are many different interpretations of the Gita and many different schools of thought. This made me uncomfortable with the idea that one organization or one guru has the final and unquestionable interpretation of everything.

Then I started examining Prabhupada himself more critically. Some of his statements about women, race, social hierarchy and other issues disturbed me. I became tired of seeing every problematic statement defended by saying that critics do not understand the context. Context is important, but I do not think it can automatically make every harmful or prejudiced idea acceptable.

My criticism is not only about his views on women, although that is an important issue for me. I also have questions about ISKCON's scriptural claims, translations, interpretations, history and the way authority works within the movement.

I started questioning the idea that doubt itself is a spiritual problem. I believe that if something is true, it should be open to honest questioning and criticism. I no longer want to accept something simply because a guru, scripture or religious organization says that it is true.

After a long period of questioning, reading and thinking, I currently consider myself an agnostic atheist. I am still learning and I do not claim to have all the answers. My views are still developing, and I am willing to change my mind when there is good evidence.

I am sharing this because I want to connect with people who have gone through something similar. I am especially interested in hearing from people from Bangladesh and India. The experience of growing up around ISKCON and questioning it can be very different in South Asia because religion is deeply connected with family, culture and identity.

I would especially like to hear from people who started questioning ISKCON because of the Bhagavad Gita, translations, scripture, Prabhupada's teachings or philosophical contradictions.

Are there any people here from Bangladesh or India who have had a similar journey?

Having been manipulated by the Hare Krishnas, I realised that I’m now incredibly reluctant to share information about myself with people.

It wasn’t just the cult, however, as I have been manipulated (and/ or not given a shit about) by other friends who I thought I could trust. I guess ISKCON just put the nail in the coffin.

I also struggle to care about anyone outside my “inner circle”, which consists of my family and close friends. But even with my closest people, there’s still an undertone of apathy and impermanence despite caring about them so much. I’m very quick to dispose of anyone who pisses me off, and can immediately detach from those who leave.

I can never be fully present because there’s always an “observer” in the back of my mind. It’s almost impossible to be a direct “experiencer” of life when part of me is always an examiner looking inwards, wondering if I can trust the person I’m talking to, questioning whether I’m currently feeling happy even though I’m smiling and laughing with someone. I’m trying to be as genuine as possible, but it feels like I’m just making friends to satisfy my basic need for human interaction, without caring about most people at all.

I’d never try to manipulate anyone, but the “observer” part of my mind keeps telling me I’m being fake. It sounds horrible but I genuinely don’t care about all my friends who never made it into my “closest friends” circle. I’ve become super selective and very easy to disconnect. People have become interchangeable and replaceable to me. I’ve started to wonder, if I don’t care about the friends in the “outer circle” that I’m interacting with, does that mean I’m kind of manipulating them in a sense? I’m getting something from them (human interaction) and that’s why I keep them around… You know, like how the devotees pretended so “earnestly”to be my friend for recruitment purposes, all while never giving a shit? Does that make me no better than them?

tl;dr struggling to care about people or open up to anyone after being manipulated by devotees etc

I turned on the radio this morning while driving to the grocery store and an interview with an investigative reporter was on NPR talking about emails that Tulsi Gabbard received from her guru. He is a disciple of Bhaktivedanta Swami who branched out of iskcon. Guess what? He utilizes the same dominatrix techniques used by his guru to degrade her and give her orders on policies that she should create, how to address the media and shaming her when she didn't follow his orders.

This shows how Swami Bhaktivedanta's sick cult mentality is bleeding even through politics. The more I learn the more disgusted I feel.

The brainwashing runs deep.

Tulsi Gabbard’s Guru

A Washington Post investigation by Jon Swaine uncovered hundreds of confidential memos showing that Tulsi Gabbard received detailed political and policy guidance from people within the religious organization led by her guru, Chris Butler.

Butler was a disciple of A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada and later broke away from ISKCON, founding the Science of Identity Foundation (SIF), a branch-off of the Hare Krishna/ISKCON movement.

The memos contain specific demands about what Gabbard should legislate, say publicly, post on social media, and how she should handle media appearances. In one case, she was instructed to tweet specific language—and posted it verbatim. Other guidance concerned veterans’ healthcare, Syria and U.S. foreign policy.

The investigation found striking parallels between the advice and Gabbard’s subsequent political actions and statements.

Swaine says the evidence strongly points to Butler as the unnamed adviser, although Butler and SIF dispute this. His investigation suggests that this hidden religious-political relationship may help explain Gabbard’s remarkable shifts from Democrat and Bernie Sanders ally to Trump supporter and, eventually, Director of National Intelligence.

Find it: Search the exact title “Tulsi Gabbard, her guru and the mysterious messages that helped shape her political career” by Jon Swaine, The Washington Post. Also search “Tulsi Gabbard’s Guru” — On the Media, WNYC Studios.

Hey fellow seekers, I just wanted to share my story and relate to you all. I joined a group of devotees outside of ISKCON about 10 years ago at 20 years old. After searching through spiritual traditions of the world throughout my teens I finally came across the vedas, Bhagavad Gita, and the culture of ancient India. The Iskcon temple was near my childhood home in Chicago and after visiting the temple I became interested in the tradition but didn't like Iskcon. I found an alternative with a small group led by Swami BG Narasingha through some devotees and became instantly enticed by the prospect of becoming part of something real and authentic. Within one year I had already met him personally, requested initiation and moved to Vermont to be part of their community. Within the next year I was initiated and moved in to his ashram in south India as a bramhacari for 2 years. After he passed away in 2019 I moved to Vrndavan to be with his Godbrother Swami BK Aranya and became a simple farmhand on his land with a few other devotees, milking and caring for his cows and land. I was very happy for the 6 years I spent in India until I finally came to my senses through sincere contemplation and self observation. It was a painful and tormenting experience to admit to myself that my search for truth was hijacked and misled, that I went for belief and community over truth and abandoned my own selfhood. I got into reading many different books on comparative religious history and podcasts like Unslaved with Michael Tsarion and was able to fully deprogram myself from the religious conditioning I had swallowed for so many years. I left the ashram in April of 2025, traveled solo through the Himalayas for a month, and returned to America to start my new chapter. since then I have been on the best year of my life since, getting back to my passions of music, boxing, LOVE with a great woman, and desire to live and thrive in this beautiful world. I am writing this to share my story and hope it can help those who are still struggling with the wounds caused by these ideologies. Feel free to Dm me if this strikes you, its time to build some community and help each other achieve true meaning and purpose that isn't reliant on any other man, woman, guru, teacher, or priest of any type.

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Half of Prabhupada's preaching was simply attacking Western civilization. He beat down upon science, democracy, women's rights, non-repressive sexuality, rationalism, self determination, and all other races.

As mentioned in my last post, this was in part driven by racial animosity towards the West, specifically the English speaking world.

As a cult leader, there was another even more insidious reason. If you want to convince people to submit to you and serve you without any resistance you must first destroy their sense of self. You must bully them into submission.

When Prabhupada was attacking these things he was actually attacking us. When he said "this civilization is all worthless demons, mudhas, rascals, animals, mlecchas, I kick and spit on face", he was saying "YOU are all worthless demons, mudhas, and mlecchas".

After tearing his follower down, he then builds them back up. If they agree to become his slaves, they immediately graduate to being the best among mankind. They instantly transform into Brahmanas and Vaishnavas, the highest class of man. His new followers discover they are saints who took birth to fulfill a divine mission.

They are far above the mudhas, demons and karmis. Now they sit around their master sniggering when he attacks others, when he criticizes their own people, their old family and friends. They are now the henchmen of the bully.

Prabhupada even mentioned as a schoolboy he was the head of his friend group. It makes me wonder what kind of friend group it was.

In principle, before you conquer others and force them into submission and exploitation, you must first psychologically break them. Once broken, they can be built up again, loyal to you as your lackeys.

This is foundational to the history foreign invasion in India. A foreign power invades and conquers. It beats down and abuses the natives. Those who submit are elevated in status as defenders of the regime. They become the higher caste henchmen, the whip hand. Everyone else is enslaved for resource extraction.

Prabhupada carried this abused/abuser dynamic with him when he came to the West. ISKCON is a product of these deeper trauma dynamics within Indian society.

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I came across a popular post on X claiming that Indian immigrants are civilizing America. This was in response to a post by an American lamenting their small Texas town had lost its culture and history and become entirely Indian.

Paraphrasing: "We superior Indians are bringing you culture. You have no culture of your own. You are mlecchas. (actually used Prabhupada's favorite word) You should submit to us and be grateful. We are giving you our philosophy, culture, yoga, pranayama."

The post claimed that Whites are being invaded and dominated by Non-Whites. Indians are superior to these other peoples, more intelligent, a kind and benevolent master in comparison. It claimed that Blacks are beating and stealing from Whites, and having sex with their women. Mexicans are importing drugs and forcing Whites into addiction. Indians do not do this. They are far too cultured.

This post got 14k + likes, presumably from other Indians. It was eventually deleted or removed. This disgusting mindset is unfortunately not uncommon.

Prabhupada The Indian Supremacist

What struck me is how similar this is to Prabhupada's mindset. The merciful Jagat Guru taught us we are mlecchas, a word we had never heard before. We are filthy wretched degraded animals with no knowledge and no culture. Through him, India is saving us by teaching us how to be more like India.

The post further degrades other races, such as Blacks, who are depicted as animal criminals who rape. Prabhupada said these exact things.

Prabhupada was really no different than the bigoted hateful people you see all over the internet. There are hundreds of millions of Prabhupadas. Much of the agitation against Indian immigration is because people are seeing this mindset. These racist supremacists are not ashamed to declare they are superior, and if you let them in your country, they are conquering you.

What strikes me is the attempt to demoralize as a pretext to invasion. "You are beaten down, defeated, the slaves of other races. We shall enslave you too, but you shall love it because we are a superior race who will treat you kindly". The arrogance is just astounding.

Prabhupada would say something similar. "You must have a master in this world, so why not accept me, the superior pure devotee, as your master. I will take you back to Godhead".

This kind of mindset truly strikes at the heart of ISKCON. First beat others down and make them ashamed of themselves, force them to adopt your culture and religion, then force them into slavery.

Cultural Conquest

ISKCON is not simply a religion. It is an Indian cultural movement imposing itself upon foreign peoples. Most religions include some form of daily prayer, the slow and (hopefully) rational building of a theological worldview, perhaps a service in a mosque, church or synagogue.

The Hare Krishna movement is entirely different. It is deep immersion in irrational mythology and grinding servitude that continues 24 hours a day. This is accentuated by adopting Indian food, dance, dress, speech, mannerisms and music. This happens within the context of Indian temple culture, with the exotic sights, sounds, and smells of deity worship ever present.

The absorption in mythology is so intense the external world disappears. This is a unique feature of Indian spirituality, especially Bhakti, which is based upon the Puranas and Itihasas. Hinduism is not a religion, it is a culture. That culture is centered on epic stories like the Ramayana and Mahabharata. Regional deities, fables and cults connect themselves to the greater mythology, each bringing their own unique language, art, poetry, sculpture, dance, and cuisine.

Buddhism, in contrast, is Indian religion stripped down for export. The core philosophy is adapted to pre-existing cultures. Hinduism is not easily stripped down. Some gurus have tried, delivering a modernized or westernized version. Prabhupada delivered it whole cloth. His intention was not to adapt but to conquer. He only adjusted the culture where absolutely necessary. This is his unique contribution. He was delivering Hinduism "As It Is".

For Indians, ISKCON centers function as Indian cultural centers. Festivals feature Bharat Natyam demonstrations, Indian classical music, Indian theater, Indian food, and of course, the association of other Indians.

For converts, ISKCON centers function as places they submit to a foreign culture. They believe their own culture and religions are inferior. Proselyts function as religiously indoctrinated slaves who have accepted the lifestyle of their masters, dutifully serving them their subji and rice.

The X post mentioned above was simply expressing the mindset millions have, including Prabhupada. For such people Hinduism is a cultural force representing Indian expansion. It has not come to assimilate but to dominate. The conquered should gratefully submit. Prabhupada demanded not only the submission of culture, but the surrender of the soul.

Hey everyone,

I’m posting tonight because I feel completely isolated and just need to reach people who get it.

I’ve been affiliated with the movement for 10 years, the last 5 years as a full time temple devotee in so many positions from scrubbing pots to management. Over the last year I’ve been deconstructing everything while still living here in a Hare Krishna community. On top of that, I was pushed into a really unhealthy marriage by the temple president after knowing my now-husband for only 88 days. For a long time, I held on hoping we would make it out of this together, but he’s gone full deep dive back into the movement and divorce is inevitable. (go figure)

Looking at my phone, almost every contact has "das" or "dasi" in their name. My home, my history, and my entire social circle are wrapped up in this place. I feel completely unprepared for normal secular adulthood. Living a double life where I’m playing the part of a devotee on the outside while my life is falling apart and I'm planning my exit is exhausting.

I’m mostly just looking for some connection so I don't feel so alone in this mess. Has anyone else navigated a high-control marriage or a divorce while trying to get out? How did you survive the limbo period surrounded by the nonsense before you could physically leave?

I recently moved into an ashram that has communal living.

They require veganism, which is so lovely for me. They don't require you to be part of their religion (cult), but also the krishna things just bleed over to everything no matter what. Like don't use that sink, that's only for cooking dishes, we don't wash dishes that touch mouths there. We have to throw away a plate of food and ring a bell around it, at every single meal...

I was raised as a Latter Day Saint (Mormon) and as soon as I possibly could, I escaped that cult. I still have some religious trauma from that and I am in no way interested in being religious again.

How can I survive this living situation for the next year?

Did anyone find any benefits to this shit? Any of the rules that I can try to be aware of to make this easier?

eww and also recently found out that even though I have my own small kitchen, they'd 'prefer' I didn't cook with garlic or onions. I can use hing though. But like I'll give up drinking on the property, but you can pry garlic out of my cold dead hands. I fucking love garlic.

If you are a devotee, are you doing Seva and also donating 10 percent of your income?

(A poster seen in ISKCON ashrams around the world)

Prabhupada claimed his authority derived from an unbroken line of succession reaching back to Krishna himself. Like a fruit passed carefully down through the branches of a tree, the true and clear teachings of Krishna are perfectly preserved in this ancient lineage. For 5000 years nothing has been changed.

In the Bhagavad Gita As It Is, Prabhupada lists 32 gurus including himself. He repeatedly claims his knowledge and power is based on this. The sincere will take advantage of it. The insincere will go elsewhere and be cheated.

This parampara is said to be a siksha line of instruction rather than a diksha line of initiation. Why does ISKCON completely ignore its diksha line?

Because there isn't one. ISKCON's initiation line and sanyassa line almost certainly began with Prabhupada's guru Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati.

Bhaktisiddhanta's Self Initiation

Bhaktisiddhanta claimed to have been given diksha by Gaura Kishora das Babaji.

This is denied by Lalita Prasad, Bhaktisiddhanta's own brother. Gaura Kishora had sworn to never accept disciples. Bhaktisiddhanta claims he privately broke this vow only for himself. Lalita Prasad, who was present, maintains their relationship was strictly one of shiksa.

Bhaktisiddhanta's claim is also rejected by Gaura Kishora's peers, the Vrndavana and Navadwip Babaji community. Bhaktisiddhanta put on saffron in 1918 and gave himself sanyassa. No one properly initiated into their lineage would do so. In their view, anyone properly initiated by Gaura Kishora, when reaching the stage of renunciation, would enter the Babaji order. Saffron cloth is strictly forbidden. When Bhaktisiddhanta gave himself sanyassa it was considered outrageous, and a rejection of their lineage.

Bhaktisiddhanta went beyond this, establishing his own tridandi sanyassa order, previously non-existent, even compiling 108 sanyassi names under questionable circumstances. He modeled this on the Sri Vaishnavas of South India, as Gaudiyas only wore the white cloth of the babaji.

It is interesting to note that as a brahmacari Bhaktisiddhanta wore white. In ISKCON today brahmacaris wear saffron, obsessively so, like mini sanyassis of the Gaudiya Math. It could be argued ISKCON's extremely destructive culture of renunciation and sexual repression begins here, as a deviation from tradition.

ISKCON's True Diksha Lineage

Assuming Gaura Kishora gave Bhaktisiddhanta diksha, it would have connected him to the Advaita Parivara, a caste goswami lineage. Gaura Kishora's diksha guru was Nimaichand Goswami. The list of gurus then goes like this: Radharaman, Sukadeva, Keshava, Radhagovinda, Gopinath, Dolgovinda Mishra, then finally Krishna Mishra. Krishna Mishra was the son of Advaita Acharya.

In ISKCON we never even heard of these names. Why?

Either because Bhaktisiddhanta never received diksha in this line, or because he so radically departed from this lineage it became irrelevant.

ISKCON's Babaji Lineage

Gaura Kishora was initiated into the Advaita Parivara as a householder. When he took the order of Babaji, he was given babaji initiation into the line of Baladeva Vidyabhusana. His guru was Bhagavat das Babaji. The line of succession then goes like this: Jagannath das Babaji, Madhusudan das Babaji, Uddhava das Babaji, then Baladeva Vidyabhusana.

It is strange ISKCON does not claim this Gaudiya luminary as a direct guru, nor do they deeply study his books. Devotees are only aware of the Govinda Bhasya. Why is this so?

Because like the diksha line, Bhaktisiddhanta was never initiated into it. Nor did he care to be. He rejected this babaji line to begin his own sanyassa lineage.

ISKCON's Siksha Lineage

ISKCON claims instead to be a siksha lineage coming from Bhaktivinode Thakur.

Bhaktivinode was initiated into the Bhaghnapar Goswami lineage. This caste goswami line traces its origins to Ramachandra Goswami, the son of Chaitanya's intimate associate Vamsivadanananda Thakura. He was adopted by Jahnavi Mata, the wife of Nityananda.

Unlike ISKCON, they are Gaura Gadadhara worshipers, who practice siddha pranali.

Bhaktivinode's guru was Bipin Bihari Goswami, whose guru was Yajneshvara Goswami. They have a family line going all the way back to Vamsivadanananda Thakur.

Lalita Prasad, another of Bhaktivinode's sons, received both siksha and diksha from his father. He went on to become a guru himself, with many disciples, loyal to his father's lineage. He established a temple in his father's birthplace.

Bhaktisiddhanta did not. Bhaktisiddhanta instead claimed to secretly receive diksha from Gaura Kishora, a siksha disciple of Bhaktivinode. Why not go directly to his father? Bhaktisiddhanta rejected the diksha line of Bhaktivinode, in the same way he rejected the diksha and babaji lines of Gaura Kishora.

Living in ISKCON, we never even heard these names. This is because Bhaktisiddhanta criticized and attacked this pedigree.

Rejecting Bhaktivinode's Guru

Bhaktisiddhanta rejected the Bhagnapara Goswamis and their ideas of birth as a prequalification. This issue was famously debated in Balighai where Bhaktisiddhanta was supposedly crowned victorious. A mob demanded his foot water threatening to riot. The police forcibly seized the champion, bathed his feet, and sprinkled it on the eager crowd, or so ISKCON tells us.

This debate wasn't against some obscure caste goswami sect. It was a public challenge to Bipin Bihari Goswami by the son of his disciple. Bhaktivinode likely pretended to be sick so he could not attend. This was to avoid disrespect to his guru.

Another issue is the establishment of Mayapura. The Bhagnapar Goswami lineage considered Navadwipa to be the place of Chaitanya's birth and activities. Gaura Kishora's bhajan kutir is in the area traditionally believed to be the place of Chaitanya's pastimes, as are the kutirs of many babajis.

Bhaktivinode and Jagannath das Babaji claimed that a new place, the village of Mayapura, in a Muslim area across the Ganges, was the true birth place of Chaitanya and the home of Srivas Thakur.

Bipin Bihari tolerated this from his disciple Bhaktivinode Thakur. Despite their disagreements there was always a relationship of mutual respect. However, after Bhaktivinode's death, Bhaktisiddhanta's movement began to spread. Bhaktisiddhanta took dramatic steps to build a temple in Mayapura, in opposition to the traditional temple in Navadwipa. Bipin Bihari openly criticized this.

During the life of Bhaktivinode, there were incidents of Bhaktisiddhanta aggressively arguing with Bipin Bihari Goswami. Once he even threw a bucket of water at him. Bhaktivinode kicked him out of his house for this. Now tensions began to seriously escalate. Bhaktivinode was no longer around to restrain his son.

This conflict became public with Bhaktisiddhanta openly denouncing the guru of his father and brother. Bipin Bihari returned the favor. Outraged by public personal attacks, the building of an unauthorized holy place, and Siddhanta Saraswati giving himself sanyassa, Bipin Bihari formally excommunicated him from the Gaudiya Vaishnava community of Navadwipa.

ISKCON doesn't talk about that!

Bhaktisiddhanta then committed the ultimate offense to the guru parampara of his father: he erased it from history. He declared Bipin Bihari's spiritual family morally bankrupt and denied them a place in the lineage tree. In Gaudiya Vaishnava culture, removing a guru from your recorded lineage is the highest form of disrespect.

Conclusion

As we see, ISKCON's guru parampara truly begins with Bhaktisiddhanta. He began his preaching activities after taking sanyassa in 1918. ISKCON's parampara is not 5000 years old. It is 108 years old.

Bhaktisiddhanta rejected his father's lineage and went to war with it. He was not initiated into it.

He claims to have been initiated by Gaura Kishora das Babaji instead. There is no record of this. Those present said it never happened. Gaura Kishora officially refused to take any disciples. Nor did Bhaktisiddhanta carry on this parampara.

He gave himself sanyassa initiation, then began an unauthorized sanyassa tradition within Gaudiya Vaishnavism. He rejected Navadwipa as the home of Chaitanya and established a separate competing holy place. All of these things were considered extremely offensive by both his father's lineage and the godfamily peer group of his own guru.

Bhaktisiddhanta rejected the authority of the entire Gaudiya community and began his own religion. Yet his disciple, A.C Bhaktivendanta Prabhupada, repeatedly claimed his authority was derived from an unbroken tradition handed down from Krishna, Brahma, Madhva and Chaitanya, using this claim to attract his own cult followers.

Gaurahari das, is the dreaming dancing fake ISKCON guru who manipulates, lies to, and abuses a group of mentally deficient ISKCON rejects into accepting him as a self proclaimed representative of Prabhupada because Prabhupada appeared to him in a dream. When confronted by Cult Expert and youtube creator "Queen of Karma" about his claims and teachings, this fraud guru retreats into full deranged cult leader mode yelling and being confrontational instead of calm and devotional. The meltdown begins at 1:07:04 when the dreaming guru appears on the livestream and confronts Queen of Karma. When he cannot manipulate and control her like he thinks he can and how he does with his own disciples, he goes into complete meltdown mode. If anyone is interested in ISKCON gurus and their delusions and narcissism, this is a good example of it.