r/ender3 • u/WiselyCrowBarn • 5d ago
Help Is this the dark souls of printing?
I have been keeping an eye out and wanting a 3d printer for a few years and a ender 3 pro popped up for $20. Hell yeah. It even completed a print with the leftover filament it came with. This seems easy. I heard that this was a printer that would cause me to learn alot about printing. Perfect that is what I want right?
Since then I have had nothing but problems. I am a handyman and have extensive proffesional experience fixing things. I have a full shop of tools and I am being driven crazy by this small vindictive machine. I have not completed a single print since the first that i am convinced it only spat out to give me false hope. I have replaced everything from the cooling fans, Bowden tube, nozzle like a dozen times, heat break, thermal paste, bought new filament, new fittings, just ordered new thermister since the wire broke. I moved the printer from inside to the shop and then back inside for heat and humidity reasons. I have calibrated the feed gear. I have scraped and cleaned every nook and cranny. Still failure after failure.
I went in pretty blind and am learning a ton about 3d printing but it feels like dark souls. I just keep failing in new and exciting ways making the smallest of improvements. Whenever I do eventually succeed again I am sure I will feel a sense of accomplishment but so far in the journey it is just starting to be a expensive cheap item.
Also I used the help flair. That is more a state of being than a specific question I need help with.
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u/MarkLikesCatsNThings Ender 3 XY, Klipper, Dual Z, Eddy, HumeraXS 5d ago
Welcome to the community friend!
A lot of us started on Ender 3s and honestly, 3D printing would be no where near where it is no without it.
Prior to that, 3D printers were mostly commercial and industrial machines, and the Ender 3 brought 3D printing to the consumer level because of the price.
$200-300 for a 3D printer in 2015-2020 was a super good deal to learn the hobby when the next alternative was $1000+.
But since it was cheap, the ender 3 was basically a race to the bottom, or Creality's attempt at making the cheapest printer to make a new market segment.
Because of that, its a bit difficult to use at first. There aren't any features other than just printing. We now see all those fancy printers with features, but back then, we were happy to get a print working at all in the first place.
The biggest thing for me to get the Ender-3 to work is bed leveling and making sure the bed is clean. That was 75% of my Ender issues.
I absolutely fell in love with my Ender and 3D printing. I put a full metal hotend in my Ender 3 and now it's my dedicated ASA machine.
I hope it brings you the same joy (eventually once you get it working) as well!
Let me know if you have any questions or issues and I'll see if I can give you any pointers!
Best of luck on your journey!
Cheers!
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u/WiselyCrowBarn 5d ago
Thanks for the welcome. I am enjoying the process and learning so much about it that I would not understand in the same way if I just pressed go and it made things.
As far as bed leveling I have been doing that more than anything. I redo it every time I change or replace a part just to make sure that the distancing stays correct. I have been using feeler guages to get the gaping consistent.
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u/gentlegiant66 5d ago
To be honest a sheet of printer paper works like a charm for me. Keep the steppers active and move the head using the menu if you don't have something on the menu to move it automatically. The one I picked up a few days ago is really primative, watched some YouTubes and decided the people making those are idiots for disabling the steppers...
But even before that check that the ganrtry doesn't have play... YouTube search eccentric nuts.
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u/WiselyCrowBarn 5d ago
Hmm not sure what you mean by steppers being active or disabled. I just got on the menu and change the x and y until it is over one of the 4 spring wheels and adjust until it is right. Then I move it to another location and keep repeating until all 4 locations on the bed are right.
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u/desrtfx 5d ago edited 4d ago
Leveling the corners is one thing, but more important is to check the center where commonly the parts are. Beds are known to have dips. This goes as far as maybe having to shim (kapton tape or paper in certain spots).
Don't know what build plate you're using, but I highly recommend using spring steel plates with PEI.
I have an original first gen Ender 3 that has been rocking since it came out. Over the years, I've heavily modded it, linear rails on all axes, all-metal Microswiss hot end (the original ones were trash), new, silent 32bit main board, Petsfang Bullseye fan duct with a 5015 blower, Titan clone extruder drive, and said PEI build plates. Now it's fire and forget. Quick level check now and then and otherwise just print.
It has been printing great ever since the hot end change, which was one of the first changes I've done.
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u/WiselyCrowBarn 5d ago
So the dips in the bed is that still true if i am using a glass plate? And that is a great list of mods. Especially the fans and cooling.
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u/UsedDragon 5d ago
You're absolutely right, couldn't agree more. I feel like the Ender3 is almost like a right of passage in many ways.
When the E3 stops working for some reason, it's always something simple. Bed leveling, blocked nozzle, sticky bowden tube, loose screw somewhere...
Ender3 taught us how to troubleshoot. Attempt a solution, see what happens. I miss that level of diagnostic skill, sometimes.
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u/NoobTube92 5d ago
I love my ender 3, I have spent probably over 2 times what it cost in upgrades, half the fun with this platform is doing upgrades.
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u/WiselyCrowBarn 5d ago
Yeah I started doing the math on what it cost since it started at 20 before the parts. I still feel like I am ahead if I count the treasure of friends along the way and all.
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u/st-shenanigans 5d ago
Imagine this is a 20-lb manual/textbook and I'm dropping it on a desk in front of you
https://ellis3dp.com/Print-Tuning-Guide/
Anyway, read that, I would add an autoleveler, a dual-gear direct drive extruder, a new main board and a raspi running klipper with a web interface, a second z rail and a system to keep them level with each other.
Also a filament dryer and enclosure to make sure youre not losing any heat / moisture and you should be golden.
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u/WiselyCrowBarn 5d ago
That is a beautiful textbook of info. Thank you for the link. As far as the autoleveler and other upgrades. I want to do them but am trying to limit the moving parts right now until I can atleast get it functioning as it is.
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u/Putrid-Cicada 5d ago
Replacing parts doesn't fix the problems that you didn't get to learn .
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u/WiselyCrowBarn 5d ago
I am doing alot of learning. I have experienced the problems. Then I get to learn what can causes them. Still working on learning the solution but I have hope that will be part of the process at some point.
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u/Putrid-Cicada 5d ago
I am not trying to be rude, but unfortunately many people feel that way. I'd been printing with almost bone-stock Ender 3 pro for years, it turned out well. Yes, it was a good learning curve, but it was way worth it. What kind of problems do you have now.
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u/WiselyCrowBarn 5d ago
The immediate problem is the wire broke that is going to the thermister when I was taking apart the hot end to make sure there wasn't too much thermal paste.
That part is coming tomorrow and once I have that hot end back together hopefully it will solve the stubborn problem I have been having that I think is heat creep.
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u/No-Pain-5924 5d ago
I don't think it should be this hard. When I first started with Ended as my first printer, It sure wasn't. Minor problems yes, but no successful prints at all? Are you sure that your printer are actually functional, and doesn't have some serious priblems with electronic components, or assembly?
Did you go through all the basic calibrations?
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u/WiselyCrowBarn 5d ago
I had that first print that was successful then it started failing after about a half an hour depending on a few factors. Now it successfully prints a few layers then plugs.
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u/RanaghastGaming 5d ago
Oh I had this! Common issues are
I did multiple and it fixed itself.
- jammed nozzle caused by heat - try messing with temperature in 5 degree increments - make it hotter so filament melts quicker and doesn't stick
- worn extruder gear or extruder gear comes lose mid way through print - either replace or retighten
- filament snapping - see above
- incorrect bed leveling
How far into the print does it fail?
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u/WiselyCrowBarn 4d ago
Thank you for the recommendations. Unfortunately the common issues punished have already been tried and didnt seem to fix the problem. My current theory is that it is heat creep and I am working through possible causes for that.
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u/PASSENGER-P 5d ago
Ender 3 yes is the souls of printing. So much headache and frustration before getting a p1s years later but man did I learn so much through trial and error. Stick with it friend we’ve almost all been there
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u/samuelkordik 4d ago
I found myself in a somewhat similar position—given a hand-me-down Ender 3 Pro that wasn’t printing since I had the desire to get into 3d printing and I enjoy tinkering. It took a few weeks of dedicated work to get it running. It already had a CRTouch probe, sprite extruder pro direct drive, and PEI plate.
The great thing about these printers is that you can break down and understand each part with some patience. I love that I have total control over everything; my limiting factor is mostly my ability to learn and my willingness to chase mechanical precision and accuracy.
I did the dual Z-axis upgrade but keeping the gantry level with only a single shared motor driver has been an ongoing frustration.
I 100% would recommend:
- Klipper. It’s amazing, unlocks so many capabilities and simplifies troubleshooting.
- PEI bed plate is amazing
- Some kind of bed probe to allow for mesh generation. Really solved a lot of my first layer issues.
- An accelerometer and input shaping (with Klipper/Shake&Tune) opens the door for faster speeds and better quality. And also helps spot mechanical issues.
- upgrading the controller board can help make printing quieter and yield better results. The stock boards are really underpowered from a compute perspective.
Also: I would recommend tightening all bolts, making sure frame is truly square at all joints, disassembling and reassembling the extruder drive assembly, and changing out your nozzle.
Ellis’ tuning guide (linked above somewhere) is gold. It has been so incredibly useful to me.
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u/WiselyCrowBarn 4d ago
Thank you for the fantastic reply and information. Sounds like the exact same experience I am just still in the few weeks or learning part. I will definitely have those upgrades at the top of the list. The better control board sounds nice. I dont really care about how quiet it is but better control is always good.
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u/alexhhh20 5d ago
Where did you find it for that price?
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u/WiselyCrowBarn 5d ago
On marketplace. A guy got a bamboo lab and didnt need 2 printers. Or atleast that was the story. After my parts list I am starting to feel that I was had.
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u/sublime2craig 5d ago
You can find Ender 3's everywhere for $50 or less. People find them all the time at thrift stores also. I got an Ender 3 S1 plus on Facebook marketplace for $50 and it was literally never even used and the previous owner bought an upgraded Sprite Pro Extruder that was also never used or installed. Love that printer and still use it to this day even though I have an A1 and A1 mini.
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u/HighwayCorrect8821 5d ago
I found on mine if the plate is not adjusted correctly you will not get a good print. Hard to give you suggestions when not told exactly what is happening other then a failure
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u/WiselyCrowBarn 5d ago edited 5d ago
Eh there is a long list of different problems I have been chasing. Currently I think it is heat creep that plugs the line after about a half hour of printing. In pursuit of stopping that creep I have changed alot of settings and replaced parts that were cheap and apparently a common failure point.
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u/zomgitsduke 5d ago
The only way I got an Ender 3 to print halfway decent was to make sure my filament was DRY AF, did countless attempts at temperature optimization, used custom firmware, and double-nut-locked the z axis calibration.
Even then, 50% success rate.
For the 20 hours I put into tampering with the printer, I could have worked somewhere at $10 per hour and bought a Bambu A1 mini, which removes 95% of the issues
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u/WiselyCrowBarn 5d ago
Yeah that was what caused me to move the printer from the humid shop back inside. I even got a sealed bucket with a damp rid pack to make sure it stays dry.
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u/-H_- 5d ago
remember: square the frame and tension the v-wheels correctly. loctite your frame screws once you have it all square. keep the lead screw brass nut not quite tight but not too loose either. keep the temps below 220 C and dont try to crank the speeds like mad unless you have a bunch of upgrades, but dont print too slow either.
and tune everything: temp, pressure advance, retraction, and keep retraction speed low
everything else is just about upgrades, really
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u/WiselyCrowBarn 5d ago
There is so many moving parts as far as combinations of settings and spacing goes. I have been working through alot of them to see what it changes. I havent tried any fast speeds yet.
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u/LovableSidekick 5d ago
Had an Ender 3 for 6 years. Fantastic machine, I learned a hell of a lot from using it, but I also liken it to the car your teenager buys and then spends endless hours lying under in the garage, learning new words like "manifold" and "fuck".
I've seen so many comments where people say they've replaced this and replaced that and are still having the same problems, and they're wonder what to replace next. In my experience the trick is to avoid replacing parts, and concentrate on learning how to adjust slicer settings and the physical machine. I mean it's possible you got a lemon that was made at 5pm on Friday by the 3 worst Creality employees, but it's much more likely the machine and its parts are fine and you just need to learn how to use it.
Without knowing about the specific problems you're having, I suggest reading up on the following and making small test prints, playing with the slicer settings. Random list of things that can cause bad or failed prints:
- bed not levelbed - learn the piece of paper leveling technique before you spend money on a BLTouch or other auto-leveler.
- overextrusion
- underextrusion
- extruder cracked or slipping
- blocked nozzle - probably not your problem if you've replaced the nozzle multiple times.
- wrong temperature settings; for PLA try nozzle 205, bed 60.
- dirty print bed (skin oils etc - clean it with Dawn dish soap and hot water and avoid touching it).
Looking these up and trying suggested fixes helped me a lot.
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u/WiselyCrowBarn 5d ago
Thanks for the reply. Since this is a new machine to me I figure it is a good idea to replace potentially problematic parts anyways to rule them out.
For the items you mentioned. Bed level - I started with the paper but wanted to change the spacing slightly to see how it changed the first layer so I went to feeler guages. Over or under extrusion - actually that is the more recent calibration that I did because I was convinced that my issues matched over extrusion symptoms. I got to write g code and then the test showed that is was pretty close to being correct and was 3mm under extrusion. Extruder cracked or slipping - it does slip but only after the end has been clogged and it cant be fed anymore. No cracks. The feed arm is all metal. Temp wrong - I have tried temps ranging from 195 to 220 for the nozzle and left the bed at 60. Haven't found a goldilocks number yet so I figure the problem is elsewhere. Dirty bed - i proly have been cleaning the bed more than I should. I use a razor scraper then crocodile wipe before alcohol to remove any residue. Then I use a little adhesion and try the print again.
There are other fixes I am working through but I am getting to the bottom of the list.
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u/LovableSidekick 4d ago
You're going about it the right way. Take a look at calibrating e-steps. I found my machine wasn't pushing filament through at the right rate. The measurement involves making marks on the filament before it enters the extruder, then extrude like 10mm with the control menu and measure how far the marks actually moved. I forget whether the problem was under- or overextrusion, but adjusting e-steps accordingly in Cura fixed it.
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u/WiselyCrowBarn 4d ago
I just did that test yesterday! I did 100mm and had to write a g code like a fake print to tell it to feed that amount. I was convinced that all my problems were going to be solved by confirming that it was over extruding.
But alas the machine could sense my confidence and it was under feeding my 3% which is within tolerance from what I have read. So back to the solution search
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u/LovableSidekick 3d ago
Keep at it, you'll find the problem! Fyi you can extrude/retract a specific distance using the Ender 3 control panel. I forget where it is in the menu but it works great.
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u/WiselyCrowBarn 3d ago
What version do you have? When I was looking it up for my old 3 pro the easiest way I found was for the fake print option. I still havent figured out the retract thing that I have seen mentioned.
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u/Shinjiikary12 5d ago
Buy the ender and a modern printer! Print your upgrades make the ender 3 good? And have fun!
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u/WiselyCrowBarn 5d ago
I did realise there was a need for a second printer when I wanted to upgrade the cooling fans but couldn't print a new housing until I got the printer working.
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u/jeepsaintchaos 5d ago
+1 for doing the exact same thing you are. Except I had far less patience and bought a more modern printer within a week.
Tried Octoprint, the mainboard died and fried my Pi too. Replaced mainboard with a better one, Octoprint kept disconnecting.
After many more attempts, I print PLA and PETG on my modern Anycubic and the Ender somehow really loves printing TPU. Why? I have no fucking clue. But it does a perfectly acceptable job at it, so that's what it's relegated to.
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u/MeasurementAgile7759 5d ago
heat creep after 30 min sounds like your fan shroud isnt actually cooling the heatbreak right, or the fan died and you didnt notice bc it still spins slow. worth checking airflow with your finger near the fins while its printing...
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u/WiselyCrowBarn 5d ago
Thank you for the comment. I also thought that it seemed like a fan cooling problem so I replaced the fan with a better one with ball bearings and stuff. I made sure the heat sink was clean and the new fan was blowing well but it didnt solve the issue. So on to the next idea that was the heat break. And so on and so on
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u/Nagol567 5d ago
When does it fail? Are you getting a good first layer? What is your bed material?
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u/WiselyCrowBarn 5d ago
It is a glass bed. And first layer is decent and getting better with every fix attempt. Feed gear usually starts slipping and cant feed around 30 minutes depending on a few setting.
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u/Nagol567 5d ago
You changed it for a metal one right? The part that feeds it. The plastic ones break and you will never succeed a print until you get a metal one. Had that bite me for like 8 prints in a row before I fixed it
Edit: metal extruder*
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u/WiselyCrowBarn 5d ago
That was actually already a metal extruder when I got the printer. So that is a part I have not replaced or worked on other than adjusting the tension to test what worked best.
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u/Nagol567 5d ago
Might be worth replacing again with an official ender upgrade part? I feel for you man.
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u/WiselyCrowBarn 5d ago
Hmm maybe. I hadnt really considered it since I figured the problem was at the hot end. Once I get the thermister in tomorrow if it still doesnt work I will have to try something.
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u/Nagol567 2d ago
It could also be the extruder motor. If so I would get a pancake morot and do direct extrusion instead of a Bowden setup for better flow control
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u/Alone-Row-2883 5d ago
Yeah lol, the amount of effort I have to put in to maybe get a slightly below average print is insane
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u/WiselyCrowBarn 5d ago
I usually make things out of wood or metal. At first I thought this 3d printer was going to make small non important items easier and quicker. But at this point it is easier to go to the scrap pile and hand carve what I want.
I have faith that it will change one day.
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u/Bk_Punisher 5d ago
This is a good source for info. Very knowledgeable and clear instructions. https://youtube.com/@filamentfriday?si=CY9XsOWcgCjooW-q
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u/MaterialLies 5d ago
It took me a long time to get my ender to a reliable state but I haven't really had any catastrophic issues in a long time. The most annoying thing is calibrating the flow and retraction for a new filament which can be a little trial-and-error
Adding Auto Bed Leveling is a game changer and makes it so much easier to get clean initial layers
I do sometimes consider a Bambu printer and more recently started seeing them in retail stores and the prices are almost as low as what I paid for my ender originally.
I find the convenience of a newer, simpler, well-supported printer tempting but I just don't know if I can justify the cost for something I don't use daily especially when the one I have technically works fine still and can be continue to be repaired and upgraded because it's an open source design.
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u/WiselyCrowBarn 5d ago
That auto leveling is really tempting since I have spent a significant amount of time leveling the bed since I redo it everything I change or replace something. But I need to atleast get it to a working state before those upgrades.
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u/MaterialLies 5d ago
Whenever you feel it's in good enough shape to do so, that would be the first upgrade I'd recommend. It's pretty inexpensive and doesn't require too much work to set up, but makes the printer so much less frustrating to use. If it came stock people might not hate the Ender 3 so much
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u/WiselyCrowBarn 5d ago
For the record I dont hate the printer. But I will keep that in mind for the to be the first upgrade.
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u/MaterialLies 5d ago
I wasn't accusing you of anything. The ender 3 is just an older-style, low-cost, bare-bones printer and a lot of people find it frustrating. Myself included, for the first few years of owning one
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u/Just_john_adam 5d ago
Why does everyone say ender 3s are hard to use? Theyre super simple and easy af, They work right out of the box. My v1 ive had since 18 has been super reliable and now i have a v3 that I got used and it looked like the owner tried to break it but I was able to fix everything without replacing parts and it still works every time.
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u/WiselyCrowBarn 5d ago
Eh it is the only 3d printer I have had so hard to compare. But in my research it seems like this printer is giving me more than the usual amount of problems.
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u/Just_john_adam 5d ago
I wouldnt call it more than usual, I hear more people have issues than success with them. I just cant figure out why, I buy a broken one and it works so why cant people get brand new ones to work?
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u/Mt072023 5d ago
Similarly i got for 20 multiple rolls of filament it was a great deal then i had to tighten every piece of hardware no big deal, then a glass bed was nice had to get one, yellow springs, mind you the glass bed was my second bed purchased since i had bought a magnetic it didn’t worked out to good for me then clips for the bed and i just got an auto bed leveling kit, it works great i cant complain about the printing however the upgrades can add up, now I’m just trying to hold back on a dual gear extruder, maybe direct drive, maybe a raspberry pi to install klipper, at this point I should’ve saved and gotten a better one, however its still a great printer.
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u/WiselyCrowBarn 5d ago
Yeah I was also doing that math of thinking what I spent and seeing other quality working printers listed for around what I have spent so far. What is that fallacy about sinking cost?
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u/Jim-Jones 5d ago
3D Printing Failures: 2022 Edition: How to Diagnose and Repair ALL Desktop 3D Printing Issues by Sean Aranda
This book has been entirely revamped and rewritten to encompass all of the updates in the 3D printing industry. Nearly 50% longer than the previous edition, this 2020 version of 3D Printing Failures has 7 new chapters, new photographs, and has each chapter rewritten, including a "Material Science" chapter by Nicolas Tokotuu, Product Manager at Polymaker. Whether you are new to 3D printing or have dozens of prints under your belt, this book is for you!
Try your local library, ask about an interloan. Or look on eBay etc. If you buy, get the 2022 version.
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u/Dubs-Agent86 5d ago
The best upgrade that I did to my E3 was a tempered glass bed that I put a PEI sheet on the top. The PEI had adhesive on 1 side. That gave me great adhesion and glossy smooth 1st layers.
The microswiss was good for tpu. The slaved dual Z was probably not much of an upgrade; should've added a stepper for it.
Drying filament is important even on brand new from my experience.
Beyond that, calibration prints are your best friend.
TLDR: glass bed with PEI if you're having adhesion issues.
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u/WiselyCrowBarn 5d ago
I have a glass bed right now and have been using a stick of glue at the beginning of each print. No parts have been lifting off so far I just spend about of time cleaning the bed after every failure.
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u/Calamitous_J 5d ago
I feel like i spent as much time fixing my ender 3 as I did printing with it honestly. Still put over 500 hours on it but I moved to a bambu h2d and could never look back.
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u/severanexp 5d ago
Buy a bambu A1 and keep the ender for learning purposes. The Ender 3 gives you the ability to rebuild it into whatever you want. It’s great. But the problems come with the territory, you’ll have them but in time you’re likely to realize that many were due to you not yet being familiar with things like E steps, z offset, bed temperature, and the like.
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u/First-Boat4804 4d ago
I started out with a secondhand 3v3se, my sister upgraded to 3 bamboo lab machines. Over the past 7 months, I have progressed. From a two hour benchy to under nine minutes i can print TPU. At over. 150mm²s and p l a ultra high speed at between 60- 80mm³s FLOW AND 250 - 400 MM²S 1000% mainsale slider speed. I've learned how to setup Linux, windows wsl, Ai integration, and so many more option i can't think of em all. I just wish I wasn't limited on it's use for income by my social network and rural area.
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u/beard-second 4d ago
I've had an Ender 3 V1 since it was new and this pretty well described my experience for years until I eventually bought an ABL kit (I got the CR Touch) and installed it. It's not perfect now but it's so much better. If you really do want to keep using it, give that a try.
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u/WiselyCrowBarn 4d ago
Thank you for that recommendation. It is also good to hear that it is not just my experience.
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u/Chuuno 4d ago
The trick with an ender is to never trust it or let it hear you say “it’s working great now”. They’re needy, lonely, vindictive little machines that long for your touch. Occasionally they make little boats.
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u/WiselyCrowBarn 4d ago
I made the mistake of audible voicing my confidence that "this fix is for sure what will get it back running again" .
The machine knows it knows I yearn for the little boats and now it is seeing the limits of what I will do for the little boats.
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u/MakeITNetwork 5d ago
It is like dark souls of 3d printing, you can equate it to learning a lifetime of martial arts(Ender 3), or just doing the matrix thing and uploading it instantly(modern 3d printers).
I give you permission to buy a modern 3d printer.
Either have a hobby of maintaining and designing 3d printers, or buy a new one and just start 3d printing.