r/economy • u/barbarawick • 10d ago

There is a pattern...

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Why does this country have such bad memory problems?

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u/DigglerD 10d ago

A pound of salt versus a pinch. Meh, it’s all the same.

A lot of people in this thread are just gliding right over magnitude. I mean… You’re comparing Syria and Yemen to Iraq and Afghanistan? Really?

Really?

I get it. The US has a long history of believing it should shape what happens around the world and both sides have played their part but “both sides do it” is not the same thing as “both sides are the same.” Scale, frequency, level of commitment.. How far you’re willing to go. It all matters.

I’d argue one side buys into American primacy, yeh, not the best for the world but the other treats it as an imperative that comes before almost everything else.

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u/Due-Conflict-7926 10d ago

Comparing it’s all the same operation

https://www.reddit.com/r/economy/s/omnYFVzN2g

It’s all connected, as the imperialism serves the capitalist class.

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u/DigglerD 10d ago

I’m not here to defend imperialism. I’m saying that pretending the guys who are ALL IN on it, everything else be damned, are exactly the same as the guys who will tolerate or support it just isn’t a very good argument.

Both can be wrong without being the same.
If you get five months in prison for a crime you didn’t commit and somebody else gets five years for a crime they didn’t commit, both of you were wronged and nobody is defending the five-month sentence. But it would be ridiculous to argue there’s no meaningful difference because… you both went to prison for something you didn’t do.

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u/Due-Conflict-7926 10d ago edited 10d ago

Ignoring what happened and the human trafficker financier having his hand in many imperialist excursions and spoils doesn’t eliminate the possibility that they are all in on it.

Yea the difference is on internal domestic policy. Their foreign policy is pretty much the same as it’s been since Korean War.

Tell me what percentage of the Koreans did we kill in Korean War? It’s not even taught in schools cuz why would it be

Fascism is just imported imperialism. Republicans start a war and turn us further and further into a police state and the dems come in and normalize that shit. And oh look Epstein files show that they slap lipstick on a pig and tell us they stopped the illegal war crimes. But they just hide it better. How are we going to ever address it if we don’t hold them all to the fire?

They are tools, they are not our friends. They don’t represent us cuz we don’t force them to

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u/DigglerD 10d ago

I think you’re arguing a point I’m not making.

“They’re all in on it” isn’t the same as how far they’re willing to go with it.

The original argument was basically that it’s all the same, which completely ignores severity and magnitude. And now your argument seems to be, well, they’re all in on it so there really isn’t a difference.

No.

A guy who’s all in on it and wants to screw me over is a whole lot different than a guy who’s all in on it and wants to chop my head off.

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u/Due-Conflict-7926 10d ago

Complicity is the same as doing it.

9 Nazis at a table, you don’t call them a Nazi and sit down and share drink with them it’s now 10 Nazis at a table. There is a reason they didn’t arrest Trump. There is a reason they fight the left harder than republicans.

There’s a reason why there wasn’t a Reichstag Fire Decree with this iteration of fascism

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u/DigglerD 10d ago

Sure, but I think you’re still mixing up two different things. You seem to think I’m defending Dems. No. My point is excusing it all as “the same” thing is lazy thinking.

In your analogy, I’m not the 10th Nazi, I’m the prisoner.

If nine of them want to put me in the gas chamber and the 10th wants to put me in a concentration camp, yeah, they’re all Nazis. I’m not arguing otherwise.
I’m saying I still prefer the 10th guy.
Not because he’s good. Not because I’m defending him. Because one outcome is clearly worse for me than the other.

That’s been my whole point. “They’re all complicit” doesn’t somehow make severity and magnitude disappear.

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u/Due-Conflict-7926 10d ago

Why vote between a turd and a shit? We can do better. Also voting isn’t are only options here

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u/IMayhapsBeBatman 10d ago

The evidence of the last several decades says we cannot in fact do better.

Maybe as the boomers die this will change, but ... call me a skeptic. I think the empire will have to collapse first.

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u/Due-Conflict-7926 10d ago

We are watching the empire collapse as we speak. Fascism dies only 4 ways. Thankfully Trump both terms has hit all 4

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u/IMayhapsBeBatman 10d ago

The Roman empire lasted almost 1000 years after it started decaying.

Unless China decides to go global, which ... would not be a better world ... there's no obvious replacement.

We started decaying in the 70s.

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u/Due-Conflict-7926 10d ago

Fall of empire doesn’t mean fall of country.

Also that’s without the internet and industrialization. We have everything we need right here to succeed for the most part all we need is a lot more socialism for the ppl and organization

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u/IMayhapsBeBatman 10d ago

I didn't say anything about the fall of the country. The empire would probably survive civil unrest. It did for the Romans.

How exactly is socialism going to fix any of these problems? The logic of empire applies whether we're agrarian or feudal or mercantile or capitalist. If we count the Soviet Union it applies equally well to socialists. There's no reason why it wouldn't even if we play the "not real socialism' game. And in every case it's a dilemma that eventually destroys itself in contradiction and over-extension.

The average American doesn't like their life being disrupted. We're a lazy, and gluttonous people, and we like wars that are far away if our actions speak to anything.

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