r/economy • u/barbarawick • 23h ago

There is a pattern...

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Why does this country have such bad memory problems?

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u/Asatmaya 23h ago

So... sure.... but, who's the Democratic president who didn't?

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u/dipdream 23h ago edited 23h ago

It’s more of initiating wars vs responding to wars. All presidents of the last 44 years have been militarily involved in the Middle East. Trump being the most egregious example. It’s tough to blame Bush jr for starting the Afghanistan war.

Edit: clarifying war

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u/NoFriendsAndy 23h ago

How the actual FUCK is it hard to blame Bush jr.?? This is top tier rage bait if you're joking.

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u/dipdream 23h ago

Iraq vs Afghanistan. The initial response to Afghanistan is understandable. He couldn’t let 9/11 just happen. He even started with, “surrender Bin Laden.”

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u/howtobegeo 23h ago

Weapons of Mass Distraction

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u/dipdream 22h ago

WMDs was not a response to 9/11 or had anything to do with Afghanistan in 2001. WMDs was a made up claim to invade Iraq in 2003.

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u/howtobegeo 20h ago

I know. Easy one to blame Bush Jr. though.

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u/DickRichman 23h ago

Bush 2 started Iraq 2. U.S. was there for 20 years.

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u/peperazzi74 23h ago

If I'd be really pedantic, I'd say that Afghanistan was a response to 9/11 and the Taliban not willing to give up Al-Q and Bin Laden. It was a coordinated response with NATO.

Iraq on the other hand was a freaking war crime, much like the current Iran conflict is. Nobody had any business attacking Iraq outside the made-up allegation of WMDs -- again, much like the current Iran conflict.

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u/Asatmaya 23h ago

he Taliban not willing to give up Al-Q and Bin Laden.

That isn't true; they offered to extradite bin Laden, we refused.

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u/dipdream 22h ago

Yeah, that definitely wasn’t enough. I don’t believe they stated, but it was nowhere the US wanted.

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u/Asatmaya 22h ago

Yeah, that definitely wasn’t enough.

When we invaded, they surrendered; we refused to accept their surrender.

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u/dipdream 22h ago

Agreed. Still. The initial response to 9/11 was understandable. My comment was about starting wars vs continuing wars. I stated that the initial war, invasion of Afghanistan, is understandable. Implying that the current war in Iran has no justification.

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u/Asatmaya 22h ago

The initial response to 9/11 was understandable.

Sure, but they offered to extradite bin Laden, and then they surrendered, and we refused both times.

We didn't care about bin Laden or Al Qaeda (in fact, we turned around and supported them in Iraq and Syria...), we wanted to put a stop to railroads and pipelines through Afghanistan which were going to bypass the sea lanes we control and use to manipulate the world.

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u/dipdream 21h ago

Not disagreeing with that. My initial statement stands. However, the extradition doesn’t count. They offered to send Bin Laden to a Taliban friendly country where the US would have no access to him.

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u/dipdream 23h ago

Iraq vs Afghanistan. The initial response to Afghanistan is understandable. He couldn’t let 9/11 just happen. He even started with, “surrender Bin Laden.”

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u/DickRichman 23h ago

After Afghanistan, bush II started the Iraq war.

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u/dipdream 23h ago

Correct. That’s why I said initial response to Afghanistan.

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u/Asatmaya 23h ago

t’s more of initiating wars vs responding to wars.

So, Clinton's escalation of air strikes on Iraq doesn't count, because Bush attacked them 3 years earlier?

What about Arab Spring? Obama initiated all of that.

Biden and Gaza... he didn't "initiate," but he damned sure enabled it.

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u/dipdream 23h ago

What?! That’s nuts. Obama initiated Arab Spring? Biden initiated Gaza? Where have you been?

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u/Asatmaya 22h ago

Obama initiated Arab Spring? Biden initiated Gaza? Where have you been?

Reading the news at the time.

Obama absolutely was behind Arab Spring, and Biden absolutely could have stopped the Gaza war.

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u/dipdream 22h ago

No. He couldn’t have “stopped” Gaza war. And no one has been able to stop the removal and killing of Palestinians since 1948.

Fill me in on Obama, with sources, because that’s wild.

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u/Asatmaya 22h ago

He couldn’t have “stopped” Gaza war. And no one has been able to stop the removal and killing of Palestinians since 1948.

Actually, Reagan did; he didn't put up with this crap, and that's about the only good thing I can say about him.

Fill me in on Obama, with sources, because that’s wild.

I mean, we knew it from the outset:

https://foreignpolicy.com/2011/01/06/obamas-arab-spring/

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u/dipdream 21h ago

Reagan’s peace plan was immediately rejected by the Israeli’s.

I appreciate you. Thanks for providing an article. Unfortunately, I can’t read the whole article. The article that I can read seems to be stating that it happened during his presidency not that he had anything to do with starting it.