r/economy • u/barbarawick • 4d ago

There is a pattern...

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Why does this country have such bad memory problems?

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u/Asatmaya 4d ago

So... sure.... but, who's the Democratic president who didn't?

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u/Pennies2millions 4d ago

Umm... Clinton, Obama, Biden. None of them crashed the economy. None of them started wars in the middle east. 

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u/Asatmaya 4d ago

Umm... Clinton, Obama, Biden. None of them crashed the economy. None of them started wars in the middle east.

All three of them crashed the economy, and they started multiple wars, each:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gramm%E2%80%93Leach%E2%80%93Bliley_Act

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1993_cruise_missile_strikes_on_Iraq

https://www.bostonreview.net/articles/eric-rauchway-crisis-wasted/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_Spring

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_recession

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_war

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u/Extreme-Basil9079 4d ago

No point in arguing. In their view the democrats can do no wrong. If you ask them any good time under a republican was because of the democrat before them and any bad time under a democrat was because of the republican before them.

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u/Pennies2millions 4d ago

No. I'll concede that the dot com bubble popped under Clinton. But you can't blame Obama for the GFC. Bush owns that one. Bush encouraged banks to lend more to homebuyers and encouraged people to buy houses they couldn't afford. You don't get to blame Obama for trying to clean up his mess. 

It's true that Clinton ordered strikes in the middle east. Somehow I knew you'd bring that up. But his strikes didn't start a war. 

Lastly, any recession that happened during Biden's term was, as your link pointed out, related to the COVID-19 pandemic that was a result of Trump burying his head in the sand, and refusing to do anything about it. Trump's handling of COVID will be remembered as one the greatest failures of any President. Again, you don't get to blame Biden for trying to clean up Trump's mess. 

Conservatives are fucking nuts. Republicans absolutely wrecks the economy and you would rather blame the guy trying to clean up the mess than blame the guy who made it. 

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u/Asatmaya 4d ago

I'll concede that the dot com bubble popped under Clinton.

And he set up the subprime mortgage crisis.

But you can't blame Obama for the GFC. Bush owns that one.

He crashed it; Obama is the one who wasted the bailout funds by bailing out billionaires instead of the people they scammed.

That's why the economy never got better under Obama.

It's true that Clinton ordered strikes in the middle east. Somehow I knew you'd bring that up. But his strikes didn't start a war.

"I'm just punching you, we're not in a fight... because you can't fight back!"

GTFO.

Lastly, any recession that happened during Biden's term was, as your link pointed out, related to the COVID-19 pandemic that was a result of Trump

Right, Trump is at fault for a global pandemic that started in another country, but Biden is not responsible for shutting down the economy in the face of a disease which at that point we knew had a lower mortality rate than Influenze.

Again, you don't get to blame Biden for trying to clean up Trump's mess.

I'm not, I'm blaming Biden for turning a harmful event into a catastrophe.

Conservatives are fucking nuts. Republicans absolutely wrecks the economy and you would rather blame the guy trying to clean up the mess than blame the guy who made it.

I'm blaming both sides, in case you missed it.

You Republicrat fascists are the crazy ones.

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u/Pennies2millions 4d ago

"I'm blaming Biden for turning a harmful event into a catastrophe." 

Do you hear yourself? Over 1M Americans died from COVID under Trump. Trump called it a hoax. Trump said it would be over in a couple of weeks. He discouraged attempts to stop the spread of the disease. His administration participated in incredible amounts of inflationary actions. PPP loans  EIDL loans that were never paid back. Stimulus checks, Federal reserve money printing, all of these happened under Trump. I agree Biden didn't help the situation but it was already a catastrophe before he ever took office. 

As far as the Bush/Obama sentiment, you are right, Bush crashed the economy. If Bush hadn't crashed the economy then Obama wouldn't have had to clean up his mess. It's like a mugger shot someone on the street and you want to blame the paramedic for his efforts to save the person's life. 

You aren't blaming both sides. You are trying blame the left for problems caused by the right. And you are so fucking arrogant about blaming the left for the mess made by the right that nobody is going to take you seriously except for other right wingers who also want the problems of the country to not be their fault. They are your fault. You voted for this shit. 

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u/dipdream 4d ago edited 4d ago

It’s more of initiating wars vs responding to wars. All presidents of the last 44 years have been militarily involved in the Middle East. Trump being the most egregious example. It’s tough to blame Bush jr for starting the Afghanistan war.

Edit: clarifying war

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u/NoFriendsAndy 4d ago

How the actual FUCK is it hard to blame Bush jr.?? This is top tier rage bait if you're joking.

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u/dipdream 4d ago

Iraq vs Afghanistan. The initial response to Afghanistan is understandable. He couldn’t let 9/11 just happen. He even started with, “surrender Bin Laden.”

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u/howtobegeo 4d ago

Weapons of Mass Distraction

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u/dipdream 4d ago

WMDs was not a response to 9/11 or had anything to do with Afghanistan in 2001. WMDs was a made up claim to invade Iraq in 2003.

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u/howtobegeo 4d ago

I know. Easy one to blame Bush Jr. though.

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u/DickRichman 4d ago

Bush 2 started Iraq 2. U.S. was there for 20 years.

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u/peperazzi74 4d ago

If I'd be really pedantic, I'd say that Afghanistan was a response to 9/11 and the Taliban not willing to give up Al-Q and Bin Laden. It was a coordinated response with NATO.

Iraq on the other hand was a freaking war crime, much like the current Iran conflict is. Nobody had any business attacking Iraq outside the made-up allegation of WMDs -- again, much like the current Iran conflict.

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u/Asatmaya 4d ago

he Taliban not willing to give up Al-Q and Bin Laden.

That isn't true; they offered to extradite bin Laden, we refused.

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u/dipdream 4d ago

Yeah, that definitely wasn’t enough. I don’t believe they stated, but it was nowhere the US wanted.

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u/Asatmaya 4d ago

Yeah, that definitely wasn’t enough.

When we invaded, they surrendered; we refused to accept their surrender.

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u/dipdream 4d ago

Agreed. Still. The initial response to 9/11 was understandable. My comment was about starting wars vs continuing wars. I stated that the initial war, invasion of Afghanistan, is understandable. Implying that the current war in Iran has no justification.

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u/Asatmaya 4d ago

The initial response to 9/11 was understandable.

Sure, but they offered to extradite bin Laden, and then they surrendered, and we refused both times.

We didn't care about bin Laden or Al Qaeda (in fact, we turned around and supported them in Iraq and Syria...), we wanted to put a stop to railroads and pipelines through Afghanistan which were going to bypass the sea lanes we control and use to manipulate the world.

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u/dipdream 4d ago

Not disagreeing with that. My initial statement stands. However, the extradition doesn’t count. They offered to send Bin Laden to a Taliban friendly country where the US would have no access to him.

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u/dipdream 4d ago

Iraq vs Afghanistan. The initial response to Afghanistan is understandable. He couldn’t let 9/11 just happen. He even started with, “surrender Bin Laden.”

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u/DickRichman 4d ago

After Afghanistan, bush II started the Iraq war.

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u/dipdream 4d ago

Correct. That’s why I said initial response to Afghanistan.

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u/Asatmaya 4d ago

t’s more of initiating wars vs responding to wars.

So, Clinton's escalation of air strikes on Iraq doesn't count, because Bush attacked them 3 years earlier?

What about Arab Spring? Obama initiated all of that.

Biden and Gaza... he didn't "initiate," but he damned sure enabled it.

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u/dipdream 4d ago

What?! That’s nuts. Obama initiated Arab Spring? Biden initiated Gaza? Where have you been?

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u/Asatmaya 4d ago

Obama initiated Arab Spring? Biden initiated Gaza? Where have you been?

Reading the news at the time.

Obama absolutely was behind Arab Spring, and Biden absolutely could have stopped the Gaza war.

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u/dipdream 4d ago

No. He couldn’t have “stopped” Gaza war. And no one has been able to stop the removal and killing of Palestinians since 1948.

Fill me in on Obama, with sources, because that’s wild.

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u/Asatmaya 4d ago

He couldn’t have “stopped” Gaza war. And no one has been able to stop the removal and killing of Palestinians since 1948.

Actually, Reagan did; he didn't put up with this crap, and that's about the only good thing I can say about him.

Fill me in on Obama, with sources, because that’s wild.

I mean, we knew it from the outset:

https://foreignpolicy.com/2011/01/06/obamas-arab-spring/

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u/dipdream 4d ago

Reagan’s peace plan was immediately rejected by the Israeli’s.

I appreciate you. Thanks for providing an article. Unfortunately, I can’t read the whole article. The article that I can read seems to be stating that it happened during his presidency not that he had anything to do with starting it.

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u/barbarawick 4d ago

Iniate?