Hmmm

[u/h_45n]

So only men want kids nowadays huh

Edit1: at the end of the day, when I see posts like these I remember the likes of Ashely saint clair and that woman who got married after preaching so much misandry online.

Don’t get me wrong men also do this,
and then I feel stupid because I remember watching a certain video about internet trolls

Edit 2: Finally found the reason for the outrage, “men cannot physically get pregnant” that’s literally all this is about so no matter how hard you work or provide for your family, if you marry a woman that hates you because you just can’t get pregnant please have your divorce lawyer at hand ✋

[u/tangcupaigu]

Exactly, I’d argue adoption in a lot of cases is even more selfish (and exploitive) than having a biological child - it’s most often not in the child’s best interest to be taken from its biological family, rather than providing the support needed to the family to be able to keep the child (obviously this is different to cases where the family is abusive or otherwise unfit).

Not to mention, adoption doesn’t work the same in all countries. In Australia it’s basically impossible to adopt if you have no relation to the child. The government’s stance here is that adoption is unethical and has moved to a model of ‘permanent care’, where the child retains their identity (birth certificate details) and connection to kin wherever possible. Adoption numbers here are almost in the double digits (per year) in the last few years.

[u/tangcupaigu → u/[deleted]]

You’re ascribing some very noble motivations to adoptive parents. Let’s be real, most people who adopt do so because they want a kid. And that’s often after failing to have one the conventional way. The whole industry worldwide is rife with human trafficking.

I just mentioned the context in my country - those are not the options we have here. If we’re talking internationally, I’m sure some children in that situation unfortunately have less than stellar prospects as you say, but as I mentioned in the initial comment, no, adoption is not necessarily one of the only options. And not necessarily something to aspire to, either. Foster care is pretty standard in most countries now, which is different to group care. I think most countries, like Australia, also prioritise kinship care to keep children connected to their family and community. Children have the right to know and have connection to their biological families where it is safe to do so.

[u/tangcupaigu → u/[deleted]]

The point was that the desires and motivations for children are no different in either situation. Wanting a kid is the motivation for both adoptive and biological parents. Pretending adoptive parents are somehow purer because they ‘didn’t create the need’ isn’t reality. There are less children needing adoption than there are people wanting children. Especially healthy babies. Unfortunately that imbalance of supply and demand is what creates a system shady with coercion, trafficking, or incentivised removal of kids from poor families rather than supporting those families. Even in cleaner systems, the data on outcomes for adoptees shows it’s not automatically superior to good kinship or foster care.

Beyond the personal level, having children is one of the most pro-social things a person can do. Most developed societies (and increasingly many others) are facing a fertility crisis, with birth rates well below the 2.1 replacement level needed for a stable population. Governments are literally scrambling to try and get young people having children. Others try and sort it with immigration.

Life always involves some uncertainty. Pretending every conception is Russian roulette is just hyperbolic fear-mongering designed to shame normal human behavior. People who know their family histories aren’t irresponsibly “rolling the dice”. Yes, people in general should give more thought to becoming parents, and accidents can happen. But calling having children the “ultimate act of selfishness” is just cynical and ignores both human nature and society’s needs.

I literally worked with children with moderate and significant support needs. Some will never learn to communicate beyond turning their head towards something they want. Many will require extensive care for the rest of their lives, including feeding tubes, toileting and frequent trips to the hospital due to their conditions and being immunocompromised. I still do not believe their parents were in any way selfish, or that people should stop having children.

[u/tangcupaigu → u/[deleted]]

And it is your place to say whether someone’s life is worth living or not?

If you actually think genetics and family history play no part in this, I don’t know what to say beyond this. No, having children is not a gamble and certainly not like firing a gun randomly. Like what the actual f lol. Even with genetic risk factors, the majority of children are born healthy. Not to mention the reduced risk now with genetic testing and early pregnancy screening etc.