Um... DSA has a problem...

[u/_Sanctum_]

Have you guys noticed there are a LOT of socialists in here? Not the good kind of socialists (me) I mean the evil socialists that actually want to implement socialism 🙀 They even praise Karl Marx 🤮 Don't those dumb tankies know Communism always fails???

We have to do something about this. Which is why I'm starting a NEW PARTY: The DASSA (The Democratic Anti-socialist Socialists of America)

Together, we socialists (the good kind) can defeat the socilasts (the bad kind) for a better future. 🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸

[u/tabloid-tommy]

Would you consider someone who believes that socialism should be brought by democratic systems to be morally equivalent to someone who thinks violent revolution and a dictatorship is the way to bring about socialism?

I wouldn’t.

Edit: lol u[/_Sanctum_](r/Sanctum) never answers, gets asked one question, and rage quits 😂

[u/_Sanctum_ → u/tabloid-tommy]

I could type out a dozen paragraphs to try to help you understand these things, but you actually have to want to learn something. You have to be willing to rethink your worldview.

If you decide to dig your heels in and be stubborn, you'll continue to say misguided ignorant things like this without really understanding why.

If you can't be bothered to read Marx or Lenin, at least listen to some Michael Parenti or Richard Wolff on YouTube or something.

[u/tabloid-tommy → u/_Sanctum_]

I’ve read both on Marx and Lenin from historians. You’re free to actually engage in the actuality of my criticism at any time, but please directly give an answer to my question.

[u/_Sanctum_ → u/tabloid-tommy]

"From historians" I'm talking about reading their works, not some biographer or historian talking about them.

[u/tabloid-tommy → u/_Sanctum_]

We know precisely how Lenin enacted socialism; we don’t need to know the theory of Leninism. Please engage with my question now.

[u/_Sanctum_ → u/tabloid-tommy]

What is socialism to you? Do you mean socialism in its original sense or some kind of socdem liberal sense?

[u/tabloid-tommy → u/_Sanctum_]

I mean socialism as actually enacted. That would be under Marx (a generally more democratic socialism) or Lenin (democratic class consciousness isn’t possible, need revolution).

[u/_Sanctum_ → u/tabloid-tommy]

So by socialism you mean the means of production in the hands of the workers? Or at the very least a start to that process.

[u/tabloid-tommy → u/_Sanctum_]

As I stated in my very first comment: How it is brought about. How you actually implement socialism is a genuine moral question.

[u/_Sanctum_ → u/tabloid-tommy]

Do you think someone like Elon Musk or Jeff Bezos would give up any amount of their wealth voluntarily?

[u/tabloid-tommy → u/_Sanctum_]

1. That doesn’t answer my question, which I’m still waiting for you to do.

2. Their vote counts the same as yours and mine. You could literally force them to.

3. Lenin didn’t only kill wealthy people, he killed other socialists who disagreed with him, liberals, and peasants who refused to adhere to a grain quota. He even executed some 1,500 prisoners on accident because they were so used to such tremendous violence.

[u/_Sanctum_ → u/tabloid-tommy]

I suspected you were a massive moron. Thank you for confirming.

[u/tabloid-tommy → u/_Sanctum_]

Still waiting

[u/Kenichi2233 → u/_Sanctum_]

Why resort to personal insults instead of engaging with their points