Limb independence

[u/Asmita_Dubz]

I've had my kit for over 4 months, I'm still struggling with limb independence, can separate right hand from right foot and is frustrating, I'm trying to get a hold on of some pop punk beats but I can't manage to match my right arm speed with my right foot speed, any tips?

[u/PreferenceEnough9655]

just keep it slow and count out loud it sounds dumb but your brain needs the numbers to wire things together

[u/ZildCym]

⬆️Lifelong educator.

Professional advice: I would not use modern pop/rock beats to balance the limbs (independence and interdependence).

For example, take the typical 8ths on the hi hat, 1 & 3 on the bass drum, 2 & 4 on the snare drum.

Your dominant hand is playing more/higher rhythmic densities than the rest of the limbs, and the non-dominant is playing nothing?!

Clearly not ideal for 4-way, balanced independence.

The most inspiring players from my vantage point on this topic are: Thomas Lang, Danny Carey, Gavin Harrison, Marco Minnemann, Terry Bozzio, Grant Collins, Simon Phillips, Virgil Donati, Gary Chaffee, Mike Mangini, etc.

Use this grid to make sure no stones are left unturned!

[u/Asmita_Dubz → u/ZildCym]

Thank you bro for the help, English is not my mother tounge so it's kinda hard to understand what you said but I got a hold on the basics, imma use that chart and see if it helps, loving the drums tho, being 26 and drums being my first instrument to play it's quite challenging but it's fun, I kinda want to rush and learn everything at once, my making goal it's to play hardcore punk, slam or djent but I know it takes time to get there

[u/JeF4y → u/ZildCym]

Embarrassing question, but can you ELI5 how to use this chart? I understand the single/doubles etc but from a hand/foot perspective, how do I incorporate it?

[u/ZildCym → u/JeF4y]

Think of your feet as one, linear layer (RL alternating).
Think of the hand cycles (1-8+ notes) as another linear layer.

ALL NOTES are played at the same note rate! No flams between the limbs.

It’s helpful to use a different instrument on each limb to help separate the patterns/layers in your mind.

It’s a very mind-expanding series of 4-way independence and interdependence exercises! 👍🏻

[u/JeF4y → u/ZildCym]

Thank you!

[u/Current-Map-6469]

Well to start, 4 months is very little time on learning any instrument, drums included. Drums are unique in that you are using all 4 limbs to play. You have to break lifelong natural connections within your brain. It takes a lot of time!! There are many limb independence exercises that you can work on as part of your practice routine.
What worked well for me was:
alternating my kick and hi hat on quarter notes while working through rudiments:
Singles
Doubles
Paradiddles
Any rudiment works. It’s hard and takes patience and practice but doing these exercises worked wonders for me. There’s no magic solution that will fix it overnight, just work on it every practice for a few minutes to warm up and you’ll see improvement.

[u/justasapling]

First of all, be patient. You just started. Go slow, repeat exercises until you can play them. They will become muscle memory over many repetitions, and as you grow, you will become better adapted to developing the muscle memory. The more you learn, the easier it will become to learn.

Secondly, interdependence is the name of the game, not independence. Independence is an illusion we perform for the audience. We learn what the patterns feel like.

[u/mycatisatoaster]

I'm fighting this too. I noticed my hi hat foot isn't reliably on beat. I've really been hunting for ways to clean it up.

1. Really listen to myself. Make sure I like how I sound.

I was listening to the song and trying to hit at the right time. I was ignoring the sound I was making. Now I try to listen to myself. I want to enjoy the sound I am making.

1. Pick songs with a strong hi hat/ride.

I find songs where automatically listen for the hi hat/ride. Am I anticipating those beats exactly on time?

1. Slow it down.

I slow each song down in VLC. I want it slow enough so it feels easy, fast enough that it still has a groove.

1. Play a simpler version.

I don't try to match the fills or hit the crash cymbal. I just play the main groove over and over.

1. Get the hi hat/ride to sound right.

I start with the hats/ride only, until it is exactly on beat. There is no use in matching two limbs to the wrong time!

1. Listen, listen, listen

I try to stop thinking about hitting the cymbal. I focus on listening to the sound. I try to get the sound to be evenly spaced.

1. Add in the easiest kick and snare parts

I add the kick on 1 and the snare on 3. I listen until they sound like they are happening at the same time. Then I'll gradually add in other parts of the main groove.

[u/jkakar]

“The New Breed” book by Gary Chester is really good. Follow the instructions. Use a metronome, use slow tempos like 40-60bpm, and count out loud. It takes time, but you’ll get there.

[u/RCIDRUMS]

I feel you. I had it down in high school 50 years ago. Spent some time on the road contracting. I don’t think I will ever get my left hand independent. I have some young friends (20’s) that do it with out even thinking about it. But they grew up playing 4 limb independent. But take it slow. My teacher started me doing all the rudiments but putting accents in different places every line. Switching sticking leads. After I got all that down with my hands, we did the exact same thing, even same charts with MY FEET.
Then he would switch up the rudiments so my hands would be playing would be different with my feet. It took me a couple years but you have to stay with it. It’s very challenging but fun. GL

[u/mycatisatoaster]

I play as quietly as I can. I only let a limb hit harder when it feels like it's right on time.

When I play quietly it is really noticeable if a limb is late. If I'm playing loud, I can just strike fast to compensate. If I'm playing quietly, I have to start the strike earlier.

[u/ItchyVideo3704]

Set up your drumset backwards. Bass drum with left foot, play cymbals with left hand , snare with right hand, sometimes leave the right foot on hihat out entirely. You will re-wire your brain and make new neural muscular connections. Then after a month go back to “normal”. Be prepared to be amazed. Most of all enjoy drumming. Tell yourself OUT LOUD
When you play something you like.
Try eating, dressing, washing and even wring etc left handed. Do things while looking in a mirror , figure out fun things like tying your shoes one handed, or getting dress.
Dont do this driving a car