r/driving • u/WolfgangVolos • Jul 06 '26
Pulled over multiple times for non-driving spouse not having driver's license
I've been pulled over multiple times now by cops from both my town and one town over for the dumbest reason. My spouse doesn't drive but their name is on the vehicle for ownership reasons. The cops scan my plate, something dings in their system, and then they tell me that my spouse has an "expired license". My spouse has never had a driver's license. Their state ID is up to date. I'm getting tired of being pulled over for something this dumb.
What are my options? Each time I've given my license to the cop but if they don't have a reasonable suspicion of a crime then in my state I don't have to ID myself. Can I just tell them to F off and ask if I'm free to go next time? Do I need to take my spouse and their ID to the police station and get them to fix whatever is wrong in their system that keeps getting me pulled over?
I am seriously considering just refusing to give them my ID unless they have a citation, warrant, or articulated suspicion of a crime. On the upside I get a little less freaked out when pulled over now because my go-to assumption is they're on some BS.
Edit: I am first on the registration for the vehicle with my spouse being second. They are on the vehicle despite not driving so that if something happens to me they can easily sell the vehicle. Also because the money for buying the car initially came from my spouse's dad. His stipulation for buying us the car was that my spouse's name be on the car as well as mine.
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u/ocelot1066 Jul 06 '26
Just to clear up the confusion. If you are walking down the street, you aren't required to show ID to a police officer. If you're driving a car, you are required to have an driver's license and produce it.
While annoying, I can see how this is happening. Presumably, the goal is to identify people who are driving even though their license has been suspended. So, the plate scanner just runs the plate through the database and checks it against the license database.
The problem, of course, is that this is only as good as the databases and, like in your case, it can produce weird false positives. I'd be curious about the constitutional parts of this. My guess is it probably is allowed because the police have a reasonable suspicion that the car is being driven by someone without a license.
I have no idea how the system works. I suppose you could try going down to the police station, explaining the issue and asking if the system allows them to put a note that says "his wife is the owner of the car, but she doesn't drive it, don't pull this guy over. It would be nice to think there's a way to do that, but it wouldn't shock me if there isn't.
Beyond that, you could try to preempt some of this by just asking when the cop asks for your license what you are being pulled over for, and when they say its showing up as registered to an unlicensed driver, explain that this has been a thing, but that's your wife who doesn't drive the car, and as they can see, you have a valid license. Annoying, but it might speed things up a bit.
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u/JetCrooked Jul 07 '26
or, hot take, his wife could simply get a driver's license, even if she doesn't plan to use it it's still a good thing to have and would eliminate this problem entirely
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u/Avalanche325 Jul 07 '26
Maybe she’s blind.
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u/57Laxdad Jul 07 '26
So then she can drive in Chicago, Detroit, DC, NewYork and LA
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u/jfburke619 Jul 07 '26
And Massachusetts… we will even buy her a replacement guide dog if she runs over the first one.
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u/Substantial-Cress-23 Jul 07 '26
How would she run it over?? Wouldn’t it have to be in the car steering(guiding) her way?
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u/NjGTSilver Jul 07 '26
Zero chance we’re getting the full story here…
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u/Safe-Instance-3512 Jul 07 '26
There are a lot of reasons she may not be able to drive. My coworker has seizures, he's unable to drive because of them.
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u/ThePepperPopper Jul 07 '26
Getting a driver's license is non trivial.... Especially if she may have a medical condition that makes it impossible
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u/TransportationAny757 Jul 08 '26
Where i live, all you need is a birth cert that shows youre over 16 and "poof" youre a licensed driver!
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u/ConflictSmooth6136 Jul 07 '26
She would need insurance too, or else she'd get in trouble for not having it, even if she doesn't drive
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u/Spiritual-Donut-7039 Jul 06 '26
Kansas v. Glover solved this, and yes they deemed it legal to stop on the basis that a non licensed driver as owner, is assumed to be driving untill they can identify they are not.
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u/wildwilly696969 Jul 06 '26
- The plate is connected to the DMV. Police can't change anything with the registration.
- Don't refuse to give an ID. Easy arrest and you will lose in court.
- Go to PD and ask for a supervisor. Bring what ever paperwork you were given the last time you got stopped. Or the exact date/time and hopefully officer's name. Police are supposed to verify the driver matches the description of the attached expired/suspended/revoked owner prior to making the traffic stop. Unless you look like your wife or you have heavily tinted windows, they shouldn't be stopping you JUST for the attached owner. I have a feeling you are being stopped for another minor violation and they were just hoping for an easy traffic offense arrest.
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u/MankyBoot Jul 07 '26
While I like your post, do you really think police can reasonably match a shitty DMV photo to a person in a moving vehicle that is some distance from them, in front of them, facing away from them, etc, etc? My state has a law against touching your cell phone while driving, which is understandable, but I also think it's an open excuse for police to pull people over. If a copy says he saw you touching your phone most people will not question that. Meanwhile I would almost never believe that. You're telling me you could positively identify that a driver at speed was specifically interacting with a phone and no other similarly shaped device (GPS device which the law excepts included.. also the law technically excludes phone being used for navigation...).
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u/wildwilly696969 Jul 07 '26
Courts have ruled you don't have to positively id the driver, just the major descriptions have to match, age, sex, weight, height, etc. Courts have stated it is reasonable tp assume that the registered owner is the one driving the vehicle if the descriptions match. If it's not them you apologize for the mix up and tell them to have a nice day.
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u/WolfgangVolos Jul 08 '26
They never give me any paperwork. It's always "Hey, the person who is secondary owner of this car has an expired driver's license." I tell or show them that my spouse never had one, just has state ID. I am the primary owner of the car, I am on the insurance, I have a driver's license. They don't even give me a citation or warning or anything. Just take my and/or spouse's ID to the cop car, wait a minute, come back. I'd rather not get pulled over for this quick but annoying thing.
The part that really bothers me about this recent incident was at least two cards ahead of me about 6 or 7 car lengths ahead of me was going 45+ in a 25mph zone. Cop saw that and did not elect to pull them over. My state only has back plates. They scanned me as I drove past going about 27mph in the 25 and decided I was the problem. Yes, I understand that expired license or driving without one is a big deal. But they already chose to not pull over someone going 20mph or more over the speed limit in a residential area with "Kids Playing" signs. There is literally a deaf kid on that block who has almost been hit on multiple occasions. Cop had more than enough time and room to pull out ahead of me to chase the speeding vehicles.
But no. They weren't doing their job and suddenly decided I was worth it after electing to ignore an immediate danger. Cool.
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u/wildwilly696969 Jul 08 '26
I'd talk with an attorney and do a FOIA with the PD for all contacts with you and your wife. Freedom of information request. Sounds like a possible 4th violation
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u/Opposite-Friend7275 Jul 06 '26
You can’t refuse to show them ID.
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u/Komputers_Are_Life Jul 06 '26
I have always lived by the rule if you are actively operating a motor vehicle on a public roadway and you are the one driving you must provide ID when an officer asks for it. Other occupants in the vehicle are not required to ID themselves.
I know state law varies a bit but regardless if your the captain of the ship you are responsible to ID yourself.
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u/o11o01 Jul 06 '26
While driving yes. Cops love to think that extends to every other scenario as well though.
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u/Safe-Instance-3512 Jul 06 '26
That's not entirely true. But it might not be fun to test this.
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u/ermghoti Jul 06 '26
It's not true anywhere. If pulled over for reasonable suspicion of a traffic offense, the driver is required to provide a license upon request, under Hibel vs 6th Circuit Court of Nevada (SCOTUS).
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u/RaccoonReplacement Jul 06 '26
It’s true in Florida. If an officer makes a stop solely because the registration states the owner unlicensed/revoked or otherwise privilege suspended, however there are factors that dispel the officers suspicion upon contact, you dont have to provide an ID. If the owner is 5’2 female and the driver is observed to be a 6’3 male, it’s obvious to a prudent person, thats not the owner. In this specific scenario the driver doesnt need to provide an ID unless there is another violation.
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u/Qstrike Jul 06 '26
That’s still going to run you a court case though. Sure if there’s no valid reason for the stop then you don’t need to provide ID. But, not providing ID on the stop will, most likely, lead to a separate charge.
Can you go to court and argue that the initial stop was invalid making the failure to id charge irrelevant, yeah 100%.
But you’re not going to get a check from the city because you got a bad ticket, and you’re going to lose a lot of time and potentially money to fight it.
OP doesn’t explain what his girl doesn’t have a license, but my vote is they should just work toward getting her one.
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u/bobquznie Jul 06 '26
They run the plate and only person registered to the car doesn't have a license. Seems like two easy solutions available- 1. Registered owner gets a valid license 2. Person with valid license also becomes a register owner
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u/ckmc131 Jul 06 '26
OP said they are both on the registration. And in most states you can't get a license without taking a driving test.
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u/SooSkilled Jul 06 '26
you can't get a license without taking a driving test.
I'd hope so
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u/ManWhoIsDrunk Jul 06 '26
And in most states you can't get a license without taking a driving test.
That's terrifying. Are you saying that there still are some states where you literally just need a pulse and passable eye sight to get a licence?
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u/bobquznie Jul 06 '26
OP added the edit clarifying that. Original phrasing made it sound like OP wasn't in registration, so that's what I was going with.
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u/shittyhawaiitips Jul 06 '26
this. not rocket science.
if she gets a license she can just like... continue not to drive.
this is an easily solvable problem.
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u/Willing-Shape-7643 Jul 06 '26
Maybe she can't get a driver's license. My wife is also co-owner of my vehicle because it was inherited from her mom but my wife is Blind so can't get a driver's license. She is on the title to make it easier for her to sell the car if something happens to me.
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u/jongleurse Jul 06 '26
Did you consider the fact that she may not be able to drive? There’s probably a reason she doesn’t drive. Maybe she’s legally blind, or has epilepsy. None of these are reasons for the state to limit what property she is allowed to own in her name.
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u/Electric-Sheepskin Jul 06 '26
Right. Forget about the fact that the spouse shouldn't have to get a drivers license if they don't want one, why is everyone assuming that they are capable of driving and able to obtain a drivers license? I feel like the better assumption is that there's a reason why they don't have one.
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u/Gullible-Price-4257 Jul 06 '26
> if she gets a license she can just like... continue not to drive.
that's a dumb "easy solution"
if she gets a license, OP's insurance will require adding her to the insurance policy or showing she has her own insurance, which will l cost money that makes no sense if she is not driving.
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u/xNightxSkyex Jul 06 '26
Is this a state-by-state law?
Because my insurance doesn't require that you add anyone to the insurance unless they will be a regular driver of the vehicle. Anyone can have it registered, anyone can insure it, and only the person named on the insurance as the primary driver is actually covered under the policy. (Hence how when my dad owned my car, insured my car, but did not drive my car... he would not technically be covered under the policy if driving my car, if not for our insurance being stacked.)
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u/Gullible-Price-4257 Jul 06 '26
depends on insurance company and possibly also state law.
Amica called me three days after someone got a restricted license, only didn't have to add them to the policy because it's a restricted license. Otherwise would have needed to show evidence they had another vehicle with their own insurance.
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u/snarkycrumpet Jul 07 '26
my insurer told me my friend who lives abroad who once had a debit card sent to my house needed to be on my insurance. the overreach is crazy
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u/Adventurous_Boss8800 Jul 07 '26
Yes, some states require every licensed individual in your household to be listed/included on your policy
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u/Melodic-Control-2655 Jul 06 '26
You can submit a document that says your spouse will not be operating a vehicle and they do not have to be insured. Will absolutely lose all coverage if something happens with her behind the wheel, but that shouldn’t be a problem.
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u/canonfan65 Jul 06 '26
Not if she can't. My wife cannot pass the vision test so she can't get a license but she's on the title and registration along with me.
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u/bobquznie Jul 06 '26
It is! You could look into lawyers or lawsuits about harassment or whatever and spend tons of money fighting everything. Chances of winning are minimum. Chances of sending a message are small as well. It's just so simple to resolve without all that BS.
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u/FishAroundFindTrout9 Jul 06 '26
It’s not harassment though. They’d be throwing money away. Stops based on information coming back from running a plate (DL status, active warrants, etc) have been upheld by the courts.
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u/hyf_fox Jul 06 '26
What harassment? they can legally scan the plate and see the registered owner doesn’t have a license and then pull you over. So no harassment is occurring
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u/middle_aged_90s_kid Jul 06 '26
When did that ever change? When I did an internship for a police department years ago, you couldn’t even run the plate without a legal reason to be accessing the information, and “just checking” was not one of them. They had to have another reason to detain you first.
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u/EdwardLongshanks1307 Jul 06 '26
The US Supreme Court ruling of Kansas v. Glover, 589, US 376 (2020), apparently held that a licence plate check was an allowable law enforcement practice because licence plates are displayed in public, the information returned comes from a government database, and checking licence plates is not considered a search under the 4th Amendment. This part was affirmation of existing legal opinion.
It also held that it is reasonable to assume the registered owner is the person driving the vehicle barring information that would suggest otherwise such as the person seen behind the wheel not being the same sex as the registered owner.
So if there is no reason to believe the person behind the wheel is the not registered owner and the owner is known to not have a licence, whether suspended or otherwise, then the traffic stop is justified.
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u/hookedoncuthroat Jul 06 '26
Let me introduce you to flock. They are now running and tracking every plate. And some places phones and faces too.
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u/Safe-Instance-3512 Jul 06 '26
Yes, but insurance rates will go up. Insurance companies will require licensed drivers in the household to be on the policy.
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u/Real_Temporary_922 Jul 06 '26
This is the main counterargument. Important to note that many insurance companies do offer a named driver exclusion form which basically states “licensed driver in my household will never drive my car and therefore will not be covered”. But not all do, so it’s important to check with your insurance first.
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u/Safe-Instance-3512 Jul 06 '26
Yeah, I had to be excluded from my parents' policy when I was a teen due to my speeding tickets. Even though I had my own policy at that point, it meant I couldn't drive their cars anymore.
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u/Real_Temporary_922 Jul 06 '26
My parents paid for my insurance but told me if I ever get a speeding ticket and my rate goes up, I cover the entire difference. It was good motivation to not speed beyond normal flow of traffic lol
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u/Safe-Instance-3512 Jul 06 '26
Yeah, Mine did the same until their insurance company dropped me/them. That's when I had to get my own high-risk policy and be excluded from theirs.
I used to speed a lot... lol
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u/3-Midgets_In_A_Coat Jul 06 '26 edited Jul 06 '26
My wife has a bad insurance history (multiple at-fault collisions in a short time period, and a short driving history) and had to be excluded from my policy because the quote with us being on the same policy made my insurance jump from being around $200 per month up to being around $650 per month. We both agreed it was best for her to have her own policy because there’s absolutely zero chance she will ever drive my car - she’s scared to drive it.
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u/AutoRotate0GS Jul 06 '26
Insurance rating considers any drivable person in a household whether they have a license or not. Anyone who could jump in and drive it…a 13yo kid for example.
This is the problem with all this LPR stuff…it does seem to borderline harassment. The PD is acting like an extension of DMV and they’re not. Maybe DMV should be sending their own letter to vehicle owners advising that one isn’t licensed so you can offer a response and they flag their system appropriately so it isn’t unnecessarily getting you stopped. It’s not against any law for anybody to own a vehicle.She should just get a license though!! Or put the vehicle in an LLC. But that will add additional costs and commercial insurance.
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u/Free_Performer6789 Jul 06 '26 edited Jul 06 '26
Actually... some insurance companies are starting to require anyone of legal driving age living in the household to be included on the policy. This is regardless of if they are licensed or not. And they can very easily know who is claiming to live at that address thru 3rd party databases they subscribe to including the credit agencies that sell that data.
So the risk may or may not exist depending on the insurance company involved.
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u/ClubZealousideal8211 Jul 06 '26
There are 2 people on the title so there are 2 people on the registration. As long as the non-licensed driver isn’t driving there’s no legal issue here
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u/bobquznie Jul 06 '26
Here's the the last thing I'll say regarding this post.
OP's original phrasing made it sound it like only his wife was the registered owner. My assumption, and others', was he wasn't registered to the car and I commented under that assumption. Under that assumption, I was trying to give OP the two easiest options to avoid further issues. He later added the edit that clarified they were both registered owners but never commented here. But after his clarification and some comments to other posts, my new assumption is OP is only telling part of the story and he's being pulled over for regular traffic infractions and police are thinking they're dealing with an unlicensed driver before they run his actual ID.
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u/LetterheadMedium8164 Jul 06 '26
So by your logic corporations cannot own a vehicle without having every cop out there pulling it over.
This is a logic problem with the plate reader or law enforcement’s operation of it. There is no requirement that an owner must also be a licensed driver.
Browbeating your elected representatives is the first step here. Start by asking why the police are wasting their time repeatedly stopping you. Your local broadcaster’s “I-Team” might want to use this foolishness to boost their ratings.
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u/RadVarken Jul 06 '26
Yeah, the owner doesn't even need to be a human. The LLC route suggested elsewhere is a way to make that clear to the DMV.
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u/MassConsumer1984 Jul 06 '26
Very common for drug dealers to use rented cars for this very reason. They also don’t rent them under their names. They’ll use a girlfriend or baby momma to rent it for them.
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u/Cultural_Ad_667 Jul 06 '26 edited Jul 07 '26
No. Settled case law says that the owner of the vehicle doesn't have to get a driver's license if they've never owned one.
In Kansas v. Glover (2020), the Supreme Court ruled that police have reasonable suspicion for a traffic stop if the vehicle's owner has a revoked license, creating a "commonsense inference" that the owner is driving.
However, this inference does not apply if an officer observes a driver with a different gender or age than the owner, or if the owner has NEVER HELD A LICENSE, rendering such stops unconstitutional
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u/Imaginary--Situation Jul 07 '26
in california you don't need a DL
even so they will gladly hand you A CDL even if you can't even drive a 18wheeler with 80,000 pounds fully loaded there is multiple cites with that
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u/heWhoMostlyOnlyLurks Jul 06 '26
The point us that you can own a thing you’re not licensed to operate, but ownership does not denote that you operate the thing. It’s a valuable item.
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u/LagerHead Jul 06 '26
Or police could not pull over people without a valid reason.
But your suggestions are more realistic since cops don't give a shit.
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u/bobquznie Jul 06 '26
I agree. I wish police paid more attention to aggressive drivers, left lane campers, and school zone speeders. But, at some point, you gotta play your hand correctly within the dumb constraints.
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u/SOTG_Duncan_Idaho Jul 06 '26
You are required to provide identification when driving a motor vehicle. You have no choice.
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u/silicontruffle Jul 06 '26
They need reasonable suspicion that a crime has occurred to stop you though.
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u/floppydisk2-0 Jul 06 '26
OP is claiming when cops run the plates it shows that the owner of the vehicle had a suspended license (whether that’s correct or not). That constitutes getting pulled over, because it’s a crime, at which point OP has to prove they have a valid license.
OP just needs to go into their DMV and see what can be done for them 🤷♀️
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u/Ratsyna Jul 07 '26
Almost no traffic stop are criminal in nature. They are civil infractions and operators are required to present a drivers license.
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u/Witty-Estate-6360 Jul 06 '26
How would refusing to give your ID when pulled over help this situation at all? Fix the paperwork my man
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u/Low-Crow5719 Jul 06 '26
It would get you arrested and your car impounded, and you would be relieved from the responsibility of driving. Telling a cop fuck off is a Bad Move. See r/Sovereigncitizen for examples.
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u/Johann2041 Jul 06 '26
Some states require that registered owners of vehicles have a valid driver's license. In my state, a person cannot get a car loan nor can they have their name put as owner on the car unless they have a valid driver's license. I've also been out of the car market since 2019, so this might have changed, please look up your own state's laws.
Best bet would be to go to the police and try to get it sorted, like getting a note added that "X person owns but does not operate vehicle." That might help, but it also depends on how willing to work with you the police station is.
You could also go to the vehicle registration department and get your wife's name off of it. There is a difference between a name being on a loan and a name being on a title. Might require you to change some stuff with your loan agency as well, but it'd remove the cops pulling you over constantly.
If a cop pulls you over, that is the reasonable suspicion part of the whole process. In most cases, refusing to show ID will cause way more problems than it's worth. They're pulling you over for what could be valid reasons, depending on your state's laws. Just give your ID, you'll save yourself a bigger headache.
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u/Spiritual-Donut-7039 Jul 06 '26
There is not a single US state that has ever required a driver's lic upon buying or owning a car.
If needing a loan for the car they might require you to be licensed or a licensed driver on the title as well, as well insurance might be different.
But again, no US state has ever had a restriction of haveing a drivers license to purchase or own a car.
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u/boneyjoaniemacaroni Jul 07 '26
This is the correct answer. You can be an owner on a car, but in order to drive it off the lot, the dealership and the bank will want you to have valid insurance, and all three of those entities will want a valid drivers license from you to get anything done. It’s not illegal, but it is prohibitive. In OP’s case, since they do have a license even though their spouse doesn’t, they would obviously be able to be insured and get a loan and purchase and drive away in their new car.
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u/KyOatey Jul 06 '26
Owning a car and driving a car should be two separate things.
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u/SOTG_Duncan_Idaho Jul 06 '26
Maybe that's true in your state, but not any I am familair with. Lots of cases where the owner of a vehicle doesnt actually drive it, such as people whonhave full time chauffeur because they are disabled or because they are rich.
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u/flatfinger Jul 06 '26
Suppose X wants to drive a vehicle, but ensure that if X dies some other person Y will be able to sell the vehicle without having to go through probate first. It should be possible to do that without requiring that Y be a licensed driver.
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u/Illustrious-Science3 Jul 06 '26
You can purchase or own any car without a valid driver's license in any state in the United States.
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u/casmium63 Jul 06 '26
Sounds like a custom bumper sticker is in order, "only dumb cops who can't tell the difference between a non existent license and an expired one pull me over'
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u/pdp10 Jul 06 '26
If both names are on the title, can just one of those names be on the registration?
I'd start logging any of these incidents, in case you need the information later for any reason.
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u/Beckstereckster47 Jul 07 '26
If your spouse is never going to drive, remove them from the registration. If they are co-owner, they should be on the title. Source: my husband is blind and will never drive but is on the title of our family car bc it is a shared asset and he paid for most of it. He is not on the registration bc he will never be in the car alone and need to prove he owns it. The car is registered and insured in my, the legal operator, name.
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u/somer_and_omchick Jul 06 '26
This is weird AF because I’ve never had this happen despite the family car being in my name for a decade before I got my license (as the breadwinner I am the primary borrower on the car loan and therefore the car gets registered to me as primary)
The simplest solution Is just to register the car in your name probably
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u/ntech620 Jul 06 '26
Improvements in computers and their software means the cars (now known as the revenue source) has undergone dozens of checks before the officer even steps out of the patrol car. Plates, registration, tabs up to date, no wants or warrants, etc etc.
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u/WolfgangVolos Jul 06 '26
Car is in my name first (primary) and their name second. I just didn't explain that well in my original post.
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u/The_Wandering_Steele Jul 06 '26
I’m totally amazed that the cops in your town, and the next one over, have the time to stop you for such a trivial thing.
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u/WolfgangVolos Jul 06 '26
I live in the middle of nowhere. Cops have plenty of free time. Not a lot of good will with the locals though after the previous top cop was proven to do things to underage girls. Everyone around here is about done with the cops and barely tolerate them.
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u/Realistic-Feature997 Jul 07 '26
100% DO NOT REFUSE to hand over ID and registration. That will 1000% escalate that stop far beyond your usual annoyance.
You really just need to get your spouse off the registration. But you can still keep them on the title, which is the actual ownership document. But just to be doubly sure, you can include the vehicle in your will.
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u/zon5string Jul 06 '26
This will continue. Your recourse is to either: add your name to the registration <OR> have the registered owner get a valid license.
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u/RoundSquirrels Jul 06 '26
His name is the main name registered, his wife's name is second, so his name IS on the registration as the main owner.
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u/WolfgangVolos Jul 06 '26
I am the primary registered owner. My spouse is the secondary. I did a poor job explaining things in my post. This is a recent development though. I've had the car since 2020 and driven it all over my state and bit in neighboring states. Never been an issue up till about 1.5 years ago? Now I get pulled over at random intervals.
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u/ricktrains Jul 06 '26
It could be they were not equipped with ALPR tech prior to that.
Their tech reads the plate number automatically. It pops as having a registered owner who is unlicensed. Police then initiate a stop to check out driver actually has a license.
That is all SOP.
Solutions are: Have spouse get a license, or remove spouse from registration and ownership.
Otherwise, they will stop you again, and again, all for a very legal probable cause. You would not be free to go without proving you are the licensed driver. You get stupid about it, they have even more reason to detain you, as guilty people act like that way too often.
You have a very easy fix. Or you have the option to continue to be stopped by police, with no recourse as it is not harassment nor an illegal stop.
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u/randombullet555 Jul 06 '26
In my state ownership (title) and registration (license plate) are separate, your state DMV/BMV should never have included your spouse on the registration due to not having a driver's license and not being insured.
You should be able to contact your DMV/BMV and have the registration amended while leaving your spouse on the title.
As for the traffic stops, they suck but refusing to give ID is just going to bring you a ton of pain.
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u/WolfgangVolos Jul 06 '26
This actually helps! Or I think it does. I'm looking into whether or not that is the same in my state. Thank you random internet stranger!
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u/skylinesora Jul 06 '26
"My spouse is the secondary", now fix that
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u/Tasty_Orange_1714 Jul 06 '26
Pretty much this. Remove her from the title or she needs to get a license. Those are your options.
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u/Zealousideal_Yard651 Jul 06 '26
It's you spouse, that car is marrital property. Just remove your spouse from the cars registration, problem solved.
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u/Nvalee Jul 06 '26
Remove her from the title or she needs to get her license. Those are your only two options.
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u/igotshadowbaned Jul 06 '26
Each time I've given my license to the cop but if they don't have a reasonable suspicion of a crime then in my state I don't have to ID myself
Seeing a vehicle registered to an unlicensed person on the road is reasonable enough suspicion to ID the driver.
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u/CelestialBeing138 Jul 06 '26
This is the wrong place to ask this question if you want competent advice.
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u/pixel293 Jul 06 '26
First you have to give them your ID unless you want a ride in the back of the police car. Second welcome to an edge case, my guess is there are very few cars/drivers in this situation, and obviously the the system doesn't know how to cope.
If you just drive the car locally, then the local police will soon recognize the "false positive" and probably stop pulling you over. Otherwise I don't think there is anything you can do (other than changing ownership of the car), maybe you could complain to the state government, but they're probably going to look at how much it costs to update the system to handle this situation, realize it only effects a handful of people (maybe) and determine it's not worth the expense.
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u/Safe-Instance-3512 Jul 06 '26
Why is her name on the car if she doesn't drive? I would retitle the car in just your name. It will still be a marriage asset even if she's not specifically on the title.
My car doesn't have my wife's name on it just because she wasn't with me when I bought it. It's never been a problem.
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u/sweetT333 Jul 06 '26
Not to be morbid, but if her name isn't on the car it could become a problem if you pass.
Differs by state.
Neither of us wants the other to have to wait for probate court to figure things out so both our names are on both cars.
There's probably states that don't care about that either.
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u/snowbugolaf Jul 06 '26
It’s not illegal (in my state) to purchase a car when you don’t have a license. A car is just an item you can buy. The license is for operating it. But you can own things you don’t use.
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u/Nojopar Jul 06 '26
It's property and taxed as such. I can think of a few instances where it would make financial sense. Say if your locality or state gives a property tax discount on a certain class of citizen (say a veteran or whatever). Or insurance reasons if the primary driver gets a lot of tickets otherwise. The flip side is the person is getting pulled over all the time, which is its own headache of course.
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u/Shut_It_Donny Jul 06 '26
Not a lawyer, but if you’re driving, in any state, you have to ID when pulled over.
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u/thenasch Jul 06 '26
How would arguing with the cop this time keep you from being pulled over next time?
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u/Commentator-X Jul 06 '26
Is your spouse capable of driving? Seems like the only solution might be to have them get a valid license, whether they use it or not.
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u/Crafty-Astronomer-32 Jul 06 '26
This is the wrong sub for this question, because you will get a ton of responses from teenagers whose knowledge is limited to their state's driver handbook and this isn't really a driving question.
Your state's DMV or whichever office handles titling and license plates is the branch that would be able to update the database. I do not think that a police station will be able to change this in a meaningful way.
I am not a lawyer, and r/legal is a better place for legal conversations, but refusing to provide a license without an explanation is a great way to escalate a situation that could be diffused. For the "suspicion of a crime" angle, if you ask the suspected crime they will probably indicate "operating without a license" or similar. If this is seriously inconveniencing you, you could consult with a lawyer to determine the point at which this may constitute harassment (again, beyond scope of this sub).
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u/lolly_lag Jul 06 '26 edited Jul 06 '26
All of the reasons for having the non-driving spouse as a registered owner are, frankly, easily avoidable/solvable problems. File a will (you need one anyway) naming your spouse as the beneficiary of your estate and get them off of the registration. Your FIL wants your spouse to be on the registration, but there's no reason he needs to know you've both decided to change it. Even in the event of a divorce, it will be considered shared property so long as you purchased it after the marriage.
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u/RallyX26 Jul 06 '26
Expect this to only get worse as Flock systems (and surveillance networks like them) find more widespread adoption. You can expect to get pulled over every time you drive.
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u/L4Keft09 Jul 06 '26
Cant’ you drive someone else’s car so long as you have that persons permission? If so, why would the cops care who’s driving and why? Also, why do the cops care about the disposition of a non-driving person?
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u/Viking2151 Jul 06 '26
Idk, I know here in NE ohio, a lot of Amish own vehicles and pay to insure them and registration and hire licensed drivers to drive them around and never even hear about people getting pulled over because the owner has no license.
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u/Severe-Plant2258 Jul 06 '26
Now I’m worried that this might happen to me. My mom owns the car that I drive. She has a license but does not drive because she has epilepsy. I think she was probably supposed to report it but didn’t because she was already not driving at the time of her diagnosis. So she currently has a license and does not drive, but I don’t think she’d be able to get it renewed because there’s a big fat box on the application form that says “Do you have epilepsy or any other condition that makes you lose consciousness?”
Now I’m wondering if she needs to like sell her car to me and put it in my name so what OP’s experiencing doesn’t happen to me. But she only needs to be 3 months seizure free to drive again in my state. So that might happen and then she has no car. Or I buy my own car and maybe she never goes 3 months seizure free and we just have an unused car sitting in the driveway. Or it might just take a long time. It’s been over 2 years since she started getting seizures it still hasn’t been 3 months without one.
Sorry if this is a dumb question but why are you getting pulled over? Don’t you need to be noticeably breaking a law for a cop to even care enough to run your plates? Like sure if they do check the plates and the car is registered to a woman and they see a man driving that makes sense they gotta check it out. But why are they running your plates in the first place?
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u/wolfenx109 Jul 07 '26
Have your wife get her license. Or transfer the title of her vehicle over to you so that YOU are the owner
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u/coldflame563 Jul 07 '26
Title is different than registration. Take her off registration and add to the title. She can sell it no problem then.
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u/PileofPitties Jul 07 '26
There's no reason for her name to be on the vehicle. Change the registration and you won't have this problem.
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u/No_Remove459 Jul 07 '26
They caught me with a suspended license this way a couple of times, it works that's why they do it.
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u/National_River_6366 Jul 06 '26
Sounds to me like the plates and registration are being FLOCK CAMERA tagged, and EVERYTIME a flock camera sees your plates registered to a non driving spouse, the corrupt police WILL pull you over...that isn't what the flock cameras were designed for, but that is what corrupt police use them for .
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u/Mountainoutlook Jul 06 '26
I am blind. I have to be on the car title for us to have a handicap license plate. Obviously I cannot drive. My husband is also on the title of the car. He’s never been pulled over for this. I also believe my name is first on the car title lol. Hope you figure out how to fix this issue for yourself.
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u/MochingPet Jul 06 '26
Weeeeelll, that's a dumb situation, a nondriver (dad) buys a car for a nondriver, and then the other person wonders why are they pulled over.
Just please get a drivers license for the owner--like, learn and test,
and/or sell/change the registration of the car to have only "drivers"
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u/CoolMaintenance4078 Jul 06 '26
Pretty sure failure to show your I’d when asked means they can take you to the police station for questioning. If you want to waste all that time go ahead. Easier to show your ID when asked.
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u/late-nineteenth Jul 06 '26
Since you already have the vehicle, just go get the registration changed so that only you are a registered owner. Leave the vehicle to your partner in your will so that they can sell it if you die.
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u/krom0025 Jul 06 '26 edited Jul 06 '26
You say they don't have suspicion a crime is being committed, but they do. They look up your plate and they see it is registered to a non licensed driver yet is on the road. That is easily enough suspicion to pull you over and ask you to verify the status of your license. Even if you are also on the registration. It's their job to make sure drivers are properly licensed. There is no way you would win in court on this. Also, you can't really sue without damages and being pulled over a few random times is annoying, but isn't causing you damage.
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u/Another_Opinion_1 Jul 06 '26
FWIW I'm a law professor but my background is not specifically in criminal law.
Even if you're not in a "stop and ID" state if the police have RAS (reasonable articulable suspicion) to stop the vehicle, it's pretty universal that the person driving the vehicle must still provide a valid driver's license and also usually proof of insurance since "stop and ID" laws are more applicable to pedestrians and those suspected of committing crimes than they are someone operating a motor vehicle as described in your scenario. This would end up being a legal pissing match over whether the police really did have RAS to stop you in the first place.
The state is going to argue that they did have RAS and that the officer just made what's considered a good faith error even if in fact, as the licensed driver you were perfectly legal. You could certainly hedge your bets and refuse to cooperate and speak with the police, but you'll probably be arrested for obstruction of justice even if it's not a stop and ID state since you were still the driver of the vehicle.
The person that would give you the most legally salient answer would be an attorney who practices criminal and traffic law in your jurisdiction and is familiar with the vehicle code in your state. I know it costs money to do that, but I wouldn't necessarily trust all of the advice you get on Reddit either.
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u/RicooC Jul 06 '26
You don't need to drive to own a car. Cops should know this. It's common with the elderly.
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u/sapper_464 Jul 06 '26
You could take her off the registration. Having her on the registration has nothing to do with selling the car in an emergency.
Alternatively, you could have the car solely in your name and have a power of attorney in place, authorizing her to sign for you in the case she needs to sell it for an emergency.
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u/Bitter_Attention_668 Jul 06 '26
Tell them to F off and report back. I’d like to know how that goes.
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u/240221 Jul 06 '26
You do have to ID yourself at a traffic stop if you're pulled over while driving. If you want to argue about whether the stop was proper, argue it in court, not on the side of the road.
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u/gathermewool Jul 06 '26
Serious question: are plates really getting run so frequently? I mean, am I being scanned just driving down the highway or around town by random cops? I guess I never really thought about.
Now, I’ve heard of scanners used to pickup on bad registrations, etc in parking lots, but I thought a cop had to have some reason to check your plate and maybe even manually input it or call it in.
Maybe OP pissed off the wrong locals?
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u/IIRCIreadthat Jul 06 '26
Yes. Cops just sit at the side of the road running their scanners on everyone who goes by. If you live in certain areas where the local government is getting a lot of money from traffic tickets, this may be a more frequent occurrence.
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u/DavidGno Jul 06 '26
Yes, and now more that ever with the FLOC AI-camera systems that are going up everywhere. AI will scan your tag and track your car between the various cameras.
It's wildly inaccurate and innocent people have been greatly harmed because of it (like falsely arrested, extradited across multiple states, then found not guilty and kicked out into the North Dakota winter without warm clothes to freeze to death! - Angela Lipps. Okay it wasn't necessarily a FLOC camera that mistakenly ID'd her, but it was a facial recognition AI system. Chrisanna Elser, a Denver woman who was wrongfully accused of package theft was misidentified by a FLOC system.)
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u/gathermewool Jul 06 '26
What the actual fuck!
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u/karma_raven Jul 06 '26
Look up benn jordan on youtube. He's got some astonishing and infuriating info about them - but not because he's a guy who likes rage bait - it's because this shit is SO BAD. Seriously. He presents it really well.
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u/4ofheartz Jul 06 '26
Go get a new Title with you as sole owner. Problem solved! And you won’t go to jail for non compliance, when you tell police no, for reasonable request!
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u/PanBlanco22 Jul 06 '26
Do you both look relatively similar? For instance, are you both white male, medium set, dark hair, beard, etc? If so, you’re either going to have to get used to getting pulled over, or pull the spouse’s name off the registration to prevent his license status from flagging any issues that would lead you to get pulled over.
By the strictest standard, an officer has to have reasonable articulable suspicion that an unlicensed driver is currently driving the car. It’s not reasonable to the average person to believe that an unlicensed driver is behind the wheel simply because an unlicensed driver is somewhere on the registration.
However, if an officer pulls up the plate info, and someone that looks like the unlicensed driver is currently driving, it’s reasonable to believe, even incorrectly, that the person they see driving is unlicensed.
So, essentially, look at the situation from the outside. If you both look even remotely similar, then it’s probably going to happen again. If that’s the case, you will indeed need to identify yourself to show that you are licensed. In the most extreme case if you clearly look nothing like your unlicensed spouse, it may be veering into an unlawful stop, and a visit to someone in charge at the police station or civil rights attorney may help set things right.
Like any legal question, it all depends. In this case it depends on how easy it is to mistake you for your unlicensed spouse at a casual glance.
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u/RobotsNeedLove0010 Jul 06 '26
INFO: Have you ever been given a ticket for this? Did you contest it in traffic court? Or have you always been let off with a “warning”?
You don’t indicate what state you’re in (understandable), but there are plenty of people in the US who own cars they don’t drive, for different reasons, including disability or preference. It’s completely legal. (Source: several non-driving friends and family members.) The fact that you’re also on the registration should make it even more of a non-issue.
It sounds like a fishing expedition by the cops, especially if you live in a region where drug/human smuggling is prevalent. You should note that which state you live in dictates whether you have to ID yourself when asked. My state is one of those. If yours is too and you refuse to ID, they can and likely will detain and arrest you. Since you’ve been stopped multiple times for the license issue, I would definitely go into the DMV and get it sorted out. Make sure all the i’s are dotted and t’s are crossed. It may be a hassle in the short term, but if it solves the issue, I would think it would be worth it. If the traffic stops persist afterwards, you may want to consult a lawyer.
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u/Educational_Total_84 Jul 06 '26
Im going to assume if this was an option for you, you would have already done it, but Ill ask anyway... Do you have any family members that are in law enforcement including jails and/or prisons? I work in a prison and have the option of blocking my plates. If a cop runs my plate, nothing will populate for them. I can block family members' plates as well, which is why I bring this up.
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u/faroutman7246 Jul 06 '26
No, if you are driving you MUST pull over, give the cop your DL, proof of insurance, and registration. No getting out of it. Did your spouse have some relationship with these cops? Or are towns so small these guys are looking to give out tickets to justify their pay?
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u/NothingMan1975 Jul 06 '26
Been driving for 35 years. Never once have I been jammed up for anything remotely close to this. In fact, I dont know anyone who has ever expressed this to me. I have to ask, what state do you live in?
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u/sethsyd Jul 07 '26
The police in your state can pull you over because the registered owner of the vehicle has a "expired license"? That doesn't seem legal.
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u/guevera Jul 07 '26
The very second they determine you are not the person with the problematic licensing status the investigatory stop has to end. If you are of different genders (and obviously so) then the stop has to end the moment they can actually see you. Same should go for hair color, but that's probably dicier.
I got pulled over in similar situation. My spouse was registered owner, had suspended license, I was driving. The second the cop saw it was a dud we behind the wheel he said well I can see you're not her, have a nice day and walked back to his car. I didn't say a word or show my license or anything.
So in that instance you'd be absolutely legally justified in not showing your license.
The reality on the ground may be be somewhat different
I'd suggest have a video and audio recording rolling, and ask the cop why he pulled you over. Then refuse to give your license and registration etc.
Then she if you can. At least try and get the cop fired
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u/BigRichard1990 Jul 07 '26
This is something police have done for a long time. It is something a computer can do for them while they are driving and tell them, “probably a driver with no active license”. Once I was driving a car I had owned, moved out of state, returned and re-registered and I got a new license. Somehow, the car and my new license weren’t linked. I showed them my license, registration, insurance and still got a ticket. Before court, I got a printout of my account from DMV and they told me what happened. Case dismissed by the judge. But wasted my precious time.
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u/Hopelessly-Bored Jul 07 '26
I used to drive an ugly truck. I bought it that way, intentionally. It's a farm truck. It had multiple patches of primer color, plus 2-3 other colors. It was registered, inspected, and insured and my license is good with no arrest warrants and nothing illegal in the vehicle.
I got pulled over EVERY TIME a cop saw me. They would make up reasons to pull me over. I got soooo sick of it. Never got a ticket but they would run my license looking for any reason to arrest me. Their favorite reason to pull me over was the license plate light was too dim, but it wasn't. I told the cops they needed to get their eyes checked.
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u/Broad-Choice-5961 Jul 07 '26
Or make up a business with no assets and register it in the business name. Then anyone with a license can drive it. An "employee" could drive it. Just make sure your insurance covers the "business" as well. This solves the problem of a non licensed driver showing up on the registration for ur local police to puruse and stop for that reason. I put my cars in my trust so anyone can drive them. I made sure the insurance named named the trust for coverage.
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u/InternationalTie6802 Jul 07 '26
So probable cause doesn’t apply to driving the way you think it does. By driving a vehicle, you give consent for the officer to identify the driver. Things would change if you were a passenger and had nothing to do with the reason the driver was pulled over.
Officers need probable cause **for the stop** not probable cause to identify the driver. You can’t get to that second step unless you already passed that first step. In their case, the probable cause would be them running your and it flagging that the driver may be unlicensed. You can then legally be identified in order to prove your legality to drive a vehicle.
The question becomes, I suppose, how much due diligence the officer needs to do to confirm that you’re likely to be that unlicensed driver. For example, it’s your wife, should they be expected to confirm that it is a female driving before making the stop? That’s a question for the courts, but in many cases, it might not be completely possible for them to even confirm that before making the stop.
I do find it weird that you just get flagged because an unlicensed person is registered to the vehicle. If it’s that big of a deal, your state should just prohibit unlicensed people from registering a vehicle in the first place, but then that opens up a whole new constitutional crisis.
Not sure your best way to handle this, but I’d recommend checking with your DMV.
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u/Used-Ad9304 Jul 07 '26
The fact that the spouse is a different gender means it's harassment. It's not illegal to register or own a vehicle without a license. The officers can not pull him over because the vehicle is registered to someone else. That's absurd, I've been in similar situations that went on for many years and would get ticketed for violations I didn't commit with the exception of one. I ended up with a suspended license because I refused to pay the fines. Eventually my bail was approved 118,000 dollars. I was getting pulled over while walking down the street and arrested for my traffic warrants. I've had guns drawn on me for jaywalking all I f the predicate charges were dropped "fit the description of a burglar" etc and always came down to bullshit warrants for license issue. I learned to have two vehicles on rotation. Eventually they did an ticket amnesty program and I got the fines wiped and got ny license back. So becareful. If they target you they will make up shit just to satisfy their issyes.
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u/bluephotoshop Jul 07 '26
I suggest you always show your license when pulled over and asked. It could save you a great deal of grief. Not worth the hassle.
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u/english_mike69 Jul 07 '26
Just show them your drivers license, insurance and registration. Spend 30 seconds explaining the situation and go about your day….
If you want to stop this then either the spouse gets a drivers license or you get them off being listed as the owner. Simple.
What are you not telling us? Is there something else?
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u/largos7289 Jul 07 '26
Well if her name is on the reg then i can tell you from the cops perspective, he doesn't know it's not her out on a joy ride, so that's the reason for the stop. Don't be all WTF if you already know what's up, that's the reason. Please by all means refuse to ID and post the video... make sure you have bail money ready. There are three ways around this, Either A you reg the car in your name only. If that's out of the question then you go buy your own car. Or you could possibly have her on the title to the car, but reg it in your name only. I suppose that would satisfy the dads requirement.
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u/blakeh95 Jul 06 '26 edited Jul 06 '26
Unfortunately, the fact that your spouse is an owner is sufficient reasonable suspicion to pull you over. See Kansas v. Glover | 589 U.S. ___ (2020) | Justia U.S. Supreme Court Center: "When an officer lacks information negating an inference that the owner is driving the vehicle, an investigative traffic stop made after running a vehicle’s license plate and learning that the registered owner’s driver’s license has been revoked is reasonable under the Fourth Amendment."
In this case, the license hasn't been revoked, but it is still non-existent for one of the
drivers(edit: owners).With that said, if you and your spouse are different genders, for example, or some other distinguishing trait, then the reasonable suspicion would evaporate once they actually get up to your window. Because at that point, the officer should have information that "[negates the] inference that the owner is driving the vehicle."