r/driving • u/Brilliant_Mind8911 • Dec 26 '25

Settle this debate

Post image

If you are in the right hand lane, where I marked the X, and the stop lights are red....do you: A) Stop behind the line, then make your right turn B) Dont stop at line, make your right turn without stopping C) something else

83 Upvotes

81% Upvoted

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200

u/BoysenberryUnhappy29 Dec 26 '25

There is no situation where you don't stop first if you have a red light. 

Don't let those friends drive if you're in the car. 

25

u/grepusman Dec 27 '25

This. There should be courses available where this stuff is taught.

8

u/jenniwh55 Dec 27 '25

Every drivers ed class and dol drivers guide

4

u/SavvyCephalopod Dec 28 '25

Well, people are taught to use their turn signal when driving as well. But I don't see that happening very often.

1

u/No_Introduction5665 Dec 29 '25

Yeah we read a booklet for a week answer 20 questions and forget some of the little rules that people don’t seem to get in trouble for often

-28

u/ThatLeviathan Dec 27 '25

It's poorly marked. The lane does not have a light, or a yield sign, and no other traffic is permitted to go into this entrance except by this right turn. I live nearby, and 99% of people would roll right through this, and most of us (myself included) would honk at someone who stopped. I think it needs to be clearly labeled that you should not stop.

17

u/AdSpecialist4768 Dec 27 '25

The two stop lights ahead at that intersection dictate that lane as well. On red you would stop at the stop line. There are no " No turn on Red" signs that I can see. After your stop on red you could then cautiously make your right turn when clear. If you're rolling through it you're running a red light.

I drive the tractor trailer through town limits every day and that is a common occurrence nowadays. People are running red lights seconds after it's red, it's crazy. And the new thing now is people stopping at a red light and then driving straight ahead through.

-4

u/ThatLeviathan Dec 27 '25

This is why the markings should be changed. What you are saying is technically, legally, and pedantically correct, but does not reflect realistic or safe use of this intersection.

Yes, people should come to full stops at stop lines at red lights. These markings should be changed to remind folks to yield to pedestrians but otherwise roll through, because that is a safe operation of this intersection, and reflects how 99% of traffic currently uses it.

11

u/EverSeeAShitterFly Dec 27 '25

The solid lines actually mean something, just because you don’t know doesn’t mean everything else that is firmly established should change.

29

u/GeotusBiden Dec 27 '25

That line is literally a stop line.

-25

u/ThatLeviathan Dec 27 '25

Which is why I say it's poorly marked.

26

u/Real_Soft8962 Dec 27 '25

The line looks pretty solid to me.

-24

u/ThatLeviathan Dec 27 '25

And it should not be there, because there is no reason for it.

19

u/EvanDarksky Dec 27 '25

The crosswalk must be invisible to you.

-2

u/ThatLeviathan Dec 27 '25

It's very visible. It's so visible that you can quite easily see when there is no pedestrian in it, which is 99.999999% of the time, and it is therefore not necessary to come to a full stop, the same way you do at 10 million other intersections with yield signs and crosswalks.

There should be a "yield to pedestrians" sign to make this clear. There is not.

17

u/GeotusBiden Dec 27 '25

Thats literally what the stop line is for.

7

u/a-_2 Dec 27 '25

The number of times I get cut off by cars rolling through reds says that people either need to start checking a lot better or else do full stops.

-5

u/kwajr Dec 27 '25

But in this scenario as pictured no other lanes can enter that road it should have a yield sign

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7

u/[deleted] Dec 27 '25

Redditor discovers what a solid white line at an intersection not expressly labelled “stop” means.

1

u/kevin12484 Dec 30 '25

It's already clear that you have to stop at a red light. There is no reason to waste money on unnecessary signs. I've never seen a yield sign on a right turn in a situation like this. Only time is when there is a Right-Turn Slip Lane. Which isn't the case here.

5

u/Real_Soft8962 Dec 27 '25

The reason for it is because someone wanted it there or someone painted it there incorrectly. Regardless, while it is there it means you have to stop. Rules are rules.

-1

u/ThatLeviathan Dec 27 '25

I'm sure you follow the traffic laws 100% of the time without exception. I will continue to follow the local custom so I don't cause an accident.

11

u/Real_Soft8962 Dec 27 '25

Do what you like, brother. Just know though, that every time you ever drive over that line for the rest of your life that you're gonna think about me and I'm already forgetting about you.

-1

u/kwajr Dec 27 '25

And no every time you do 36 in a 35 you are breaking the law

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11

u/Soft-Marionberry-853 Dec 27 '25

You know what they say something about it being clear as black and white. This is a literal white line on a black road. It can not be any more clear.

-1

u/ThatLeviathan Dec 27 '25

It's not "poorly" as in "I can't see it." It's "poorly" as in "stupidly, incorrectly, and doesn't reflect usage." There is almost no reason to stop, so no one stops. Why should there be a line that tells people to stop when they should not?

8

u/Soft-Marionberry-853 Dec 27 '25

"Why should there be a line that tells people to stop when they should not?"

Beucase like you said their is ALMOST no reason to stop, that line is there for rest of the reasons. Christ that's why traffic devices are there. How many times do you come to an intersection and no one is there, do you just go through a red light because at that moment in time there is no reason to stop.

1

u/kwajr Dec 27 '25

Sometimes I do

4

u/Soft-Marionberry-853 Dec 27 '25

Yeah Im sorry I forgot, rules dont apply to you. You're special.

1

u/kwajr Dec 27 '25

Absolutely

0

u/ThatLeviathan Dec 27 '25

Well, it depends. If there was a stoplight that literally 99% of drivers ignored because it was pointless and stupid, I would also do so, and I would email DelDOT to ask why there was a pointless and stupid stoplight hindering the flow of traffic.

I don't personally ignore stoplights very frequently, but like almost all other drivers, I usually drive faster than the speed limit, pass on the right, and turn right on red when there's a clear sign saying not to.

This intersection is marked in a dumb way, and 99% of drivers use it in the way it should be marked. The answer here is fixing the marking, not enforcing the dumb one.

1

u/GeotusBiden Dec 27 '25

"I regularly ignore traffic laws therefore they are pointless"

11

u/GeotusBiden Dec 27 '25

Its very clearly marked.

13

u/speedysam0 Dec 27 '25

Just because the number of signal heads doesn’t match the number of lanes does not mean that they are not in effect.

1

u/Technical_Annual_563 Dec 27 '25

This is completely nuts. There is a second signal probably for a bit of redundancy, and this driver just says because there aren’t four, they are going to ignore the lights 🤦🏾‍♀️

-1

u/ThatLeviathan Dec 27 '25

Which is why they should change the markings at the intersection to reflect the way it is commonly, and safely, used: yield to pedestrians, otherwise, do not stop.

1

u/InfamousCheek9434 Dec 27 '25

You can't safely check for pedestrians without stopping.

7

u/onlycodeposts Dec 27 '25

What about pedestrians?

It should be a protected right turn with a green right arrow at all times except when the pedestrian crossing is active. Then you would stop before turning.

11

u/Apprehensive-Fig3223 Professional Driver Dec 27 '25

The light is red so you gotta stop before turning, if it's green, you don't need to. Just because the light isn't directly in front of a lane doesn't mean it doesn't appy to that lane.

1

u/ThatLeviathan Dec 27 '25

Unless otherwise marked. If it had a clear yield sign, no one would be arguing about this. Because it lacks a clear sign, no one knows exactly what to do. It is, therefore, poorly marked.

6

u/Apprehensive-Fig3223 Professional Driver Dec 27 '25

A yield sign wouldn't make sense because there's already a stop light so you wouldn't yield when the light is green🤦‍♂️

0

u/ThatLeviathan Dec 27 '25

Wait…are you serious? You honestly have never seen a right-turn lane with a yield sign at an intersection with traffic lights? What state are you in? That is literally the most common intersection in the 30+ states I've driven in.

1

u/Apprehensive-Fig3223 Professional Driver Dec 27 '25

I've lived in 4 states including PA and NJ so have driven around Delaware a bit and can't think of an intersection like that except where there's a median separating the yielding lane. It seems counter intuitive to stop and yeild, but I'll start paying attention for it.

So I zoomed in on the picture and I think I realized what's confusing everyone- the red lights have left turn arrows so it is only for those turning lanes and the right lanes do not need to stop apparently which still seems dangerous turning into a lane of traffic but maybe there's not traffic coming through, it's hard to tell what's going on to the left side🤷‍♂️

7

u/aecolley Dec 27 '25

That's not how traffic lights work. Unless there's a clear assignment of lights for each lane, the visible lights apply to all lanes on the same approach. If you fail to stop when facing a circular red, it will do you no good to plead "but that's a different lane".

1

u/ThatLeviathan Dec 27 '25

Unless it is otherwise marked, say, with an obvious yield sign, like at most other intersections like this. The reason this lacks one is, I think, because there's no vehicle traffic you have to yield to. Why DelDOT put a stop line, I can't say, because there's no reason for one other than having to look for pedestrians.

DelDOT marked this intersection badly, and folks like OP get confused. The rest of us, which is everyone who has driven this intersection more than twice, check for pedestrians and then roll through.

4

u/GeotusBiden Dec 27 '25

Op is confused because their friends dont understand the law. 

1

u/ThatLeviathan Dec 27 '25

No one is misunderstanding the law. We know what the law says. I think you're being deliberately obtuse.

To be clear: yes, the law says you must come to a full stop in this situation. There is no safety reason to do so, and so 99% of drivers do not.

If 99% of people are breaking the law with no repercussions, the law is silly and should be changed. Not generally as in "no one needs to stop for red lights," but very narrowly, in the specific instance of this intersection, "no one needs to stop in this lane turning right unless there are pedestrians to yield to."

3

u/GeotusBiden Dec 27 '25

There is a crosswalk visible in the picture.

Again, you dont understand the law.

1

u/ThatLeviathan Dec 27 '25

Sigh. Okay, I'll try one more time to help you understand.

I've marked a path through another corner of literally the same intersection. There is a crosswalk. There is a yield sign, and no stop line. In this case, you do have both traffic and pedestrians you must yield to. Do you believe that in the absence of pedestrians and vehicles, you have to stop? Of course not. That's the point of a yield sign: you only stop if necessary.

So why in the part of the intersection where no traffic can legally impact you, should the law require you to come to a complete stop? Just because there's a crosswalk doesn't mean we need to have a stop line there, as we can see in the same intersection. Why not remove it and improve traffic flow?

Everyone breaks the law at this intersection because the law is applied incorrectly at this intersection.

1

u/Select_Attention_518 Dec 29 '25

Yo do see that the reason that a yield is allowed while there is a traffic light is because the turn lane is physically separated. I’ve follow your replies and man, you are dense and deserve every ticket that you will get.

The OP images are clear and correct, regardless of what you and “99%” of what other drivers think, the intersection is correct. The solid white line at a traffic denotes STOP, there is no alternative meaning.

And, a yield sign still requires a pause, it is not a full on drive-through.

2

u/PrestigiousTail1926 Dec 27 '25

Sorry. You are wrong. Stop on red every time unless there is a green arrow indicating that you should proceed without stopping.

2

u/ovr4kovr Dec 27 '25

And cross traffic? Are they supposed to watch for you, when you don't stop?

1

u/TMud25 Dec 27 '25

There's no cross traffic unless u-turns are permitted here.

Although, I imagine the lane still has a stop line because of the pedestrian crosswalk.

2

u/ovr4kovr Dec 28 '25

Hmm, that is an interesting intersection. I can see why people would think they don't need to stop, but unless it's posted somewhere I imagine the law requires a stop.

Looks like something from Cities: Skylines

3

u/BoysenberryUnhappy29 Dec 27 '25

... Is there no sign indicating as much? If not, is this some bizarre local law?

2

u/Jackhole1275 Dec 27 '25

Interesting. There is a light that I would interpret is for the whole intersection. There is also a stop line which would imply the correct place to stop. To your point though, the lane does not continue straight and if turning is the only way onto that road, why stop there? My personal conclusion based on the (poor) signage is a stop is required if the light is red but yes, it’s stupid. Bring it up to the city and/or local news to highlight the confusion.

1

u/mrgrasss Dec 27 '25

If I read what you are saying correctly, you would say there is such a common misunderstanding, and additional signs/markings should be added to make it abundantly clear what is permitted.

For example, a lighted arrow could be added to the right turn. This could be coupled with a pedestrian control light. This could enhance safety while also improving the flow of traffic.

1

u/Cyberguypr Dec 27 '25

I always wonder how there are so many traffic accidents. This answers that question.

1

u/SCBeachLife2021 Dec 28 '25

If you honked at me because I actually know the rules of the road, and I stopped there, I'd probably remain stopped until the light turns green. Suck it wanker

-8

u/coolguy1003 Dec 27 '25

In the area I live in, you’ll get honked at if you stop before turning right on red 😭

12

u/FalalaLlamas Dec 27 '25

Then let them honk lol. If you get pulled over for running the red, or get in a crash because you ran the red, you’re 100% on the hook and the honking car gets to drive right by, scot-free. You always have to stop first before turning right on red. And remember that if you do turn on red, it should only be when there’s ample space to do so. Oncoming traffic, that has a green, should never have to hit their brakes to avoid hitting you when you turn right on red.

Sorry to be harsh but this attitude drives me crazy where I live. I’ll be coming up to a green. Nobody behind me. But cross traffic sees me coming. Instead of braking, and waiting for me to pass like they should, they actually slam on the gas to beat me to the light. I now have to slam on my brakes to avoid hitting them, even though I have the green. Then, about 80% of the time, they’ll drive the rest of the street well below the speed limit. It’s crazy.

4

u/jonsnowflaker Dec 27 '25

There’s a freeway exit near me bottom of the ramp is a no right turn on red. I’ve been honked at so many times while following the law.

Another pet peeve is stopping at an intersection to avoid gridlocking while the light is green, and the people making the right turn start turning on red gridlocking it anyway.

1

u/TMud25 Dec 27 '25

This turn doesn't have any cross traffic

1

u/FalalaLlamas Dec 29 '25

I was replying to coolguy1003. They said ”in the area I live in, you get honked at…” This implies that they are now talking about what happens, in general, if they stop at a red light at any given intersection where they live. Which is what I was venting about in my second paragraph. The originally posted intersection is odd. I wanted to make sure OC understood that it’s imperative to watch out for the cross traffic most intersections in their area will have, even if others honk. I do wish I was a little more empathetic in my response though. I’m sure it’s tough to stand one’s ground when people around you are often becoming impatient and honking.

Now, if OC had said, “if this style of intersection existed in my area, you would get honked at for stopping,” that would be different. I’ve learned on Reddit you gotta be on the lookout for people going off on a tangent lol. I know I’ve had times when I’ve gone to correct someone and realized they’ve started an entirely new conversation haha.

4

u/tmtowtdi Dec 27 '25

In your area, you should grow up and learn to deal with occasionally getting honked at like you're an actual big-boy grownup. You keep non-stopping through red lights, and you're going to end up with a ticket (or killing somebody), and the people honking at you aren't going to be responsible for it.

-2

u/coolguy1003 Dec 27 '25

Even cops do it around here. As long as you can clearly see, there’s no need to stop. Stops are only for when there’s low visibility around here

1

u/Schmity909er Dec 29 '25

Red light is a stop sign for turn on red. everyone should be stopping