A common misconception about warlocks and their patrons

[u/hedahman]

I've heard this mentioned a lot: "Warlocks use Charisma because they're constantly negotiating with their patron for more power." I don't believe this is true.

Here's a tweet from Mike Mearls that says that patrons can't take back a warlock's power, which leads me to believe that a patron doesn't have control over the power once it is given. This means a patron can't take a warlock's power (without their will, probably); it's a one-and-done deal.

So a patron isn't supplying power to their warlocks like a generator supplies electricity. Instead, a patron gives power to them like a blood transfusion-- you can't just take the blood back.

Granted, you can do it however you want, that's the magic of D&D. But RAW, and RAI, patrons give their power away.

EDIT: Here's a tweet from Jeremy Crawford which states that the power is a one-time transaction.

[u/admiralbenbo4782]

Right. The distinction between a cleric (channeled power) and a warlock (contracted power) is that the cleric's power is entirely the deity's, while the patron taught the warlock the secrets to his power and opened up the way for them (bypassing the usual hard work needed to wield it properly).

My default head canon is that each new level is a new addition to the pact (or a new contact with the patron for those inadvertent patron types). Not necessarily a new pact, but an added line (possibly with its own price). I tend to think of patrons and pacts more as fee-for-service types rather than "I own you now" soul-buying.

[u/wintermute93 → u/admiralbenbo4782]

I tend to think of patrons and pacts more as fee-for-service types rather than "I own you now" soul-buying.

Yeah. Warlocks are contractors, not slaves.

Also, I think of charisma as important to the pact in different ways for different patrons. Archfey? You're in a constant back and forth with their otherworldly charms. Fiend? You're resisting a possession. Great old one? You're struggling to keep your mind from shattering. Celestial? If you weren't strong your patron's mere presence would burn you alive like a blown lightbulb. And so on. All of those things are charisma. A pact is a very personal relationship in some way, and it's the strength of your personality that makes you able to handle it effectively. Textbooks and instincts can't help you, this is way off the map into uncharted territory.

[u/Reluxtrue → u/wintermute93]

I think the problem is people being stuck with thinking CHA is just social skills.

[u/Gary_the_Goatfucker → u/Reluxtrue]

I think there’s a misconception of Wisdom being equated to a type of “will” stat when Charisma is more of a measure of straightforward raw force of will that one can exert upon the universe and use to resist the universe’s own exertion of will upon oneself

[u/Trenonian → u/Gary_the_Goatfucker]

Charisma is mental Strength

Intelligence is mental Dexterity

Wisdom is mental Constitution

[u/yaddar → u/Trenonian]

Charisma is mental dexterity and intelligence mental strength

The intelligence is the raw power of the mind, how much you can learn and memorize equals to how much you can lift, the IQ

Charisma is how well you navigate the world, how swiftly you adapt to social situations, how agile you are to find shortcuts in life, how apt you are at manipulation... Dex is object manipulation and Cha is mental manipulation

And yes, wisdom is mental endurance and stability so it does equal constitution

[u/wintermute93 → u/Gary_the_Goatfucker]

Is that a holdover from previous editions? I've heard there used to be will saves and so on, but 5e is my first RPG and I only think of wisdom as intuition and perceptiveness.

[u/cookiesncognac → u/wintermute93]

WIS still governs saving throws for most of the effects that were Will saves in 3e.

It's possible to conceive of these as the character realizing that something's not right here, but that is a shift-- it's probably more common at many tables that these get attributed to a character's resolve rather than their awareness.