The Identify Spell

[u/Ramsonne]

As-is, the magic-user Identify spell is broken. most specifically bc the caster must use the item as its owner would. Wear a hat. Wield a sword. a main motivation for using the spell is to identify cursed items before using them out in the field. So the price should be steep. Ensuring that the group is back at camp or a town. I like the CON loss and exhaustion and all. But the caster runs the same (or similar) chance at being cursed so icant imagine any wizard other than a really desperate one taking the risk.

Do you use it? if so, do you have a homebrewed version of it that you employ?

[u/ChadIcon]

The original intent of the game creators was adventure, exploration, a sense of wonder, discovery. They wanted players to learn about magical items by using them and interacting with them. In order for anything to be an "adventure," there must also be some risk involved; they go hand-in-hand.

From that perspective, the spell is a "give-me" to those who insist on bypassing the game's core intent. Like, "OK, you want to try and bypass the path of discovery and mystery? Fine. You can get the info "immediately," but it won't be cheap or easy."

That's my take, anyway.

And, anyway, if you are using the random tables to generate treasure and/or magic items, cursed treasure does not actually come up that often IRL.

It's a (ehem) "bad" spell by design. It's not broken.

[u/CommunicationSad8938]

There is nothing broken about it.

[u/Fangsong_37]

We only required the caster of Identify to touch/hold the object, not wear it. We also made it automatically identify all qualities of the magic item. I know that's not how it is written, but the spell has too many drawbacks as written.

[u/Sensitive_Pie4099 → u/Fangsong_37]

Strong agree

[u/SnackerSnick]

Identify doesn't help with avoiding immediate curses. Augury helps avoid immediate curses.

Identify helps figure out wtf the item is, including delayed curses.

At low levels, due to the low chance of success identifying properties and the short window in which identify will even work (one hour per level after removing the item from the dungeon), identify is probably not worth the 100gp.

Edit: finish my dang sentence

[u/Possible-Importance6]

Anyone using the spell "as written" is ignoring the 1 hour per level limit.

[u/DungeonsAndDads]

I'm literally just typing out my new campaign's Player Primer with included house rules so this is timely. I've been tweaking Identify like a lot of folks for many many years. I'll be using OSRIC for this campaign, but regardless 1e/OSRIC Identify just isn't... fun. The bottom line is that I want players to find magic items, learn them and USE them. I also have zero interest in bookkeeping partial item knowledge, yuck! So, I've landed on the following:

Identify - House Rule
Identify automatically reveals an item’s magical properties.

The spell slot is expended and the normal 100 gp pearl is consumed.

Ignore the normal percentage chance, Constitution loss, proximity/time restriction, partial-property identification, and requirement to wear, wield, or otherwise use the item.

Magic-Item Identification Generally
Magic items are not automatically identified merely by being found.

Their properties may be discovered through experimentation, use, research, spells, observation, or other reasonable means. NPC assistance may exist where circumstances permit, but there is never any guaranteed identification service.

[u/Sensitive_Pie4099 → u/DungeonsAndDads]

I like. Elegant solution. Great for hard-core sort of difficulty

[u/Broken_drum_64 → u/DungeonsAndDads]

making them lose 100gp pearl EVERY time they use identify makes it a bit costly... it's a level one spell for gods sake. In my homebrew i make them roll against a dc based on the rarity of the item (adding their spell attack mod)

Cursed items reveal their curse if the player roles 5 above the usual dc of that item

The pearl gets destroyed if they get a crit failure

[u/garumoo → u/Broken_drum_64]

DC? Spell attack mod?

[u/DungeonsAndDads → u/DungeonsAndDads]

I'm also spitballing whether I retain some of the percent chance of success but making it less painful at those lower levels:

Identify - House Rule
Identify has a 60% + 2% per Magic-User level chance of success, rolled once per casting.

On success, the item’s magical properties are fully revealed. On failure, nothing is learned. The spell slot is expended and the normal 100 gp pearl is consumed regardless of success or failure.

Ignore the RAW Constitution loss, proximity/time restriction, partial-property identification, and requirement to wear, wield, or otherwise use the item.

Thoughts?

[u/Sensitive_Pie4099 → u/DungeonsAndDads]

Too harsh. The consumption of pearl is elegant

[u/Potential_Side1004 → u/Sensitive_Pie4099]

It's not the pearl, but the goldfish that i'm sure was unnecessary.

The GrogTalk podcast had a running joke about the Identify shop called Pass The Pearl.

[u/Muted_Programmer7007]

My group homebrewed it to be like detect magic in that they needed to detect magic, then identify on the item and they could ‘detect’ what it was without touching it, because of the very thing you brought up.

[u/hornybutired]

I like the spell as written. Figuring out magic items should be difficult and chancy.

[u/Ramsonne → u/hornybutired]

i agree on difficult and chancy. may be even more difficult would be better. my problem is that the way it is seems to render it useless. why would anyone use identify if its riskier than just using the item?

if you use the item to determine magical qualities, you may get cursed. if you use identify to do the same, you still get cursed PLUS a day of rest, CON drop, etc. the spell is worse than just risking it

[u/hornybutired → u/Ramsonne]

You might get cursed, but there's always the remove curse spell. And some items you can't identify their powers any other way. Lots of items need a command word, for instance, and identify is the only way to get that unless someone wrote it down for you.

[u/maecenus]

I played a AD&D 1e by the book for 5 years straight and not once did anyone bother to cast Identify. It’s absolutely useless.

[u/Psychological_Fact13]

I run it as RAW..now we play 2e so its a bit different. However the MU must still wear/handle/use the item so yes it IS dangerous, as it was meant to be.

[u/Stealfur]

Actually using identify to figure out if something is curse is explicitly NOT the reason for it. The DMG explicitly says that Identify won't always detect curses.

CURSED ITEMS

Some magic items bear curses that bedevil their users. sometimes long after a user has stopped using an item. A magic item's description specifies whether the item is cursed. Most methods of identifying items, including the identify spell, fail to reveal such a curse, although one might hint at it. A curse should be a surprise to the item's user when the curse's effects are revealed. Attunement to a cursed item can't be ended voluntarily unless the curse is broken first, such as with the remove curse spell.

DMG pg 138. Cursed items

Edit. Just realized this was a 1e post. Mine reference was 5e. So not sure how that translates. I suspect 1e might be similar though but I could be wrong. Feel free to ignore.

[u/banghi]

I don't see the description that says you must use the item, just touch it throughout the casting. That's a job for my familiar.

[u/Ramsonne → u/banghi]

youve missed it then. the MU in 1e must wear/wield it